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Armor Physical Resistances


Demivrgvs

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Demi, before you start implementing damage resistance bonuses, I think you should give a thought to balance breaking other mods. Rendering highly resistant enemy invulnerable imo is to be avoided like a plague.
Don't worry about that...it's caused by Yaga Shura wearing the Shuruppak's Plate, which is something I'm going to change because:

- how that little plate is supposed to fit a giant? I know this could be said for little races wearing human-sized armors in BG, but this is truly too much imo :)

- Yaga Shura's natural AC is extremely better than the protection granted by any armor in the game (-8 base AC) :)

- in vanilla the armor provided fire resistance...a fire giant was wearing a fire resistant armor :p

 

Btw, those hidden armor bonuses may be viewed in character's record page. And remember, that just like DEX and weapon styles the 'AC vs type' value doesn't count towards minAC=-20 limit. Meaning, you still can benefit from certain armor type even if your base AC is as low as -20. Small, but nice :p
I actually have nothing against them being "semi-hidden", I don't like the values at all though, and how they affect the game.

 

It may be even better imo if we can make it so that quarrels are considered missiles when dealing with AC bonuses (from shields and special abilities) but with piercing damage instead of missile damage (to make them more effective than arrows against medium and heavy armors), I'll look into it.
Change damage type in ext header. I'd also change throwing axes, spears and hammers to deal slashing, piercing and bludgeoning damage instead of missile.
It may be not so simple, I have to test if by doing it the engine will consider them "slashing, piercing and bludgeoning weapons" instead of "missile weapons". In that case I won't do such a thing because they would bypass "AC vs. missile" bonuses (e.g. sword and shield's style +4 AC).

 

I think the first one is better, since two weapons aren't much worse than shield in melee combat, same for staff. But against missiles it sucks, I think, so no AC bonus vs missile.
I already stated that parrying wouldn't have any effect against missile weapons (one more reason to test if changing quarrels damage is doable).

 

I personally would consider giving the parry bonus to 2h swords as well. Don't look at Claymore series (whoever has seen it), the true claymore was about 5-6 lb, incredibly light and fast, and most of larger 2h swords were hardly heavier than 8 lb (if any, can't remember). Bad thing, it'd make twohanders even more powerful than they already are, so balance wise it may be not an option.
IR's 2handed swords has been already tweaked to have a weight of 6lb (I know it's not a huge tweak, only few selected people care about these things, but I do :D ) and a few (like Carsomyr and Warblade +4) have a weight of 10-12. That being said, we would opt to not give a parrying ability to greatswords because of balancing issues exactly as you have suggested on a second thought. :p

 

When I was in Japan last April, I read that the reason that the Japanese never developed Plate Armour was because composite bow development reached a high level very early in Japan. So while the battle of Agincourt was the turning point in Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt (Plate Mail considered useless at best when facing English longbowman), the Japanese knew about this problem before investing in plate mail technology.
I love the "legendary" English longbowman, but more recent studies proved that those longbows had less chances to penetrate the best plates of that time than crossbows, and that the French heavy cavalry itself was the cause of its defeat. They were too numerous and because of their mass, the uneven terrain, and the mud, they stumbled into one another after the first casualties making themselves an easy prey and often killing/injuring one another in the charge impetus, trampling on the fallen comrades. Anyway this discussion (though interesting) won't help us very much. :p

 

My friend Sorrow who also was/is an maniac of fighting systems did very nice thing. Fully working system which gave to 2H swords and flails +2 to thaco against heavy armors and +5 to xbows. As in original PnP (or it was "Battles and Tactics Options" ? ).
Do you mean it's doable in BG, and without having to use in-game scripts?

 

And huh, I've found my own fighting system notes, but in polish. I will rewrite two descriptions, maybe ideas can be useful for some alternatives.
Yes, they can be useful. I see you already thought about parrying capabilities, and you did to flails exactly what I'm doing with IR making them heavier, slower, more damaging, and assigning them a penalty to parry (I still have to do the latter, but I would be for it :D ).

 

About armor physical resistances ... FYI I have such a mod at third beta release now. Probably will break if used with IR at the moment (double dex penalties killing people off), as I haven't tested that yet.

 

PM if you want to test and send feedback... :p

I have really no time to test your mod, sorry...if you wish to contribute to the discussion with what you come up for your mod you're welcome. It may even be possible that we'll do exactly what you wished for!
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It may be not so simple, I have to test if by doing it the engine will consider them "slashing, piercing and bludgeoning weapons" instead of "missile weapons". In that case I won't do such a thing because they would bypass "AC vs. missile" bonuses (e.g. sword and shield's style +4 AC).
I did it once long ago and it worked fine. But the point about AC is solid, that one I missed.

