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Concerning Dispell and Remove Magics


Guest Guest_Darkmoon_*

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Guest Guest_Darkmoon_*

Hey Guys, I apologize in advance about making a pest of myself...

 

So here is the issue..and I know I was reading a similiar problem over in SCSII forum. What exactly is the point of pre buffing your party if the first thing a lich or mage does is cast dispell and or remove magic and wipe out all of your defenses. There is very little chance of one of my mages returning the favor (SCSII mages seem very high level). As it stands the only use I have for either of those spells is to remove negative effects on my own party (like a charm or some such).

 

So I guess my question is, is there anything in the works to balance out this issue? I was wondering if it would be possible to make it a single target spell as opposed to an area effect, or make remove target single target and keep dispell area effect? Or is SI abj my only defense for my mages and everyone else is just screwed?

 

Darkmoon

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What exactly is the point of pre buffing your party if the first thing a lich or mage does is cast dispell
I'd say it's a problem of the "smart AI" concept that seems to be common among IE modders who improve opponents.

 

I recall Remove Magic to be pretty effective (and recommended by author) in Rogue Rebalancing fights.

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Dispelling is effective, so it is logical for high-level opponents to do so. But annoying, of course. Send in a sacrificial lamb.

 

An interesting issue is - what level is potion and item effects cast at? Level 1? If so, they are very easily dispellable. Can that be tweaked?

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Guest Guest_Darkmoon_*
What exactly is the point of pre buffing your party if the first thing a lich or mage does is cast dispell
I'd say it's a problem of the "smart AI" concept that seems to be common among IE modders who improve opponents.

 

I recall Remove Magic to be pretty effective (and recommended by author) in Rogue Rebalancing fights.

 

 

I haven't reached that point yet. The issue came up with my fight against Lavok..I spent time prebuffing my party then as soon as I walked in once the battle started I got hit with a dispell magic (or remove magic)which wiped out everything. My issue with the spells is that they seem super effective for the enemy magic users to use and next to useless for party mages to use (esp multiclass mages). Remove magic has a base 50% to work..I think dispell is the same, then its modified by the level of the caster above the target.

 

I like reasonably intelligent enemies..but SCS II makes magic users bloody intelligent...smarter then me actually:)...there doesn't seem to be a half way point between vanilla and scsII.

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Guest Guest_Darkmoon_*
Dispelling is effective, so it is logical for high-level opponents to do so. But annoying, of course. Send in a sacrificial lamb.

 

An interesting issue is - what level is potion and item effects cast at? Level 1? If so, they are very easily dispellable. Can that be tweaked?

 

 

I wasn't using potions..most of my buffs were spells from level 11 and 15 casters...

 

What about changing the level modifiers of Dispell magic and remove magic, or making it saving throw based then modify the saving throw based on level differences?

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I recall Remove Magic to be pretty effective (and recommended by author) in Rogue Rebalancing fights.

 

That's because RR opponents tend to be either pretty close to the party's level or lower. :)

 

On the other hand, SCSII raises the levels of enemy spellcasters (especially Liches) to great heights so Remove/Dispel Magic isn't that useful for low and mid level parties. I've brought this up to David a while ago and he said he'd look into it.

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I recall Remove Magic to be pretty effective (and recommended by author) in Rogue Rebalancing fights.
That's because RR opponents tend to be either pretty close to the party's level or lower. ;)

 

On the other hand, SCSII raises the levels of enemy spellcasters (especially Liches) to great heights so Remove/Dispel Magic isn't that useful for low and mid level parties. I've brought this up to David a while ago and he said he'd look into it.

Indeed RR does a fine job on this matter imo. :) I do remember the discussion about liches, and I agree that SCSII raises their level really too much, making both dispel check and turning attempts almost impossible even for an epic single classed Cleric. Regarding the other spellcasters in the game I'm not so sure, I should check them before judging, and I haven't experienced the issue too much because I generally don't prebuff, but they may suffer from a similar issue (though for example Lavok deserves to be much higher in level than the party imo).

 

Being "dispel check" hardcoded I can probably do very little about it, I guess only DavidW can "fix" it.

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