DavidW Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I didn't make a lot of noise about it, but along with the inclusion of BG2 spells in SCS v9, there was quite a big "under-the-hood" change in the way spell allocation is handled in SCS. In versions 1-8, I took the vanilla game's spell allocations as a starting point, and then applied a substitution algorithm that swapped useless spells for useful spells (I erred on the side of variety, and didn't swap merely "not optimal" spells). I then did defensive precasting, and occasional recasting, "on the side", guessing the numbers of pre-cast spells used to make sure creatures stayed basically within their limits. Unfortunately, the developers were extraordinarily capricious in their spell allocations, and often gave far too few spells - sometimes no spells - to casters. Also, the range of spells they use is quite small, which leads to repetitiveness (a common objection to SCS/SCSII mage battles). In version 9, I wiped the vanilla spell choices entirely and built them from the ground up, according to a moderately complicated algorithm. In the process, I allocate single class mages one of four speciality types - necromancer, conjurer, evoker, enchanter - and use that speciality type to choose their spells. (I stay inside the formal rules for specialities, but more importantly I try to choose the bulk of combat spells to fit the "style" of the speciality type.) The immediate pressure to do something like this was the need to handle BG2 spells in version 9. But I also hoped it would have some extra benefits: - spellcasters having more sensible numbers of spells, and not casting too many or too few at any given level - more variety in mage tactics, because of the variety of speciality types - improved running speed. There's now a separate mage and priest script for each type (cleric/druid/specialist) and for each spell level (so that 1st level wizards don't have redundant scripting for Cone of Cold). These are generated automatically from a core template (this uses SSL functionality that wasn't available when I originally started work on SCSII). - easier compatibility with Spell Revisions and Spell Pack (that's a fringe benefit of the recoding structure: it makes allowing for extra spells easier) I'd be quite interested if anyone has any thoughts on how well or badly all this works in game. In the medium term I'll probably bring it into SCSII. Link to comment
Salk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 DavidW, sorry to not be able to provide any feedback for the moment but let me tell you that the changes introduced to give varation to the spellcasting enemies are really very welcome. I worked before about finding an appropriate kit for each BG1 NPC. I would happily share with you my search and compare my collected infos with yours. I individuated several NPCs whose specializations/kits were explicitely suggested by the game itself. About wizards, I'd like to ask you: was there a specific reason why transmuter, abjurer and illusionist have been left out? And also, could a similar algorithm be extended in the future to divine casters as well? Thanks! Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 DavidW, sorry to not be able to provide any feedback for the moment but let me tell you that the changes introduced to give varation to the spellcasting enemies are really very welcome. I worked before about finding an appropriate kit for each BG1 NPC. I would happily share with you my search and compare my collected infos with yours. I individuated several NPCs whose specializations/kits were explicitely suggested by the game itself. The way the current algorithm works is (i) there's an override list, so if I want someone to be a particular speciality, s/he is (ii) failing that, if the game already assigns a speciality, we go with that (iii) failing that, there's a 25% chance of each possibility, chosen at install time On balance I'd rather not assign specialities by hand unless there's a clear reason (tactical or realism-based) because I think it helps replay value (not least my own!) to have a bit of randomness. So I probably can't use a systematic list; thanks for the offer, though. About wizards, I'd like to ask you: was there a specific reason why transmuter, abjurer and illusionist have been left out? Let me try to recall... - Transmuters don't have access to abjuration magic. This messes up the standard defensive-spell code, given how many defensive spells are abjurations, so it would be a lot of work to work around it; also, transmuters are going to be incredibly vulnerable. There also aren't all that many distinctive alteration combat spells, iirc, though that was secondary. - Abjurers: I think it's as simple as them not having access to Stoneskin. (This isn't the end of the world in BG1 but it's pretty disastrous in BG2, and I was trying to write code that would carry over to SCSII relatively easily). As a secondary feature, it's not really clear what interesting role an abjurer would play in combat (except in an individually scripted encounter with a dedicated dispeller). - Illusionists don't have any obviously sexy special style of offensive combat. (In PnP, where illusions properly exist, this would be different.) So it's not clear what a specialist illusionist would do that would make him interesting. (Also, they don't have access to Death Spell, which is a pain, though not disastrous, in BG2.) And also, could a similar algorithm be extended in the future to divine casters as well? What's the analogy of speciality schools? (I do already distinguish clerics from druids, and good clerics from evil ones - though the latter is pretty minor.) Link to comment
