Two words for my fellow Americans...

[Tarayani]

You're welcome.

[AkashaCatBat]

Thank you.

 

Yay! Also, your sig has two of my favorite symbols,

[Guest S-K]

$30k per year on health insurance

your numbers are more than 10x off you can get it for 100/mo or less.

now take the highest number of 'uninsured' you can find then cut that in half (since those numbers are bogus).

 

now take out half of the remaining for those people that choose to spend their money on something other than insurance, like sony playstation, expencive cars, jewelery etc.

 

now take into consideration that many jobs offer co-pays (employer pays half'ish') and still some of people do not take it.

 

you have ,what, near a billion people in this country and a million that 'actually, really cant afford' insurance. And your suggestion is to have a complete overhaul of our economic system to something so horribly inefficient that the prices will soar and quality will fall for what is a relatively few people?

 

well before you answer, there is county and state programs in place that can deal with them already. so this does not need to be a federal issue.

 

if you are are still in doubt go to a VFW hospital (they are horrific). this is what will happen on a socialized medicine platform.

 

still in doubt? why would I think this way since I am one of the people that are uninsured??

[Grunker]

I just want to chip and say what the OP said: Thank you.

 

When you vote in America, you vote for all of us. I'm glad sense won this round

[yarpen]

When you vote in America, you vote for all of us. I'm glad sense won this round

Right. USA is so huge and powerful country (huh, how it sounds) that it defines rest of world. Just watch what happened when american banks had a problem with credits. We still feel consequences of that.

 

It doesn't matter what Europe thinks Choo Choo, you don't have to live here.

Bullshit - just had to write that. Described on the top of my post.

 

Black president of USA... that's quite amazing. I think that Obama is fine: he's great speecher, charismatic person and is far away from Bush as I think. "Far away from Bush" = good. McCain was trying to 'bribe' polonia in USA by talking 'bout removing WIZA between America-Poland, but that's unreal.

 

And life goes on.

 

PS. Will not even try to respond to J Beau. Huh, just have to say that Europe is not only France (described problem of Muslims). There are other countries. And yes, we're fine. But true, as Domi wrote that's not political/national forum. Hey ho let's go translating some stuff

[icelus]

$30k per year on health insurance

your numbers are more than 10x off you can get it for 100/mo or less.

Um, sure... if you're single and under 25.

 

you have ,what, near a billion people in this country and a million that 'actually, really cant afford' insurance.

Are you serious? You really think there are almost a billion people in the US? I think any credibility you want given to your other points evaporated by this one statement. The 2008 estimate for the population of the United States is around 305 million.

[Guest S-K]

your best argument is that I did not bother to look at the US census. that is weak, you did not reprimand TB when he was over 10 times off. besides if you want to get technical counselor, 'near' is, as you know, is not a specific

 

well I am 38 and a smoker of 23 years my guess is that it will be higher than 100/mo. but I chose to smoke. It is not my right for me to demand that you pay for that. however if you disagree I want a better vehicle too because my '94 S-10 is old and a new one is too expensive, oh, and a nicer a house 'cause this place is a dump, and I surely need that nintendo wii too, well, just because I do not have one.

 

if you really want to 'fix' health care look at why it is expensive. one and certainly not the only reason is lawyers and their frivolous law suits, that in turn raises insurance rates, effects drug prices (not that I am a fan of the drug companies) if one of their products causes cancer they get sued billions instead of putting that (frivolous portion) back in higher and longer testing... but no.

[icelus]

your best argument is that I did not bother to look at the US census. that is weak, you did not reprimand TB when he was over 10 times off. besides if you want to get technical counselor, 'near' is, as you know, is not a specific

 

Well, for starters, TheBigg isn't even American. But I bet he knows how many people live in Italy.

 

I don't consider overlooking 650 million people as qualifying for "near."

 

My point is that if you can't even be bothered to know how many people live in your own country (which is soooo easily done by putting a little effort into your research), then I really can't take any of your arguments seriously.

