Suggestions thread

[ragnar-gd]

Heh. I'm familiar with a few dozen pen&paper systems, thank you, by doing tabletop gaming since 1991.

I like HeroQuest, Have played and storyguided a few Swedish rpgs based on an old edition of Runequest.

Oh well, I'm in that business since 1984... already wrote a book about roleplaying-gamers behaviour... Your selection shows taste! ;-)

And Riddle of Steel, Khelataar and friends are scarily realistic and deadly - that deadliness would be out of place in BG2. Mostly because the adventuring party would be crippled after a few fights and totally splattered by a fireball or three.

RQ, and similar, semi-realistic systems needs an active gamemaster to work, or severe changes to the rules. Even the most actual version seems outdated and flawed compared to the newer, more cinematic systems. Still, that could be done. But as you suggest...

So. Anything in particular you were thinking? Lots of things can be done. Many things don't make sense in the given campaign world of BG2, but can be tried nevertheless.

...let's talk about bgX

We are limited as to how much we can change the rules by the game engine. It is pretty flexible, though.

Yep. Much could be done - just if I had more time. But I'm a father of two, and only mod, where the games annoy my kids. Esp. my son is quite a good gametester, and helps me with graphics (BAMW and such).

I have a feeling that you'd like Ashes of Embers' "Sensible weapons for all classes" component (everyone can learn to use any weapon), combined with igi's learn through use mod (learn weapon skills by doing). Check them out.

I just tried to transfer igis mod to IWD - but failed, as - igi told me the detailed reasons - the IWD-engine is only a sub-set of bg2. Otherwise, I used those mods for quite some time in BGT. Yes, you seem to be able to read my mind...

What I was trying to think of, is if its possible to have armour absorb a certain amount of damage, instead of a percentage.

And then, to "simulate" the limited coverage of the body by armour, that this only happens x% of the time.

Like "Field plate: Absorb 12 hp, 80% of the time". And instead, like with monks, levels give better AC, simulating dodging and parrying, while heavy armour actually LOWERS AC.

Well, as you know RQ, you know the deal... ;-)

[erik]

What I was trying to think of, is if its possible to have armour absorb a certain amount of damage, instead of a percentage.

And then, to "simulate" the limited coverage of the body by armour, that this only happens x% of the time.

Like "Field plate: Absorb 12 hp, 80% of the time". And instead, like with monks, levels give better AC, simulating dodging and parrying, while heavy armour actually LOWERS AC.

Well, as you know RQ, you know the deal... ;-)

 

Absorb a numeric amount only works in IWD2, not in the rest. And I don't even have IWD2 handy to fool around with. Percentages are the only thing we have that work right away.

 

Feel free to try your idea in IWD2, I think it could work...

 

I'm sure something could be simulated in BGx, though, but that would entail modifying all weapons & spell damage effects... not only armour, as I do now. If I try that, I'm more inclined to try for a full Darklands system, I think (see discussion a bit upthread).

 

BTW, IWD engine equals BG1.5 or so. This mod is compatible with it through quite a bit of game-specific coding. Haven't tried to code down to BG1 level yet, mainly due to Tutu being so excellent.

[MichaelFurlong]

Hello.

Cheers for putting up that table, while I am not going to print it out and use it for planning my party, it is useful to get a rough idea of exact changes.

 

I think Seff may have a useful idea of (if I read it right) reducing some of the negative effects of heavy armour in favour of increasing the strength required to use it.

 

While I see your point about inhibiting long/short bow use in plate mail, I don't think wearing chain should decrease your ability to use them.

As for crossbows, these should be perfectly usable to plate mail characters and throwing weapons should be just about as effective as well.

[Guest Guest]

What is Keldorn's new DEX when he's wearing his armor? And is it possible to play the mod without the movement penalites (I prefer my party to move as a unit)?

[erik]

Cheers for putting up that table, while I am not going to print it out and use it for planning my party, it is useful to get a rough idea of exact changes.

 

Have a new look now, it's updated for v2. A few things have been adjusted.

 

I think Seff may have a useful idea of (if I read it right) reducing some of the negative effects of heavy armour in favour of increasing the strength required to use it.

 

Preferably not. STR requirements for heavy armours are high enough as they are.

[erik]

What is Keldorn's new DEX when he's wearing his armor?

 

In v2: DEX 5. (In v1 he had DEX 3 armoured... )

 

And is it possible to play the mod without the movement penalites (I prefer my party to move as a unit)?

 

No.

[Chev]

This mod is to make armor more realistic or add to game balance? If more realistic then you need to rethink a few things. Do you understand there is no Platemail, but Plate & Mail? So that would be chain mail with plate on top of it. Platemail should be heavier than Field Plate & Full Plate. Well fitted Field Plate & Full Plate should allow you to move better than Platemail, but putting on someone else's Field Plate & Full Plate would be very hard to move in.