Shaitan Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Hi! I'll give it a shot. First: I never got to play v9, but I've been through v8 three times (cleric, mage and F/M). This time (C/M) I'm having a really hard time! Using v10 really is/feels different than the older v8. I've reloaded quiet a lot, and the overall impression (I just got into Baldurs Gate not touching Durlags Tower so far) is really good: - Tarnesh: Did he use Necromantic spells? I remember him as tougher I actually went back for Kivan and Ajantis before facing him. - Silke: I had to withdraw and postpone that fight as she continued to hand me my own rear end! I like when you get to think a little about a fight ... and the possibility to wait with the fight/not to fight is really an improvement IMO. I took her out after doing the Nashkel Mines - and then in the first try - Mulahey: He seemed a bit tougher - at least I got to reload a couple of times - Nimbul: I had to use the help of the Nashkel guards this time, and that cost me two reloads this time. Tough guy and fun fight. - Tranzig was a bit dissapointing. Kivan Nailed him in the first try. - Lendarn: I still haven't beaten him: He somehow seems better - Tazoks tent was tough this time: It took four reloads - and I lost Jaheira and Immy. - The druids in the Cloakwoods really was hard, those kicking Beador (from BG1NPC) really took forever to kill - and I had to run a bit And that archdruid - wow! Fire elementals in BG1 - Daevorn was much more fun than he used to be - beating him was hard. Really clever use of spells if you ask me. - I dared not approach the Red wizards but I will eventually and the same with the Ice Island. - As a sidenote it also feels like spiders has been toughened up?? - Ahhh and I'm forgetting Bassilus who gives an interesting fight. It's hard to tell the impressions spell by spell (stoneskin/ironskin is great if I should name one spell for opponents), but as a whole the adventure is 1) tougher 2) more fun 3) seems more in line with BG2. // Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods // The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod // ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version] ~EASYTUTUDEGREENIFIER.TP2~ #0 #0 // EasyTutu Degreenifier ~SETUP-HARDTIMES.TP2~ #0 #0 // Hard Times v1 ~SETUP-HARDTIMES.TP2~ #0 #1 // Hard Times: Ulcaster School Encounter ~BGQE/SETUP-BGQE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Baldur's Gate Mini-Quests and Encounters Mod: 4.1 ~SETUP-SIRINESCALL.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Lure of the Sirine's Call: v8 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #2 // The BG1 NPC Project: Give Edwin his BG2 portrait.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #3 // The BG1 NPC Project: Give Imoen her BG2 portrait.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #4 // The BG1 NPC Project: Give Jaheira her BG2 portrait.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #5 // The BG1 NPC Project: Give Minsc his BG2 portrait.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #6 // The BG1 NPC Project: Give Viconia her BG2 portrait.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #8 // The BG1 NPC Project: Add Non-Joinable NPC portraits to quests and dialogues: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #9 // The BG1 NPC Project: Ajantis Romance Core (teen content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #10 // The BG1 NPC Project: Branwen's Romance Core (teen content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #11 // The BG1 NPC Project: Coran's Romance Core (adult content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #12 // The BG1 NPC Project: Dynaheir's Romance Core (teen content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #13 // The BG1 NPC Project: Shar-Teel Relationship Core (adult content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #14 // The BG1 NPC Project: Xan's Romance Core (teen content): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #15 // The BG1 NPC Project: Female Romance Challenges, Ajantis vs Xan vs Coran: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #16 // The BG1 NPC Project: NPCs can be sent to wait in an inn: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #18 // The BG1 NPC Project: Alora's Starting Location -> Alora Starts in Gullykin.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #20 // The BG1 NPC Project: Eldoth's Starting Location -> Eldoth Starts on the Coast Way.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #22 // The BG1 NPC Project: Quayle's Starting Location -> Quayle Starts at the Nashkel Carnival.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #24 // The BG1 NPC Project: Tiax's Starting Location -> Tiax Starts in Beregost.