Mages and Pierce Magic

[culmore]

I suspect Conster's Pro Elements, Fire, and Acid spells will protect him from most of the damage, and leave him alive and kicking by the end

 

Yes and when I tried cloudkill he was smart enough to move out of the AoE to the chamber below. The big chamber with the dragon.

 

I tried again with the pierce magic and have managed to get rid of the GoI as you suggest. Also I don't now send in my melee's right away to try to reduce his movement. His movement is a problem which causes pierce shield etc to miss sometimes. At other times when he moves the pierce shield/secret word still land, I have not worked out why. During the battle Conster:

 

1) summons a fiend and a Mord sword

2) casts a lot of damage spells on my main wizard and he bings down his magic defences.

3) casts spell deflection once I bring down his GoI, in fact he cast spell deflection many times so it takes a lot of casts of secret word to get rid of his spell shields.

 

These makes this a hard fight for me. In fact I have not won it this way yet. Thought I think I possibly could.

 

The only way I have won is with the Nishruu. Hurrey for the Nishruu. !!!!

 

Thanks again for all the tips from Icen and amanasleep!

[Icendoan]

Cast Contagion on him. And then Feelblemind, if you can. Emotion is a very powerful spell, if used with Greater Malison and Doom.

 

Icen

[Guest amanasleep]

Cast Contagion on him. And then Feelblemind, if you can. Emotion is a very powerful spell, if used with Greater Malison and Doom.

 

Icen

 

You're joking right? You're either joking or trolling, because if you aren't doing either of those you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Contagion:

 

1. Save or else spell, so he might save.

2. If it takes effect, slows the target and reduces some stats by 2. This is almost literally no effect on an Arcane spellcaster.

3. Conster is Improved Invisible, so you can't target him with Contagion in the first place.

4. Even if you could, he also has Spell Turning up.

 

Feeblemind:

 

Exact same problems as above, except that the save is tougher and will have some effect, though it won't stop contingencis from firing.

 

Emotion:

 

Might do something. But what if he saves? Better cast a lot of them.

 

Doom:

 

Targeted spell; useless.

 

Greater Malison:

 

Might help you get him with Emotion.

 

To summarize Icen's useful advice:

 

Cast 2x Pierce Magic to get rid of Spell Turning #1 and GoI. Once GoI is down, you can cast Greater Malison and Emotions at him until he falls asleep. Then you can either try and strip his spell protections or just wait for them to expire.

 

I would suggest skipping Malison and Emotion (too many level 4 slots). And just cast 2x Pierce Magic followed by Minor Sequencer with 2x Web, but this only works if he doesn't cast SI: Evocation. Otherwise he will be stuck for a good long time, allowing you to strip spell protections, wait him out (casting more Webs as necessary to keep him under wraps--cast Free Action or Spider Spawn once you want to attack), or even cast those Death Fogs and Cloudkills (although they still won't do much damage).

[Icendoan]

Your summary was longer than my post.

 

And my information is always useful. I would tell you about my 2300 posts at BioWare on the subject but my account got deleted. You could always ask Frab if I tell the truth or not. Or D-C, or Jah, for that matter.

 

Web has no effect on an Arcane Spellcaster, as I think you can still cast spells.

 

Targetted Save-Or-Else spells are still useful, you don't dismiss them immediately.

 

Emotion is probably the most powerful for Spell:Level. I have soloed BG2 as a sorcerer with minor summons and that spell. No direct damage spells, at all. Without Greater Malison, it shuts down Fire Giants, Conster is no problem for it.

 

Get your melleé characters to build a bodywall near the stairs, and cast Cloudkill in the room. Conster will be trapped, and suddenly taking damage each round. Remove his protections (one Pierce Shield will be enough) and cast Greater Malison -> Emotion. He will be wandering around or sleeping in a Cloudkill. Let your meleé characters finish him off.

 

Icen

[Guest amanasleep]

Your summary was longer than my post.

 

It is always takes longer to refute misinformation than to disseminate it.

 

And my information is always useful. I would tell you about my 2300 posts at BioWare on the subject but my account got deleted. You could always ask Frab if I tell the truth or not. Or D-C, or Jah, for that matter.