[erik]

No realism fanaticism here. Just an alternate game balance. Weights of non-magical armour are currently straight from pen & paper AD&D.

 

Game-wise, I think full plate already is attractive enough in v2, but I'm open to persuasion. Do you have hard numbers for weight?

 

As for fitting, there also is the stock AD&D handwaving that magic armour magically adjusts to the wearer.

[Seff]

This mod is to make armor more realistic or add to game balance? If more realistic then you need to rethink a few things. Do you understand there is no Platemail, but Plate & Mail? So that would be chain mail with plate on top of it. Platemail should be heavier than Field Plate & Full Plate. Well fitted Field Plate & Full Plate should allow you to move better than Platemail, but putting on someone else's Field Plate & Full Plate would be very hard to move in.

Plate & Mail could also be plate on main limbs with mail being relied on to cover the rest - adding slightly to the weight, but not drastically so.

[ldmn]

No realism fanaticism here. Just an alternate game balance.

 

Greetings.

 

Happy I am that someone had the idea and ability to improve the armor system.

Anyway, when looking at the basic armor descriptions "spoiler" page, a question arises:

 

Why is it that only damage resistance difference is significcant - as for defence - in the list?

 

Would think, that light armor can not deflect a thrust/slash at all, while heavy armor has much more chance for completely defending the wearer - with only a slight chance to hit, at the joints and neck.

[erik]

Why is it that only damage resistance difference is significcant - as for defence - in the list?

 

Good question!

 

It's because Armor Class covers a combination of two different concepts in normal AD&D - dodging and deflection/absorption.

 

I take deflection/absorption out of Armor Class (mostly) and move it to damage resistance instead. (I could be more radical and give people a worse armor class - more difficult to dodge attacks - when armoured, but I figure that weakening the effect radically is good enough)

 

Then, for enchantments, I increase ability to dodge for light armour, and ability to absorb damage for heavy armour - I figure that's the most likely enhancements, respectively.

 

Just adding damage resistance in addition to the normal stats of the armour gives you no reason to use anything apart from the heaviest armour you can wear. I try to hit a balance so other armours do not go out of style.

 

Would think, that light armor can not deflect a thrust/slash at all, while heavy armor has much more chance for completely defending the wearer - with only a slight chance to hit, at the joints and neck.

 

Even light armour is quite helpful against slashes. I've had that demonstrated to me with a replica sharp sword vs. a pig carcass dressed in various armour. Naked pig vs. sword or spear is not pretty. Heavy cloth helps, chain mail helps a lot.

 

Do try the mod, say if you like it or not

[ldmn]

Then, for enchantments, I increase ability to dodge for light armour, and ability to absorb damage for heavy armour - I figure that's the most likely enhancements, respectively.

 

Even light armour is quite helpful against slashes. I've had that demonstrated to me with a replica sharp sword vs. a pig carcass dressed in various armour.

 

Yes, now I see, enchanted items have much more diverse values as for AC. Basic items dont reflect that kind of usability.

 

I wonder which attribute is used for dodging. Maybe dex/mov/initiative penalty.

 

So nice to hear you have had scientific research before implementing slashing effects.

Anyway, I can't try the mod, just thinking : when using any kind of basic items, one will often be hit, just the damage will be different. That seems a bit unreal.

But at enchanted items the table looks really fine.

[Guest niklaus]

Good work! this is a great mod, and I'm glad you put in the effort to make a progression for magical armour as well Wouldn't be complete without it!

 

Like some other people have said, Damage Threshold would be cool if it could be implemented. Atm its kinda annoying always taking damage even from a non-critical with a Xvart dagger lol

 

% based Dex penalties would be cool too, so characters will favour more diverse armours...some of your party will be better in leather, others in full plate depending on natural agility... (yes I know this feature is in Item Revisions, but your mod is more comprehensive!)

[erik]

Good work! this is a great mod, and I'm glad you put in the effort to make a progression for magical armour as well Wouldn't be complete without it!

 

Thank you!

 

Like some other people have said, Damage Threshold would be cool if it could be implemented. Atm its kinda annoying always taking damage even from a non-critical with a Xvart dagger lol

 

I hear you. But probably not going to happen due to implementation difficulty.

 

% based Dex penalties would be cool too, so characters will favour more diverse armours...some of your party will be better in leather, others in full plate depending on natural agility... (yes I know this feature is in Item Revisions, but your mod is more comprehensive!)

 

Hmm. Noted. I see the attraction, and will think on it.

 

Thanks!

[Shaitan]

Do you on your own hand update your mod compability when other mods gets updated/released?

 

Cheers and thnks for a great mod (though I still need to try it on a BG2 installation )