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #25 // Jason Compton's Accelerated Banter Script.: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #27 // The BG1 NPC Project: Bardic Reputation Adjustment: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #29 // The BG1 NPC Project: Cloakwood areas availability in Chapter One -> Open four Cloakwood areas (everything but the Mines): v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #30 // The BG1 NPC Project: Sarevok's Diary Adjustments -> SixofSpades Extended Sarevok's Diary: v16 ~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #200 // The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues: v16 ~BG1NPCMUSIC/BG1NPCMUSIC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project Music Pack -> Install All Audio: v5 ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ice Island Level Two Restoration ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Mysterious Vial ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #2 // Additional Elminster Encounter ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #8 // Safana the Flirt ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #9 // Appropriate Albert and Rufie Reward ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Place Entar Silvershield in His Home ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #11 // Scar and the Sashenstar's Daughter ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #12 // Quoningar, the Cleric ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #13 // Shilo Chen and the Ogre-Magi ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #14 // Edie, the Merchant League Applicant ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #15 // Flaming Fist Mercenary Reinforcements ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #16 // Creature Corrections ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #17 // Creature Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #18 // Creature Name Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #20 // Audio Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #21 // Store, Tavern and Inn Fixes and Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #22 // Item Corrections and Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #23 // Area Corrections and Restorations ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #24 // Permanent Corpses ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #25 // Elven Charm and Sleep Racial Resistance ~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #26 // The Original Saga Music Playlist Corrections ~XANBG2VOICE/SETUP-XANBG2VOICE.TP2~ #0 #0 // Xan's BG2 voice for BG1, v2 ~XANBG1FRIEND/SETUP-XANBG1FRIEND.TP2~ #0 #0 // Xan's friendship path for BG1, v5 ~AJANTISBG1/SETUP-AJANTISBG1.TP2~ #0 #0 // Installs Ajantis BG1 Expansion Modification: 2.1 ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ #0 #0 // Gavin NPC for Tutu and BGT, 14April2008: v3.1 ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ #0 #1 // Gavin: Romance (mature content): v3.1 ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ #0 #2 // Gavin: Flirts (adult content): v3.1 ~GAVIN/GAVIN.TP2~ #0 #10 // Gavin: Player Initiated Dialogue: v3.1 ~IIPROJECTILER/SETUP-IIPROJECTILER.TP2~ #0 #2001 // Projectile Retrieval Mod -> Easy TUTU ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #0 // Proper dual-wielding implementation for Thieves and Bards: v4.02 ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #1 // Thief kit revisions: v4.02 ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #3 // Proper racial adjustments for thieving skills: v4.02 ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #4 // Bard kit revisions: v4.02 ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #7 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards: v4.02 ~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #9 // Revised Thievery -> Use PnP thievery potions and prevent their effects from stacking: v4.02 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Nythrun's Level 1 NPCs: List party-joinable NPCs (required to install any other components): v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #3 // Joinable NPCs more closely match the player character's experience?: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1218 // Ajantis Ilvastarr: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1206 // Imoen: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1207 // Jaheira: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1227 // Khalid: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1228 // Kivan: v1.1 ~LEVEL1NPCS/LEVEL1NPCS.TP2~ #0 #1212 // Minsc: v1.1 ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Remove Helmet Animations ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #70 // Icewind Dale Casting Graphics (Andyr) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Commoners Use Drab Colors ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #120 // Change Avatar When Wearing Robes or Armor (Galactygon) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1090 // Exotic Item Pack ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Reveal City Maps When Entering Area ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1110 // Add Map Notes ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1140 // Gems and Potions Require Identification ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2060 // Weapon Styles for All ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2090 // Change Experience Point Cap -> Remove Experience Cap ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2170 // Cast