PS I mean - shields being unable to properly block thrown weapons.

 

I already stated that parrying wouldn't have any effect against missile weapons
Well, it seems I'm being incredibly distracted today. That's the third time already :)
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I also have one idea which can be very interesting. But maybe other-mods breaking, but with yours weidu ninja skills it can be easy to patch these items.

 

What do you think about changing "dex bonus to ranged weapons" into... "dex bonus to finesse weapons" which beside of bows, slings, crossbows include daggers, longswords, scimitars, katanas etc. (I think most of weapons which thieves can use can be nice)? Then low-strenght fighter (especially Kensais) really make sens in game. :)

 

Of course, that's quite difficult, some items should be revamped (these bracers of archery) but for me idea is good is good is goooood.

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I also have one idea which can be very interesting. But maybe other-mods breaking, but with yours weidu ninja skills it can be easy to patch these items.

 

What do you think about changing "dex bonus to ranged weapons" into... "dex bonus to finesse weapons" which beside of bows, slings, crossbows include daggers, longswords, scimitars, katanas etc. (I think most of weapons which thieves can use can be nice)? Then low-strenght fighter (especially Kensais) really make sens in game. :)

 

Of course, that's quite difficult, some items should be revamped (these bracers of archery) but for me idea is good is good is goooood.

I think that would have to involve scripting, which we are trying to avoid currently. We could modify all items that grant DEX bonuses to give bonuses to these weapons (if that alone would suffice), but to make a reliable 'X DEX = Y THAC0' tweak, we'd probably have to edit the scripts of every creature in the game. And it might not even be too reliable.

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I don't think it would, personally. It would be a + to Thac0 on those weapons, I think. Else, if you want something like parrying, a percentage chance to miss would also work.

 

IE. You get something like a 10% chance each hit with these weapons to become immune to physical attacks for a second, maybe two.

 

EDIT: You could even use a Cast Spell On Condition -> Improved Mantle, or something.

 

Icen

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I don't think it would, personally. It would be a + to Thac0 on those weapons, I think. Else, if you want something like parrying, a percentage chance to miss would also work.

I think we're talking about different things here. I think yarpen was referring to making the ranged THAC0 bonus that you get with high DEX values also apply to certain types of melee weapons. ie. the missile category from here. Interesting suggestions for the parrying, though. :) I think we might want to stick with something that can differentiate between swords and arrows, though.

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At which, the dexmod is not actually all that difficult, I think.

 

The only real way to do it is add an effect with a ranged weapon, that does absolutely nothing, but it used only to detect ranged weaponry. I think we can handle that, but it borders on scripting a bit.

 

Icen

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The only real way to do it is add an effect with a ranged weapon, that does absolutely nothing, but it used only to detect ranged weaponry
I may be wrong, but afair only launchers receive dex bonus. Even still, changing damage type inside the header will affect which AC (slashing or missile) will work against an attack. Nice idea, but not worth the hassle, I fear.
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At which, the dexmod is not actually all that difficult, I think.

 

The only real way to do it is add an effect with a ranged weapon, that does absolutely nothing, but it used only to detect ranged weaponry. I think we can handle that, but it borders on scripting a bit.

 

Icen

I tested with a hammer with both melee and ranged headers, and only the ranged header receives a bonus. Also, being ranged prevents it from being dual-wielded.

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It still will be counted as a ranged type when determining to hit chance. Not to mention different damage type when it comes to resistances (though it's fixable).

Finally, I doubt there'd be a way to prevent STR and DEX bonuses stacking.

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Wasn't this a topic about "Armors and Weapon Type Resistance"?! :)

 

Anyway, I had the idea about using a ranged header with range set to 1 to make a melee weapon use the dexterity bonus to attack rolls long time ago, but I discarded it, and ufortunately I don't remember all the reasons that made me decide to abandon it...

I may try it again, anyway here a few things:

- you can make DEX and STR not stack, but that implies no STR bonus to damage either

- weapons with a ranged header don't allow a off-hand weapon and display the string "ranged weapon equipped bla bla..." when trying to equip a off-hand weapon

- single weapon style bonuses wouldn't work on such a weapon :)

 

It still will be counted as a ranged type when determining to hit chance. Not to mention different damage type when it comes to resistances (though it's fixable).
I'm not sure about it, actually I think the very damage type determines the weapon type: a ranged weapon (missile) or a milee one (slashing, piercing, crushing).
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