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Blade vs F/I


Guest ksshan

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Guest ksshan

Wonder if the tactical experts here have anything to say about this.

 

Which would be a better

 

1) caster

2) fighter

 

Blade, or FI?

 

bearing in mind this is with un-nerfed spell progression tables, so bards can get up to lvl 8 spells.

 

I think, with minimal preperation, a F/I is better, but if the blade takes time to prep (singing clones, cheesy...), then the blade will probably be better

 

What do you guys think?

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Blade, or FI?
FI :mwaha: What's that?

If it's a Fighter...

If it's a Fighter->Illusionist...

Fighter/Illusionist...

 

What, I bet the F means Fighter, but what in the name of the unheaven does the I mean? :rolleyes: Mystery. You should know we can't read your mind.

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Well, depending on what rules are played with... but let's assume we use the Tweak packs level 50 rules or the like...

 

The fighter/illusionist would be my choice, if and when the party would have 1 other mage+thief/Imoen... a healer and at least another fighter... so the characters role would be caster/buffer/de-buffer/bombarer/fighter, but not a healer or a thief.

The bad thing about the race(Gnome) can't be compenceited, as the illusionist side might need the wisdom for the wishes, but it's not a big deal, in my book.

The loss of necromancy isn't big deal, least to me as my clerics usually summon the few skeletons I need, and the fireballs are mostly better than the skull traps. The only place where it hurts is the Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting, but Imoen can cast that and you get 10th level Comets, 9th level Meteor Swarm, so... once you get to those levels.

 

On the fighter side, the bard is really bad fighter on it's own, and the 50th level rules do not look well on this either as his thaco still hangs few marks behind even on level 50, and that's what fighters are for... although the bard can use the Holy Avenger sword, but the thaco still makes even that bad...

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I've never created a Blade, but when I use Haer'Dalis I'm impressed with the Offensive Spin skill. And with Belm also in the offhand the attacks per round get pretty good.

 

(Defensive Spin is also nice to have in a pinch, though I rarely find myself using it.)

 

With Stoneskin and Ghost Armor both the Blade and Fighter-Illusionist should be armored well enough; that's probably about a wash.

 

Not sure who would come out ahead melee-wise between these two classes... But I'm guessing Blade, at least for most of SoA. Not tremendously, though--a slight edge. Basically we're comparing two profs in weapons and higher THACO for a multiclass fighter versus Offensive Spin (increased attacks per round) for a Blade. In any event I don't think there will be a tremendous difference...

 

I forget if you can use Offensive Spin together with Tenser's Transformation. I.e., if a Blade has already used Offensive Spin and then casts Tenser's will the character retain the extra attacks per round from the class skill? Or will Tenser's reset attacks per round to the base score?...

 

On the other hand, the Fight-Illusionist will eventually get Greater Whirlwind.

 

The idea of a Blade casting Mislead or Simulacrum and then using Bard Song is very clever! I intend to try that next time I have Haer'Dalis in my party.

 

Myself, because I enjoy spellcasting more than any other skill in the game, I think I would prefer the Fighter-Illusionist. I just like being able to cast as many spells as possible.

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Actually, for a Fighter-Illusionist, I might be tempted to make a human Fighter 7 and dual him to Illusionist.

 

I always dual Fighters at level 7. Then you can play with both class skills from relatively early in the game. With five weapons profs to spend you can either go with grandmastery or put *** into dual-wielding and ** into a particular weapon.

 

Dual classing can definitely be worth the trouble. But I dislike starting at level 1 of the new class and waiting to get the original class skills back. I recognize that Fighter 13 is supposed to be optimal, but for my taste that's far too long of a wait to get the fighter skills back: 27 levels!

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Wait, what? It only has to be ONE past the old level, not one past double it!

 

IE, if you have a level 13 Fighter, like you say, and then dual it to mage, you need to get level 14 to get your fighter levels back. :rolleyes:

 

Icen

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Guest Guest

Why always dual Fighters at level 7 and not level 6 (when they get an extra star)? What is so special about level 7? I'm assuming of course that you're playing BG1/Tutu/BGT and can indeed dual at level 6.

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Yeah, sorry, I should have clarified that I almost always play the entire saga. So I'm starting from level 1. Guest-Guest may be right about the level 6 versus 7 distinction. I honestly can't quite remember what that 7th level gives (if anything). Maybe level 6 is in fact better.

 

I do recall that last time I did it, I sped up the process in BG1 as follows: Still very early in the game, I temorarily dropped any party members I had at that point in Beregost, and then soloed the bassilisk map. Just the bassilisks--not Mutamin or the band of adventurers. (I came back for them later.) Very early in the game those bassilisks are good for at least three levels.

 

IRT Icen, if you're starting out in a BG2 game, you begin as a 7th level fighter. To get to Fighter level 13 is 6 more levels. Then you'd dual class and start at Illusionist level 1. You'd need to get 14 levels as Illusionist to get your Fighter skills back. So that's 7 levels that are given at the outset. But 20 levels that you would have to play through to get both class skills. For me that's too much time without being able to enjoy the combination of both class skills together. Plus starting at level 1 of the new class! Ugh.

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Guest Guest

In my opinion

 

Better fighter > F/I

 

1. better thaco

2. more attacks per round

 

Blade has offensive spin, probably the best class ability in the game, but too bad it cannot be used with improved haste.

 

Better mage > Draw

 

F/I has slightly more spells and can cast up to lvl 9 spells, but blade can cast spells at higher lvl.