 

I have noted you as a responsible and knowledgeable poster elsewhere. That's why I find your current ignorance confusing.

 

Web has no effect on an Arcane Spellcaster, as I think you can still cast spells.

 

Totally untrue. Web holds the target. They can do nothing on a failed save, including cast spells. If you are confusing Web with Entangle, then I submit that you don't know much about BG2 or D&D, as that is the most common noob mistake people make when evaluating the effectiveness of Web.

 

Targetted Save-Or-Else spells are still useful, you don't dismiss them immediately.

 

I dismiss them immediately when the target is improved invisible. Are you even paying attention to this thread? If you are assuming that you have previously dispelled his invisibility, why on earth would you cast Contagion when you could cast BREACH and beat him to death.

 

There is simply no excuse for Contagion. Contagion doesen't do anything!!!!! Even suggesting that spell in any other context than stat-draining Arkanis Gath is to immediately reveal that you are an idiot.

 

Emotion is probably the most powerful for Spell:Level. I have soloed BG2 as a sorcerer with minor summons and that spell. No direct damage spells, at all. Without Greater Malison, it shuts down Fire Giants, Conster is no problem for it.

 

I didn't really argue against it. It's a pretty good spell. I argued that Web is better in this situation (You could probably solo with Web, Spider Spawn, and MMM just as profitably).

 

Get your melleé characters to build a bodywall near the stairs, and cast Cloudkill in the room. Conster will be trapped, and suddenly taking damage each round.

 

This doesn't work for several reasons:

 

1. As explained before, Conster is 100% resistant to acid and is possibly immune to evocation, so he will take little or no damage from the Cloudkill and can still cast spells (in fact I believe that SCS2 scripts casters to start casting immediately after taking damage from area spells and Acid arrows, etc to fit spells in between once-per-round damage).

 

2. Even though Conster can't run downstairs (or can he? Often times NPC's can disappear into an exit even if blocked) he still can (and will) move outside of the area of the Cloudkill. So your only option is to cast Cloudkills everywhere (including on top of party members). Not good.

 

Remove his protections (one Pierce Shield will be enough)

 

Hardly. First of all you aren't paying attention (again). Our questioner has stated that he is 13th level, so he cannot cast the 8th level spell Pierce Shield. But for the sake of argument let's assume you meant Pierce Magic (they are both the same in this situation anyway). As has been stated multiple times already in this thread, the first Pierce Magic cast at a target protected by Spell Turning and GoI will dispel Spell Turning, not GoI. That means...

 

and cast Greater Malison -> Emotion. He will be wandering around or sleeping in a Cloudkill. Let your meleé characters finish him off.

 

...he will not be affected by either of these 4th level spells.

 

For your plan to work, at least two (2) Pierce Magic Spells must be cast at Conster in order affect him with the area disabling spells that either of us suggest.

 

The 5th level spell Chaos might be a workaround. Casting a few of these will likely affect Conster at least once without having to cast any spell protection removal, but I don't know if confusion effects disrupt spellcasting entirely, and his Contingencies will continue to fire. Chaos also only lasts 6 rounds at 13th level, so it might not outlast his protections anyway.

[Guest Guest]

And my information is always useful.

Lol, and two lines later...

 

Web has no effect on an Arcane Spellcaster, as I think you can still cast spells.

 

You've posted several things on this forum that are plain wrong. People come here for information and you tell them things like:

 

No, that is Minor Globe, Normal Globe blocks all 6th and below.

 

If you actually wanted to be helpful you'd at least check your information instead of just guessing.

[Icendoan]

Your summary was longer than my post.

 

It is always takes longer to refute misinformation than to disseminate it.

 

And my information is always useful. I would tell you about my 2300 posts at BioWare on the subject but my account got deleted. You could always ask Frab if I tell the truth or not. Or D-C, or Jah, for that matter.

 

I have noted you as a responsible and knowledgeable poster elsewhere. That's why I find your current ignorance confusing.

 

Yeah, there is a certain something about being banned from the forum where this knowledge gets called up most for 6 months (or thereabout), that dulls your memory.

Web has no effect on an Arcane Spellcaster, as I think you can still cast spells.