Spells from Scrolls (and Other Items) at Character Level ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2192 // Limit Ability of Storekeepers to Identify Items -> Hybrid of Both Methods ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2200 // Multi-Class Grandmastery (Weimer) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // True Grandmastery (Baldurdash) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2240 // Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2261 // Alter Mage Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2271 // Alter Bard Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2281 // Alter Cleric Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2291 // Alter Druid Spell and Level Progression Tables -> No Level Progression Changes, PnP Druid/Cleric Spell Table Only ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2312 // Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters (BETA) -> Arcane & Divine Magic ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Remove "You Must Gather Your Party..." Sound (Weimer) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Unlimited Ammo Stacking ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3090 // Unlimited Gem and Jewelry Stacking ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3100 // Unlimited Potion Stacking ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3110 // Unlimited Scroll Stacking ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items (Icelus) ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Adjust Evil joinable NPC reaction rolls ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4031 // Consistent Stats: Edwin -> Use BG2 Values ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4041 // Consistent Stats: Jaheira -> Use BG2 Values ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Change Jaheira to Neutral Good ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4061 // Consistent Stats: Minsc -> Use BG2 Values ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4071 // Consistent Stats: Viconia -> Use BG2 Values ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Shared files (required): v2 ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #1 // Divine spells: v2 ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #2 // Arcane spells: v2 ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #3 // Cure Sleep Fix: v2 ~SPELL_REV/SETUP-SPELL_REV.TP2~ #0 #4 // SCS Fiends Hot Fix: v2 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Detectable Spells: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #20 // Allow enemy AI to detect the party's magic items: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #30 // Correct various errors on race, class etc: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Make Protection from Normal Missiles block magical missiles -> No magical missiles penetrate Protection from Normal Missiles: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More consistent Breach spell (doesn't penetrate Spell Turning): v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1030 // Iron Skins behaves like Stoneskin (can be brought down by Breach): v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1040 // Reduce the power of Inquisitors' Dispel Magic -> Inquisitors dispel at 1.5 x their level (not twice their level): v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2000 // Make elemental arrows more like their BG2 counterparts: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Replace many magic weapons with fine ones -> Fine weapons are affected by the iron crisis: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Re-introduce potions of extra-healing: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Standardise spells: BG1 vs BG2 -> Introduce BG2 spell scrolls into BG1: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3010 // Faster Bears: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3070 // Move NPCs to more convenient locations: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Improved shapeshifting: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3090 // Prevent party members from dying irreversibly: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Skip Candlekeep: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Remove blur effect from displacer cloak: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // Stackable ankheg shells and winterwolf pelts: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Ease-of-use player AI: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Smarter general AI: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Better calls for help: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5023 // Potions for NPCs -> Two thirds of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5033 // Smarter mages -> Mages use spells from BG1 and BG2; mages pre-buff: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5043 // Smarter priests -> Priests use spells from BG1 and BG2; priests pre-buff: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5050 // Smarter deployment: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5060 // Harder giant and phase spiders: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5070 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5080 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5090 // Smarter