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Lilarcorn


DrAzTiK

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Yes but make the game easier should be a lot more irritating and dangerous that make the game harder.

There is more people who want a harder game instead an easier coz BG2 vanilla is very very easy ( monsters are weak, pitiable IA, tons of XP etc)

 

When i see two handed sword balancing, it appears to me that the game will be more easier with this weapons...

 

 

ps: i have just recommended to reduce overall power of item "a little" while balancing them not reducing by 2 enchantment level lol

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Lilarcor +3

just an observation: the opionions on what should be done with Lilacorn are most relevant from the people who actually use the thing, and how it interacts with Minsc should be reserved for those who play his character. Is that the player set we have around here? (Because I am neither). If not we need to ask this question some place where more people we are interested in read.
I'm not sure I've understood what you said. Anyway, I think many players around here (including me) use this sword, and are interested in it. Banter Pack adds some banters if the sword is wielded by Minsc, and this blade probably is the most "appropriate" for his character.

 

You don't have to use 'cast on condition' for those, the header's internal effects work only 'on a successful hit' anyway.

 

I think confusion would be more appropriate than feeblemindness. Or perhaps both, as there're quite a number of confusion immunities, compared to fm?

Probably I haven't been clear, I know what you says and that's why I said I would tie it to attacks (on hit) instead of while equipped (cast spell on condition). :) This is something I'll have to do for many effects that currently works with "cast spell on condition - while equipped or enemy in sight", I'll talk about it in the relevant topic.

 

A sword which grants immunity to confusion confuse its wielder? :p Feeblemind is more appropriate imo, isn't blocked by the sword's immunities themselves and works very similarly to the INT drain effect (set INT to 3), but perhaps a small chance to lower INT by 1 is enough, let me know your opinions.

 

I like the Minsc idea too :D
Usable only be Minsc?
I don't want it to be usable only by Minsc, it's not his sword after all, but having it less appealing for other characters seems a better solution. I won't do it if most of you disagree.

 

I don't like random effects for high penality at all or/and use a weapon if i have 5% chance to Die (confused,terror= die). But it's ok for me coz i don't want this weapon able to be wield by any character expect Minsc if Lilacorn is +3 enchantment.
Well, if a 1% chance seems too much to you, than it's more easy for you to say you just don't like the negative effect at all! :p

 

Maybe a strenght's penality ? (during X round to prevent the fact the character could switch of weapon)
I don't understand, on hit? While equipped? And how would it be tied to the weapon's background?

 

Spider's Bane +2

Implant Spider's bane if you let Lilacorn to be a Minsc's weapon imo.
I'll probably do it anyway, though nerfed as previously mentioned.

 

Sword of Chaos +2

And sword of chaos (first weapon of the game...) is a litlle too much overpowed. + 2 drain is ok imo. I know you like (maybe too much) random effects and that 1D4 = 2.5 like op soul reaver :p
Well, +2 drain instead of +2.5 isn't going to change much! :D Anyway, this "issue" has already been discussed, and the following is how the sword may look like in V2 (a sort of anti-Lawgiver :) ).

 

Equipped Abilities:

Immunity to fear

Combat Abilities:

Anarchic: additional +6 points of damage against lawful creatures

THAC0: +2 bonus

Damage: 2D6 + 2

 

 

Game Difficulty

Erf.. are you sure the game is not easier with your mod ?? Take a poll should be a good idea imo. (one say me he was -24 Ca with Anomen O_o with your mod lol maybe an error...)
It may be possible, but many V2 items will be less powerful than their V1 version exactly to avoid it.

 

Let's see the most probable AC of a character at the end of ToB:

- Full Plate +5 grants base AC -4 (though only at the very end of the game)

- Tower Shield +4 grants +8 AC (almost at the end of the game)

- Helmet grants +1 AC (any magical one)

- Amulet grants +1 AC (a few of them)

- Ring of Protection +2 grants +2 AC

- Cloak grants +1 AC (we can't use the Cloak of protection +2)

- Boots grants +4 AC vs. missiles only

- Girdle grants +4 AC vs. one type of weapon

- Dexterity grants +1 AC (a character with DEX 18 has DEX 15 in full plate)

We have AC -18, (-22 against two types of weapons), and you may raise that AC by 2 increasing dexterity to 21 (Bracers of Dexterity + Lum Machine), or you may equip a defensive weapon (Axe of Unyelding), bringing it to -21.

The drawback is that to have such a low AC the character has focused almost exclusively on lowering it (his equipment pratically does only that), sacrificing many other possibilities.

 

That being said it is well known that in ToB an AC worse than -10 is pointless, as most opponents have THAC0 between 0 and -10, thus this "issue" seems to me more an opportunity than an "issue". If playtesting can prove me wrong, I'll make sure to put remedy to it.

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Well, if a 1% chance seems too much to you, than it's more easy for you to say you just don't like the negative effect at all!

I have misunderstand, i was thinking about 5% chance to be confused.

 

A penality to strengh is just an idea for a penality less irritating that the loss of character's control (equal to death imo). And how illogical it it a fighter who must listen lilacor'crap every 2 minutes loose strengh :) Nevermind, it was just an idea.

 

I would like YES penality and negative effect for this weapon who is severe(except for minsc)but not an irritating penality, that's all.

 

 

Well, suggesting +2 drain instead of +2.5 isn't going to change much!