 

But you go right on ahead choosing which facts to use and which ones to ignore for your arguments. I honestly couldn't care less. I'm just a huge geography buff and Americans' lack of knowledge in that field really irks me.

[the bigg]

But I bet he knows how many people live in Italy.

Actually, I'd reply 150M if I was asked out of the blue, whereas it's 59M according to Wikipedia.

 

Of course, I know I'd have to check my numbers before posting

[Guest Guest]

your argument is still weak the percentage is still small even with .3 billion. you are focusing on the most unimportant part, is it because you can't actually challenge my real points?

is it a small percentage of people who truly cant afford HC? yes

does this need to be a federal issue when there is state and local in place already? no

will it be more expensive? yes

will it be lower quality? yes

why stop at health care? give me a government sanctioned nintindo wii

and it is your fault I smoked for 23 years? no

 

I love this country I hate seeing it getting weaker with every generation that passes. this country was founded on the "I can do it myself" attitude.

meaning we don't need a king, big brother or a federal gov. anytime things get a little rough.

[Jarno Mikkola]

does this need to be a federal issue when there is state and local in place already? no

will it be more expensive? yes

why stop at health care? give me a government sanctioned nintindo wii

and it is your fault I smoked for 23 years? no

-Then, may I ask why it's not locally taken cared of?

-And to whom is it more expensive?

-Well, if the "nintindo wii" is something that makes you able to work more than the average hours during the day/night, AND make you more happy than Ecstasy then why not, if it comes without the bad side effects, they will...

-And would it help the Nation if you still could do work after (1)75 years of smoking? Yes.

[Grunker]

will it be more expensive? yes

will it be lower quality? yes

why stop at health care? give me a government sanctioned nintindo wii

and it is your fault I smoked for 23 years? no

 

Just to point out your opinions are hardly facts:

 

will it be more expensive? yes

 

Danish, Swedish and French healthcare is cheaper on average than American, and they are all govermentfunded. On top of that, Denmark and France has more smokers than America.

 

will it be lower quality? yes

 

Sweden, France and England has some of the best healthcare in the world, surpassing the healthcare of the United States of America on almost all fields.

 

why stop at health care? give me a government sanctioned nintindo wii

 

Well, because society as a whole has an interest in the health of their nation, whereas the governmentfunded wii hardly gives any economic or social advantages that the whole of society can benefit from.

 

Thus, last year, Sweden and England had a workforce per citizen if compared to USA almost twice as big.

 

Bug, the economic advantage of a healthy population don't stop there. It is quite difficult today, to find an economy-proffesor who'll argue that healthcare and a healthy population overall isn't a fundamental requirement for a society. While it is true that few of these proffesors might argue that the market and the corporations can succesfully provide this, almost all agree that this is not the case in the US of A.

 

Plus, I'm hoping you can see the weakness of the wii-argument yourself. The same could be said about everything else: "Why only give me the security the police provides? I want a shiny new car on top!" or even better: "I like our military! Yay! With it, I know North Korea won't invade my country tomorrow! But, if we're gonna have an army, why not just throw in six armored tanks for every citizen on top of that?"

 

and it is your fault I smoked for 23 years? no

 

Nope. But any sociologist with respect for himself would argue that it is a huge problem for society if you're not treated.

 

 

Now, of course, you could just be pro-govermentfunded healthcare because you conscience demands it, because it's not fun to watch a mom being economically ruined having to pay for her childrens treatment, or, yeah, even say that maybe governmentfunded healthcare is a good idea since it has been a success in every fucking country that has it.

 

But, if that's not enough, governmentfunded healthcare is both a benefit for the individual, economically as well socially, while the same goes for society as a whole.

 

Who loses on governmentfunded healthcare? Well, the 2% of the population who has enough money to run their own hospitals... And that's about it.

[Guest Guest]

-it is. people are ignorant of the fact, would be my guess.

-everyone, that much should be oblivious.

-what?