basilisks: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Improved doppelgangers: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6070 // Improved Durlag's Tower: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6080 // Improved Demon Cultists: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Improved Bassilus: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6110 // Improved Drasus party: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6120 // Improved Red Wizards: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6130 // Improved Undercity party: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6140 // Improved minor encounters: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6150 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6160 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6170 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6180 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6190 // Tougher chapter-six end battle: v10 ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved final battle: v10 ~FULLPLATE/SETUP-FULLPLATE.TP2~ #0 #1 // Full Plate And Packing Steel: Between You And Harm (alternate armour system): v1 ~FULLPLATE/SETUP-FULLPLATE.TP2~ #0 #102 // Full Plate And Packing Steel: Field Improvisation (convenience tweak, remove restrictions on combining protective items): v1 ~FULLPLATE/SETUP-FULLPLATE.TP2~ #0 #204 // Full Plate And Packing Steel: Little He Knows Where a Foe May Lurk (everyone can backstab at x2, thieves/assassins do better): v1 Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I didn't make a lot of noise about it, but along with the inclusion of BG2 spells in SCS v9, there was quite a big "under-the-hood" change in the way spell allocation is handled in SCS. In versions 1-8, I took the vanilla game's spell allocations as a starting point, and then applied a substitution algorithm that swapped useless spells for useful spells (I erred on the side of variety, and didn't swap merely "not optimal" spells). I then did defensive precasting, and occasional recasting, "on the side", guessing the numbers of pre-cast spells used to make sure creatures stayed basically within their limits. ... In version 9, I wiped the vanilla spell choices entirely and built them from the ground up, according to a moderately complicated algorithm. In the process, I allocate single class mages one of four speciality types - necromancer, conjurer, evoker, enchanter - and use that speciality type to choose their spells. (I stay inside the formal rules for specialities, but more importantly I try to choose the bulk of combat spells to fit the "style" of the speciality type.) The immediate pressure to do something like this was the need to handle BG2 spells in version 9. But I also hoped it would have some extra benefits: - spellcasters having more sensible numbers of spells, and not casting too many or too few at any given level - more variety in mage tactics, because of the variety of speciality types - improved running speed. There's now a separate mage and priest script for each type (cleric/druid/specialist) and for each spell level (so that 1st level wizards don't have redundant scripting for Cone of Cold). These are generated automatically from a core template (this uses SSL functionality that wasn't available when I originally started work on SCSII). - easier compatibility with Spell Revisions and Spell Pack (that's a fringe benefit of the recoding structure: it makes allowing for extra spells easier) What can I say...all of that sounds GREAT to say the least...if I'll ever manage to finally play a game I'll surely give you some feedback. I asked about it recently in a post for SCSII not knowing you already worked on it for SCS...I'd love to see it implemented in SCSII. Link to comment
Salk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 And also, could a similar algorithm be extended in the future to divine casters as well? What's the analogy of speciality schools? (I do already distinguish clerics from druids, and good clerics from evil ones - though the latter is pretty minor.) I did express myself badly. I meant to say, could a similar algorithm be extended so that divine users take advantage of a specific kit (in the case of clerics, accounting the alignment orientation)? Thanks for your answer! Link to comment
Salk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 ...I'd love to see it implemented in SCSII. Seconded, of course! Link to comment
Shaitan Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 ...I'd love to see it implemented in SCSII. Seconded, of course! ...and so on - we love you you know? Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 And also, could a similar algorithm be extended in the future to divine casters as well? What's the analogy of speciality schools? (I do already distinguish clerics from druids, and good clerics from evil ones - though the latter is pretty minor.) I did express myself badly. I meant to say, could a similar algorithm be extended so that divine users take advantage of a specific kit (in the case of clerics, accounting the alignment orientation)? Thanks for your answer! Technically speaking, no problem. But as far as I can recall, the BG2 priest kits don't really have much in the way of spell differentiation. Also, while it's not implausible to make most mages in BG(2) into specialists, it's not realistic to make most priests in BG(2) into worshippers of Lathander/Helm/Talos. