Protection from Normal Missiles - intermediate option?

[Hannibal_Rex]

To be honest I think I like the simplicity of the OP's suggestion: immunity to normal and +1 arrows but not +2 and up.

 

Yeah, the problem is, once you start tweaking and balancing, you won't see an end to it. There are plenty of useless/underpowered/overpowered spells, item and abilities in the IE's rendition of 2nd Ed. AD&D. Why change one, but not the other? 'Fixing' them, or making them more closely resemble their P&P versions, is best left to other mods. Also, as is becoming apparent, everybody seems to have their own idea or preference as to how to fix/balance things, so no matter what gets changed, someone's bound to be displeased. For a mod that aims to stay as true as possible to the original game, and hence appeal to the most players, it's probably best to avoid going into this too much.

 

I've made my original suggestion as you've already tweaked the spell yourself, and based the AI's use of it on your version. In this context, I agree that casting the original spell is basically a wasted round for the AI, but full immunity strikes me as a bit too much for a third level spell.

 

I think my original suggestion is a decent compromise between purism and tactical challenge. It's simple and in-between both existing options. If an AI mage uses it, it'll still require a tactical response from the player, even though it is easier to counter. It doesn't achieve some mythical level of perfect balance that will please everyone, but nothing would.

 

My second suggestion has some legitimacy for the SR mod, but not really for SCS.

[coaster]

OK, at the risk of adding further to the menu of possible options, how about leaving PfNM as it is and instead adding:

 

"Remove most +1 arrows/bolts from the game"?

 

Or replace them with "masterwork arrows/bolts" which have +1 to hit/damage but are unenchanted?

 

This:

 

a/ is consistent with the SCS component to remove +1 melee weapons/replace them with fine ones

b/ avoids the whole "where do you stop" debate with respect to tinkering with the spells

c/ hopefully achieves much the same result as option 1 (although I'm not sure how acid/fire/cold arrows are treated - are they +1 enchanted?)

[DavidW]

OK, at the risk of adding further to the menu of possible options, how about leaving PfNM as it is and instead adding:

 

"Remove most +1 arrows/bolts from the game"?

 

Or replace them with "masterwork arrows/bolts" which have +1 to hit/damage but are unenchanted?

 

 

I was thinking the same thing, actually - I'll probably implement this for the next version (due out in a few days, though it's mostly bugfixes).

[Salk]

I actually came with this same suggestion in 2006.

[DavidW]

I actually came with this same suggestion in 2006.

 

That explains why it sounded familiar...

[Hannibal_Rex]

That would be another way to solve it. It'll require a judgment call as to how many and which arrows get changed. You may also run into some balancing issues when it comes to fighting monsters that require +1 enchanted weapons to hit, though I don't know which of the BG1 monsters are such.

[DavidW]

That would be another way to solve it. It'll require a judgment call as to how many and which arrows get changed. You may also run into some balancing issues when it comes to fighting monsters that require +1 enchanted weapons to hit, though I don't know which of the BG1 monsters are such.

 

I was intending to fairly simplemindedly replace all +1 ammunition with nonmagical ammunition, and to allow PNM only to be penetrated by ammunition that's formally "plus something". That's basically isomorphic to your proposal, I thnk.Very few creatures in BG1 are immune to nonmagical weapons so there's not much of a balance issue.

[Salk]

That would be another way to solve it. It'll require a judgment call as to how many and which arrows get changed. You may also run into some balancing issues when it comes to fighting monsters that require +1 enchanted weapons to hit, though I don't know which of the BG1 monsters are such.

 

I was intending to fairly simplemindedly replace all +1 ammunition with nonmagical ammunition, and to allow PNM only to be penetrated by ammunition that's formally "plus something". That's basically isomorphic to your proposal, I thnk.Very few creatures in BG1 are immune to nonmagical weapons so there's not much of a balance issue.

 

I am not so fond of this solution because it would eliminate magical +1 projectiles from the game, which seems really out of place. Not to mention that this would be even more bizarre for those (like me) who do not use the "Masterwork weapon" component.

 

The solution is to have still access to a number of +1 projectiles which is superior (two times at least) to the amount of +2 projectiles in the game. I believe that in BG1 the amount of +1 missiles exceeds 4-5 times the number of +2 or higher missiles. So we should just reduce the quantity.

 

What about a systematic removal of 50% of the +1 missiles in the game?

 

Would it be possible?

 

At the end the balance will be kept intact as the magical missiles would still be there where they were before, only less...

[DavidW]

That would be another way to solve it. It'll require a judgment call as to how many and which arrows get changed. You may also run into some balancing issues when it comes to fighting monsters that require +1 enchanted weapons to hit, though I don't know which of the BG1 monsters are such.

 

I was intending to fairly simplemindedly replace all +1 ammunition with nonmagical ammunition, and to allow PNM only to be penetrated by ammunition that's formally "plus something". That's basically isomorphic to your proposal, I thnk.Very few creatures in BG1 are immune to nonmagical weapons so there's not much of a balance issue.

 

I am not so fond of this solution because it would eliminate magical +1 projectiles from the game, which seems really out of place. Not to mention that this would be even more bizarre for those (like me) who do not use the "Masterwork weapon" component.

 

That just seems to suggest that people who do find it out of place (notably, those who don't install the "masterwork weapon" component) should probably not install this component. Other solutions are probably possible but achieving balance is a lot harder than you might think (notably: there aren't twice as many +1 arrows as there "should" be for PNM to work, there are dozens of times too many.)