-what?

the last 2 I don't know what you are even trying to say

[Icendoan]

Well, it depends how a government handles it, really. If you were to put a sustained 500Bn into healthcare, it is going to be pretty high quality, I would think.

 

will it be more expensive? yes

will it be lower quality? yes

why stop at health care? give me a government sanctioned nintindo wii

and it is your fault I smoked for 23 years? no

 

Why on earth would it be more expensive? In fact, should you look at it, I am sure you will find that if every single adult helps sustain healthcare, it will have a much lesser cost on the individual, while, as the same costs would be met as if it were as it is currently, the same standard.

 

Again, why a lowering of quality? Perhaps because more people will use it, but then it will cost everyone more, and, imo for the better. Quality would only be diminished by the doctors and other medical practitioners not doing there job properly, where they should be paid the same, and you can expect the same output. Medicine will cost no more than it does already. However, the only factor I can think that would lower quality without an obvious solution is overcrowding, which would already be a problem with the more popular hospitals.

 

Read what Grunker said, and I am sure it will be clear to you. He says merely that there are glaring flaws in that argument due to the interest only on the individual, not the whole. You could argue that medicine only helps one person at a time, to which I reply: hospitals as a whole help many, many people, and a doctor will treat more than a single person, which helps the whole, not the individual.

 

Should you choose to get a government funded arcade or similar, with things like the Nintendo Wii, sure, because anyone can go in and benefit from it, not just you. Which is far better. Also, that is more financially acceptable, as a Wii per household is more than 30-odd in one building.

 

Why should it be our fault that you smoked for 23 years? What are you trying to say here? If you want to harm yourself that way, sure. If you were just left to it, fine, but it would be better should you gain support for what you are doing, along with knowledge of the health risks, and how you can help. I wouldn't try to stop someone smoke if they knew everything about it and what it does to them.

 

-it is. people are ignorant of the fact, would be my guess.

-everyone, that much should be oblivious.

-what?

-what?

 

Maybe you are right, maybe you aren't, but having a localized burden is harder on that person, often driving people into bankruptcy. Would you have someone and their family starve for simply being ill? It isn't something you can blame on anyone, and certainly not an addiction. If someone starved due to a gambling addiction, sure, I can see why you can say it was their fault, but can you easily prevent illness? (IE, without paying for it).

 

-everyone, that much should be oblivious.

 

What do you mean? I assume you mean obvious instead of oblivious, as they mean different things.

 

As for the rest, well, don't construct an argument for it. Fine, you will only find that we don't really mind about it.

 

Icen

[Guest Guest]

wow lots to try to cover. note when I talk politics I do it in a calm and rational manner so if some of my points seem like I am upset I am not.

 

gunker:

Zimbabwe and Bangladesh probably has lower cost to health care too. so I wont bother with dealing with that.

 

the wii thing is me demonstrating absurdness by being absurd. when will this absurdness end? is exactly my point and thanks for agreeing.

 

the rest I am not sure if you are even on topic and swearing well that is not called for is it? are you really that upset?

 

Icen:

you seem to think and respond well, Ill try to answer.

 

more expensive? well there is all the added bureaucracy. the added red tape to just do a procedure, doctors that don't receive a paycheck commensurate to their performance, and since gov does not have to show a profit there will be waste. all these things will add to the price and the diminish the quality.

 

I have never been in a hospital for anything major in my adult life so I should be forced to pay for a hypochondriac? then if everyone goes just because now they can this too will raise prices. and that is not good at all.

 

again the local and state governments can handle the poor. this is how it works (I know first hand) if you make >$x you do one thing on the local level, if you make <x you go on to the state level. I forget the actual value of x.

 

do I really need to answer the starving question?? again state and local level.

 

heh yeah obvious.

 

look people, who would benefit the most from socialized medicine? someone like me?... yep.

 

politics are simple for me. I simply look at "does this infringe on my rights or others. yes or no.

your rights end where mine begin (this also applies in reverse)

 

so forcing someone to pay for others is an infringement.