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 SCSII... and so on - we love you, you know? Yeah I am with this crowd, as long as you, DavidW, understand that there is no pressure for you to do it right now, if it's not ready, yet. Technically speaking, no problem. But as far as I can recall, the BG2 priest kits don't really have much in the way of spell differentiation. Also, while it's not implausible to make most mages in BG(2) into specialists, it's not realistic to make most priests in BG(2) into worshippers of Lathander/Helm/Talos. What about the other kits from the Divine Remix(or system very similar to it)... as I am not OK with forcing the PC to choose from the spell Kits, but if the AIs could, they should. Link to comment
Salk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 And also, could a similar algorithm be extended in the future to divine casters as well? What's the analogy of speciality schools? (I do already distinguish clerics from druids, and good clerics from evil ones - though the latter is pretty minor.) I did express myself badly. I meant to say, could a similar algorithm be extended so that divine users take advantage of a specific kit (in the case of clerics, accounting the alignment orientation)? Thanks for your answer! Technically speaking, no problem. But as far as I can recall, the BG2 priest kits don't really have much in the way of spell differentiation. Also, while it's not implausible to make most mages in BG(2) into specialists, it's not realistic to make most priests in BG(2) into worshippers of Lathander/Helm/Talos. Yes, I do believe you have a point there. It's just that it'd be great to see variation also outside the wizard class which ends up being the class SCS keeps on refining the most (don't get me wrong, I love that... I just feel sorry for the others ) Thanks again for everything, DavidW! Link to comment
DavidW Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 SCSII... and so on - we love you, you know? Yeah I am with this crowd, as long as you, DavidW, understand that there is no pressure for you to do it right now, if it's not ready, yet. Don't worry, there isn't. I'm not in any hurry with the next version of SCSII, I'm quite caught up in other things for the moment. Technically speaking, no problem. But as far as I can recall, the BG2 priest kits don't really have much in the way of spell differentiation. Also, while it's not implausible to make most mages in BG(2) into specialists, it's not realistic to make most priests in BG(2) into worshippers of Lathander/Helm/Talos. What about the other kits from the Divine Remix(or system very similar to it)... as I am not OK with forcing the PC to choose from the spell Kits, but if the AIs could, they should. It's doable. I'm not sure the game is worth the candle, though - there aren't really all that many priests in the game in the first place (certainly not relative to the mages). Link to comment
Wisp Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I played v9 without most the the tactical components, but spellcasters used BG2 spells. I can't say I noticed any startling differences in what spells they cast. If you knew what specialist school they belonged to, you could usually see which spells they used because of it, bit otherwise it did not really stand out. Krystin ended up being a Necromancer and used Vampiric Touch (probably the only time I saw a mage use it). I thought the two Invokers I know I came across were short on proper fireworks. But since many Evocation spells are not party friendly, I imagine it is difficult. Davaeron was an Invoker and he did cast Stinking Cloud, but since I had removed his Minor Globe, he fell unconscious from his own cloud. Tellan summoned a Nishruu (only one I encountered) but also cast True Sight. So if he was supposed to be a Conjurer, there was that. It seemed like they all shared the same foundation, but had different elaborations based on their specialist school. Everyone used Stoneskin and Minor Sequencer and almost everyone used staple spells like Chaos, Minute Meteors, (Minor) Globe of Invulnerability etc. I guess this is by design and that specialists would become more noticeable in BG2 where they have more spell slots left after the essentials are covered. It would be "nice" to see more differentiation in BG1 as well, but this would presumably come at the expense of the "foundation" (which may not necessarily be a bad thing, but would likely make them more vulnerable and/or deprive them of very useful spells). Obviously, in cases where there is one really good spell (e.g. Chaos), the sensible thing is to use it, regardless of specialisation (except for Invokers in this case). But spells like that could be replaced by spells of the appropriate school, in case greater specialisation is desirable. Re-reading my post, I see that is is basically a verbose form of "more", but I really did like SCS v9 with BG2 spells when I played through it. If specialists do not become any more specialised, I'd still say it is great fun and be happy about the "little" specialisation there is. (If anything should be patently false or highly unlikely you can attribute it to bad memory on my part and disregard it.) Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.