 

Totally untrue. Web holds the target. They can do nothing on a failed save, including cast spells. If you are confusing Web with Entangle, then I submit that you don't know much about BG2 or D&D, as that is the most common noob mistake people make when evaluating the effectiveness of Web.

 

You know, you are right. I prefer Emotion and Domination to Web and so on, as Web isn't much use to a solo Mage, as you get held just as easily. Including "noob" to it starts to flame, please, desist.

Targetted Save-Or-Else spells are still useful, you don't dismiss them immediately.

 

I dismiss them immediately when the target is improved invisible. Are you even paying attention to this thread? If you are assuming that you have previously dispelled his invisibility, why on earth would you cast Contagion when you could cast BREACH and beat him to death.

 

There is simply no excuse for Contagion. Contagion doesen't do anything!!!!! Even suggesting that spell in any other context than stat-draining Arkanis Gath is to immediately reveal that you are an idiot.

 

You can cast Breach on someone with Improved Invisibility? (Always check for falling into the mistakes you judge others for.)

 

Immediately, slow, iirc, slows casting time, as well as movement speed, which is useful for any who would try to stop someone from running from their sword. It is far more powerful than ordinary slow, as it lowers their AC (DEX) and can even encumber them (STR). If Arkanis Gath had anything relevant to this, or if there was something you could get from stat draining him, I would utilize it. Idiocy is a hard quality to define, as is a lot of everything else. Define intelligence, and then you can argue for someone else being an idiot.

 

And, in return, I ask you. Which Arkanis? (There are 3 types seen in the series, see if you can list them.)

Emotion is probably the most powerful for Spell:Level. I have soloed BG2 as a sorcerer with minor summons and that spell. No direct damage spells, at all. Without Greater Malison, it shuts down Fire Giants, Conster is no problem for it.

 

I didn't really argue against it. It's a pretty good spell. I argued that Web is better in this situation (You could probably solo with Web, Spider Spawn, and MMM just as profitably).

 

Get your melleé characters to build a bodywall near the stairs, and cast Cloudkill in the room. Conster will be trapped, and suddenly taking damage each round.

 

This doesn't work for several reasons:

 

1. As explained before, Conster is 100% resistant to acid and is possibly immune to evocation, so he will take little or no damage from the Cloudkill and can still cast spells (in fact I believe that SCS2 scripts casters to start casting immediately after taking damage from area spells and Acid arrows, etc to fit spells in between once-per-round damage).

 

2. Even though Conster can't run downstairs (or can he? Often times NPC's can disappear into an exit even if blocked) he still can (and will) move outside of the area of the Cloudkill. So your only option is to cast Cloudkills everywhere (including on top of party members). Not good.

 

1. Sure, the idea is that Cloudkill has a habit of destroying summons, while not using a 6th level slot.

 

2. Only happens with EscapeArea(), I think that SCSII would use RunAwayFrom(), which doesn't 'jump' past people.

Remove his protections (one Pierce Shield will be enough)

 

Hardly. First of all you aren't paying attention (again). Our questioner has stated that he is 13th level, so he cannot cast the 8th level spell Pierce Shield. But for the sake of argument let's assume you meant Pierce Magic (they are both the same in this situation anyway). As has been stated multiple times already in this thread, the first Pierce Magic cast at a target protected by Spell Turning and GoI will dispel Spell Turning, not GoI. That means...

 

and cast Greater Malison -> Emotion. He will be wandering around or sleeping in a Cloudkill. Let your meleé characters finish him off.

 

...he will not be affected by either of these 4th level spells.

 

For your plan to work, at least two (2) Pierce Magic Spells must be cast at Conster in order affect him with the area disabling spells that either of us suggest.

 

The 5th level spell Chaos might be a workaround. Casting a few of these will likely affect Conster at least once without having to cast any spell protection removal, but I don't know if confusion effects disrupt spellcasting entirely, and his Contingencies will continue to fire. Chaos also only lasts 6 rounds at 13th level, so it might not outlast his protections anyway.

 

Chaos would be a workaround, because it uses RunAwayFrom()/RandomWalk() override (or to that effect), so it doesn't cast any spells.