It's going to change a little... if you nerf 0.5 enchantment for each character ===> it will be a nerf of +3 for a team with 6 characters.

 

Immunity to fear for sword of chaos is less exiting and usefull that drain but why not.

additional +6 points of damage against lawful creatures : not exiting coz nobody know alignment of ennemy (who are ofen inconsistent) and will know when it will be effective.

 

It may be possible, but many V2 items will be less powerful than their V1 version exactly to avoid it.

nice

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Lilarcor +3 (beta)

Equipped Abilities:

Immunity to charm and confusion effects

Combat Abilities:

Insanity: 5% chance on each hit to drain 1 point of INT from the wielder for X, 1% chance the wielder must save vs. spell or be feebleminded for Y

THAC0: +3 bonus

Damage: 2D6 + 3

 

Notes: I'd say X= 5 turns (1 hour), but I really don't know about Y (though no more than 8 hours). Do you think both penalties together are too much? If someone really doesn't like the idea let me know, as of now it's either this way or simply reducing its enchantment level to +2.

For the "Minsc immunity" I'd say we may add a note or a few lines in the description mentioning that the "intelligent sword" may come along well only with characters as "insane" as its ego.

 

 

Sword of Chaos +2

Immunity to fear for sword of chaos is less exiting and usefull that drain but why not.

additional +6 points of damage against lawful creatures : not exiting coz nobody know alignment of ennemy (who are ofen inconsistent) and will know when it will be effective.

Yeah, the additional +6 points of damage against lawful creatures may as well not be there.
You could say the same for vanilla's "+X points of damage vs. chaotic evil", and this is even more effective because it works against Lawful Evil/Neutral/Good.

Would it be more likeable a +2 vs. non-chaotic, +4 vs. lawful?

Else let me know what you think it would be more appropriate for this sword.

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I don't like "+X points of damage vs chaotic" in vanilla too lol. I have never used this sort of weapons.

 

Not coz of amount of damage but coz it's a litlle irritating never be aware at 100% if Sword of chaos will be more effective for X or Y ennemis. (unless you are aware about all creatures's alignment)

 

Drain is nice and exiting for sword of chaos imo. Capacity to be heal a litlle is interessing at low level.

 

Do what you think is better for Lilarcor, I have difficulty to argue correctly and i don't want to disturb you too much. I think it may be not easy to nerf this weapons correctly except for Minsc.

But i don't see how less 1 or 2 point of INT is a penality for a fighter.

 

ty

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Brainstorming here:

 

Lilacor is a sentient sword with a powerful ego, so powerful, in fact that it tends to impress its personality upon its wielder. Lilacor is apparantly motivated by loneliness, and a genuine desire to become 'one with' or 'pack brother with' its wielder.

 

then list the penalties you propose

 

but that they only apply to characters of intelligence > X (for feeblemind) and

wisdom > Y (for confusion). Characters with lower stats are already 'one with' Lilacor and are not affected by these abilities.

 

just thinking out loud,

Laura

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Err... am I the only one wondering about the concept of "insanity = lower intelligence [= getting dumber]"?

 

Personally I don't think that turning Lilarcor into a "it can turn you into a moron" or "Yay, Minsc roxx0rzzz!" type of weapon is such a good idea. Especially not the latter.

Considering its vanilla description a chance to be feebleminded looks fine for me and could be explained as the wielder having some sort of nervous breakdown. On the other hand a berserk effect might be appropriate as well:

 

[...] As a weapon, Lilarcor has its uses, but many a warrior has eventually given it away. Banter such as "Ouch, that musta hurt", "Oh yeah! Got 'im good", and "Beware my bite for it might...might...might really hurt or something" is a constant barrage on a warrior's psyche.

 

Thus the effect on a warrior's psyche might be going berserk since he can't stand it anymore. You could argue that going berserk might be an enjoyable act for Lilarcor itself... which would drive the wielder even more insane :). If possible the chance to berserk could rise with each battle round since the wielder's bound to hear the sword blabbering if he keeps fighting with it and thus gets more and more angry about it. While not terribly logical a possible idea the wielder might get, given his "dire" situation, is ending the battle as fast as possible, to make it shut up which results in a berserker rage. Maybe gaining some benefits/disadvantages while in this state might make the weapon interesting as well. Or overpowered...

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I have thought about Lilarcor this night lol

 

Let me explain why I don't like very much X% chances to be fablemindeed coz it's a very irritating penality, even with 1% ( yes i know it's not a lot but many people are NOT lucky...). Would you like to play a big combat (Irenicus) with this penality?

Fablemindeed = more or less paralysed ? right ?

 

Just another idea : what about "tired effect" (-2thac0, damages, CA) with "X" % chances on hit for "Y"round. It would like a +2 weapons on hands of any fighters except Minsc or someone with low score in WIS and INT. (% need to be well estimated for this)

 

And yes i think Minsc should be immunise coz :

- famous banters with appropriate mod even if I admit I don't like justifications to install a mod coz it could be nice with another mod who itself could be nice whith another mod etc...

- coherently, Minsc should be not disturb by Lilarcor, au contraire.

- Minsc deserve something (and allow him to wear Lilarcor is not a lot), he fights in first line since BG1.

- no rebalancing kit existing for "rangers" even if it not disturb me coz it allow players who want to play a more difficult game to choose less powerfull characters... Minsc deserve to be well played to be efficient.

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