Dex penalties in heavy armor

[erik]

You may want to add this bit to your dex penalties in heavy armor components:

 

// thieves & DEX < 9
 COPY_EXISTING ~skilldex.2da~ ~override~
COUNT_2DA_ROWS 8 ~entrycount~
PATCH_IF (entrycount = 17) BEGIN
  PATCH_PRINT ~Extending thief skill Dex modifier table for Dex < 9...~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 0 8 ~tempdex~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 1 8 ~temppickpocket~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 2 8 ~tempopenlocks~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 3 8 ~tempfindtraps~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 4 8 ~tempmovesil~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 5 8 ~temphide~
  READ_2DA_ENTRY 0 7 8 ~tempsettraps~
  WHILE (tempdex > 1) BEGIN
	SET tempdex		= tempdex		- 1
	SET temppickpocket = temppickpocket - 5
	SET tempopenlocks  = tempopenlocks  - 5
	SET tempmovesil	= tempmovesil	- 5
	SET temphide	   = temphide	   - 5
	PATCH_IF ((tempdex / 2) = ((tempdex+1) / 2)) BEGIN // decrease half as fast
	  SET tempfindtraps  = tempfindtraps  - 5
	  SET tempsettraps   = tempsettraps   - 5
	END
	INSERT_2DA_ROW 0 8 ~%tempdex%		   %temppickpocket%			 %tempopenlocks%			 %tempfindtraps%			 %tempmovesil%				  %temphide%				0			  %tempsettraps%~
  END
END
 BUT_ONLY_IF_IT_CHANGES

 

... so real clumsy thieves are properly penalized. The stock table only goes down to DEX 9.

 

(From the upcoming Full Plate & PS v2)

 

[DrAzTiK]

Sorry to contaminate your topic. I would like to ask some questions about dexterity penality in heavy armor.

 

What is the real purpose of dexterity penality in heavy armor ? Reduce thac0 for ranged weapons or reduce a litle AC of heavy armor?? or both??

 

Don't you think it fails for character with low dexterity ?? It's not fair at all coz a character with 14 dexterity will be not penalized at all..

 

Why don't you do for heavey armor the same thing you have done for large shield : a thac0 penality for ALL characters. ( not only characters with a good dexterity)

 

And don't you think it should be logical for a warrior in heavy armor to have a thac0 penality for ranged weapons AND melee weapons.

 

ty

[Mike1072]

... so real clumsy thieves are properly penalized. The stock table only goes down to DEX 9.

 

(From the upcoming Full Plate & PS v2)

Hmm, okay, probably wouldn't hurt. Regarding your code: why the decreased rate for Find/Set Traps? Also, I think the Fixpack already extends this down to DEX 1 with duplicates of the DEX 9 row.

 

Don't you think it fails for character with low dexterity ?? It's not fair at all coz a character with 14 dexterity will be not penalized at all..

Yeah, it would be nicer if the BG2 tables weren't so lame. I'd have done something to fix them myself by now if I could decide what I wanted to do with exceptional strength (STR/--). Demi should be able to answer your other questions.

[Icendoan]

I can confirm that the fixpack does add more rows, all duplicates of DEX9 (from checking my game)

 

Icen

[erik]

Decreased rate - simply because the stock tables have two equal numbers in a row for those for 10 and 9. Flimsy reasoning, I know

 

Bah. Fixpack already modifies it? May as well not bother, then. Ah well.

[Demivrgvs]

What is the real purpose of dexterity penality in heavy armor ? Reduce thac0 for ranged weapons or reduce a litle AC of heavy armor?? or both??

Both. A character in heavy armor cannot move and dodge attacks as quickly as with a lighter armor, even if extremely agile he just cannot move quickly.

 

Don't you think it fails for character with low dexterity ?? It's not fair at all coz a character with 14 dexterity will be not penalized at all..

Partially yes, mostly because 2nd edition tables for STR, DEX and CON are quite lame imo. There's no difference at all from 10 to 14 and then it suddenly increase too quickly. I think 3rd edition tables are much better, but changing them in BG would be a really noticeable change.

 

The way I see it dexterity penalties are not "penalties" but "limitations": low characters are already slow and they can't dodge attacks with dexterity even in light armor, while agile characters can dodge attacks quite well, but only in light armors which don't encumber them.

[DrAzTiK]

thanks for yours answers Demivrgvs and Mike. It's a long time I complain about this lol

 

Of course 2nd edition tables for STR, DEX and CON are lame.

 

After all, there is not many characters with 14 in DEX. It's just i don't like unfairness ^^

 

GJ et ty for this mod