 

There is the other way of casting Shield and then Magic Missiles until he runs out of Spell Turning, and then Pierce Magic will take out his GoI. AFAIK and IIRC, the last used protection is the first one lost, for protection in one area. The last Combat Protection will take effect, and the last Spell Protection also. I am not really sure on this, as I haven't tested it.

 

Don't insult anyone without evidence. Everyone makes mistakes; everyone learns. You made enough, over the course of your posts.

 

Icen

[Shaitan]

With SR Contagion is useful

[Icendoan]

Contagion has multiple uses anyway, particularly with other spells such as Ray of Enfeeblement. Encumbered: Cannot Move is good tactically...

 

Icen

[Guest!]

There's a Khelben's Warding Whip scroll conveniently places either on the table or in the drawer (I can't remember exactly) in the room you fight Conster. That should take care of his defences. When I fought him last time I just had Keldorn cast Dispel Magic (set at 1x, so it should be doable by any caster) and than attacked him in melee. The battle only lasted a coulpe rounds. Failing that, Greater Malison + Emotion is a good combo too as you don't need to target either. You should also be able to summon a few monsters and retreat with your party to the entrance of the cavern while Conster wastes his spells on the gnolls/hobgoblins/ogres cluttering the way.

[Icendoan]

Or, as one of my first suggestions, which was very successful, a Nishruu will take care of everything.

 

Icen

[Guest!]

If he can cast level 6 spells he could try that, though the Nishruu would probably be deathspelled instantly. Generally I've found Nishruus/Hakeashars to be more effective as magic soakers, to gain a few moments, than anything else.

[Icendoan]

Well, the idea is to use a lighter summoning spell first, if that happens, and most mages have 1 Death Spell, and he said he can cast Pierce Magic, so it is all good.

 

Icen

[Guest amanasleep]

Yeah, there is a certain something about being banned from the forum where this knowledge gets called up most for 6 months (or thereabout), that dulls your memory.

 

Uh, no comment.

 

You know, you are right. I prefer Emotion and Domination to Web and so on, as Web isn't much use to a solo Mage, as you get held just as easily. Including "noob" to it starts to flame, please, desist.

 

Once you get to spellhold you get Ring of Free Action. After that Web is terrific. It's still good even without Free Action, not the least of which reason is that two Webs are twice as good and go in Minor Sequencer. It also gives a great combo with Minor Globe of Invulnerability, which otherwise doesn't have so many uses. But I like to MGoI and then Web and Fireball everything.

 

I dismiss them immediately when the target is improved invisible. Are you even paying attention to this thread? If you are assuming that you have previously dispelled his invisibility, why on earth would you cast Contagion when you could cast BREACH and beat him to death.

 

There is simply no excuse for Contagion. Contagion doesen't do anything!!!!! Even suggesting that spell in any other context than stat-draining Arkanis Gath is to immediately reveal that you are an idiot.

 

You can cast Breach on someone with Improved Invisibility? (Always check for falling into the mistakes you judge others for.)

 

Please read what I actually wrote. I asked why you would cast Contagion when you could cast Breach. I already pointed out that targeted spells were useless against invisibility. Contagion is useless even if it hits.

 

Immediately, slow, iirc, slows casting time, as well as movement speed, which is useful for any who would try to stop someone from running from their sword. It is far more powerful than ordinary slow, as it lowers their AC (DEX) and can even encumber them (STR). If Arkanis Gath had anything relevant to this, or if there was something you could get from stat draining him, I would utilize it. Idiocy is a hard quality to define, as is a lot of everything else. Define intelligence, and then you can argue for someone else being an idiot.

 

Unbelieveable. Do you actually believe the stuff you are writing? Slow does not affect casting time. It does affect movement, which is irrelevent in this fight. It may lower Conster's AC by 2, also irrelevent, since he is protected by PfMW and Stoneskin. It will almost certainly not encumber him, but even if it did, his movement or lack thereof is irrelevent as it doesn't affect his spellcasting. This leaves aside the issue of him saving against the spell outright. The only slight advantage is making his MMM shots less effective. Still pretty lame.

 

The biggest issue here is what you could have cast instead of Contagion. I'm saying if you have the ability to cast a targeted spell, then you have to choose between Contagion and Breach, you choose Contagion. Why?

 

I define intelligence as the ability, when given a choice where one option is clearly superior, to choose the superior option. You fail this test. Therefore you are an idiot QED.

 

And, in return, I ask you. Which Arkanis? (There are 3 types seen in the series, see if you can list them.)

 

You can stat drain unkillable creatures (like Arkanis) to death. A Ray of Enfeeblement followed by a few Contagions will kill him in vanilla because Contagion erroneously stacks. It's probably been fixed by Fix Pack.

 

1. Sure, the idea is that Cloudkill has a habit of destroying summons, while not using a 6th level slot.

 

Still not paying attention. He summons Mordy swords and Demons. Cloudkill is weak against these summons.

 

2. Only happens with EscapeArea(), I think that SCSII would use RunAwayFrom(), which doesn't 'jump' past people.

 

I defer here. I don't know the specifics of scripting.

 

Chaos would be a workaround, because it uses RunAwayFrom()/RandomWalk() override (or to that effect), so it doesn't cast any spells.

 

Interesting. Good to know.

 

There is the other way of casting Shield and then Magic Missiles until he runs out of Spell Turning, and then Pierce Magic will take out his GoI.

 

Once again I am astounded by the depths of your willful ignorance. Please take this short quiz:

 

You can't cast Magic Missiles because:

 

A. He is invisible

B. GoI will stop them before they affect Spell Turning

C. You will run out of Magic Missiles before you exhaust his Spell Turning protection

D. All of the above!

 

Seriously that's just retarded. Have you played this cool game called Baldur's Gate 2? It's really awesome, you should try it some time.

 

AFAIK and IIRC, the last used protection is the first one lost, for protection in one area. The last Combat Protection will take effect, and the last Spell Protection also. I am not really sure on this, as I haven't tested it.

 

The answer to this question is listed:

 

1. In the spell description

2. Earlier in this very thread

3. Both!

 

Don't insult anyone without evidence. Everyone makes mistakes; everyone learns. You made enough, over the course of your posts.

 

Icen

 

I think the course of this thread is quite evidence enough.

 

I have always owned up to my mistakes and been cordial with those who corrected me, and when I am wrong I attempt to make up for it by reading what people wrote and improving upon it.

 

You, on the other hand, spout off nonsense and then ignore the fact that people have already corrected you earlier in the same thread. People come to these forums asking for help, and you pop up with your 1000 post count and just make random comments without bothering to get the most basic facts straight. It is that kind of arrogance and hauteur that really irks me. I called you a noob earlier and I stand by it. You set yourself up like an experienced poster and player but you speak with ignorance and lack of authority. You are helping no one. You mention getting banned from another forum like a mark of honor--that's nothing to brag about even if you feel you got a raw deal. It's certainly no excuse for spreading ignorance.

 

Bottom line: If you cannot be bothered to read the thread you are posting in, then you will not get the slightest respect from me.

[culmore]

There's a Khelben's Warding Whip scroll conveniently places either on the table or in the drawer (I can't remember exactly) in the room you fight Conster. That should take care of his defences. When I fought him last time I just had Keldorn cast Dispel Magic (set at 1x, so it should be doable by any caster) and than attacked him in melee. The battle only lasted a coule rounds. Failing that, Greater Malison + Emotion is a good combo too as you don't need to target either. You should also be able to summon a few monsters and retreat with your party to the entrance of the cavern while Conster wastes his spells on the gnolls/hobgoblins/ogres cluttering the way.

 

Yeah Keldorn should work as you suggest, but somehow I have been unlucky with that. Even though his dispel is set at 1.5x, I must try this again a few more times. Greater Mailsion and emotion are both level 4 so they won't get thru his GoI but as some else suggested Chaos would and does. As you suggest I can run away and close the door but I kind of see this as cheating.. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

amanasleep I think some of the differences in spells between you and Icen are coming from the fact that he uses the Spell Revisions mod (SR) and under SR the slow spell for example does double casting time, but in the vanilla game it does not affect casting time. You have both been very helpful, it makes me feel bad when you argue with him.