 

Better tank > blade

higher spell levels = more stoneskins + longer blur/ghost armor etc etc. Add in defensive spin and he is nigh unhittable.

 

BUT, if you are willing to buff and resort to certain tricks, then

 

7 x spike traps = win

3 x clones singing improved bard song = win

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Actually, for a Fighter-Illusionist, I might be tempted to make a human Fighter 7 and dual him to Illusionist.
Somebody just forgot the game engine, as you can't dual to a kit!

 

I always dual Fighters at level 7. Then you can play with both class skills from relatively early in the game. With five weapons profs to spend you can either go with grandmastery or put *** into dual-wielding and ** into a particular weapon.

 

Dual classing can definitely be worth the trouble. But I dislike starting at level 1 of the new class and waiting to get the original class skills back. I recognize that Fighter 13 is supposed to be optimal, but for my taste that's far too long of a wait to get the fighter skills back: 27 levels!

The grand mastery is good and all, but the +10 hitpoints per level and the extra 1/2 attack is still better.

 

Wait, what? It only has to be ONE past the old level, not one past double it!

IE, if you have a level 13 Fighter, like you say, and then dual it to mage, you need to get level 14 to get your fighter levels back. :mwaha:

13+14 is 27... :rolleyes:

 

Now if we look at the thaco table... link. And remember that the fighter/mage doesn't drop more than few levels(before the 15th level) behind bard in the fighter levels, so we know that F/I will have better thaco, always.

PS: Fighters/Illusionists also get the strbonus, unlike a bard.

The bards characteristics (stats) are hard to split to 5 stats(the charisma need to be 15, and Int 13), instead of the 4(Str,Con,Dex, Int) that the Fi/Il needs.

 

Why always dual Fighters at level 7 and not level 6 (when they get an extra star)? What is so special about level 7? I'm assuming of course that you're playing BG1/Tutu/BGT and can indeed dual at level 6.
It actually has nothing to do with the starting level, but the extra 1/2 attack one gets from the warrior class(fighter, paladin, ranger) at that point. The other half is given at level 13
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Actually, for a Fighter-Illusionist, I might be tempted to make a human Fighter 7 and dual him to Illusionist.
Somebody just forgot the game engine, as you can't dual to a kit!

 

Oops, I did indeed forget that. Mainly because I don't let that stand in my way, lol. I use Shadowkeeper to do that sort of thing.

 

Right now, for example, I'm playing a mutliclass Kensai-Mage that I started as a Fighter-Mage and added the Kensai kit via SK. It's been one of my favorite characters to date. He's not overpowered or anything. It's just fun to be able to use the Kai skill every now and then when he's meleeing. Come to think of it, though, the Kensai may enjoy some specific advantages over a fighter as he gains levels, although I can't remember what they are...

 

Another example: I once dualed a Berserker 7 to Cleric; then via Shadowkeeper changed Cleric to the Priest of Talos kit. Once again, it didn't result in any sort of uber character. It just added a little something extra to the gameplay experience.

 

Changes like that aren't unbalancing, imo (especially with SCS/SCSII installed). And the variety adds fun.

 

Why always dual Fighters at level 7 and not level 6 (when they get an extra star)? What is so special about level 7? I'm assuming of course that you're playing BG1/Tutu/BGT and can indeed dual at level 6.
It actually has nothing to do with the starting level, but the extra 1/2 attack one gets from the warrior class(fighter, paladin, ranger) at that point. The other half is given at level 13

 

Thanks, I knew there was some advantage, I just couldn't remember specifically what it was.

 

Jarno, what do you think, though, about all the extra attacks per round that a Blade gets throughout the game via the Offensive Spin skill? The Fighter is going to take a while to get Greater Whirlwind...

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Come to think of it, though, the Kensai may enjoy some specific advantages over a fighter as he gains levels, although I can't remember what they are...
Just +1/3 level to thaco and damage... not a great thing if you really thing about, no.whistling.gif

 

Another example: I once dualed a Berserker 7 to Cleric; then via Shadowkeeper changed Cleric to the Priest of Talos kit. Once again, it didn't result in any sort of uber character. It just added a little something extra to the gameplay experience.

...

Jarno, what do you think, though, about all the extra attacks per round that a Blade gets throughout the game via the Offensive Spin skill? The Fighter is going to take a while to get Greater Whirlwind...

Well, I myself like the Improved haste more, and the extra attacks improve the Improved Hastes effect :rolleyes: ... so I take that any day, and it lasts more than the 24 seconds.
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I always dual class at fighter level 9. This is better than dualling at level 7 because your HP is still going up by 10 + con bonus per level, and you get an extra proficiency point. It is also better than level 13 because the experience you need to re-activate your fighter skills is much, much lower than at 13. So much so infact, that 12 HP, 4 THAC0 an extra proficiency point and an extra 1/2 attack per round in no way make up for the time wasted. In this case, the experience required for a 9/10 F/M is 500,000 (chapter 2 after 1 stronghold quest will put you near or past this) compared to 2,750,000 (chapter 4 at the very earliest, unless you are soloing) for a 13/14 F/M.

 

With regards to the Fighter/Illusionist multi-class, Gnomes get good saving throw bonuses compared to humans and elves (for the Blade) and Improved Haste + Critical Strike is so unbelievably powerful compared to Greater Whirlwind, particularly if you take advantage of dual-wielding Belm or Kundane with a powerful main hand weapon such as the Flail of Ages.

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Improved Haste + Critical Strike is so unbelievably powerful compared to Greater Whirlwind
Critical strike does little good. It provides autohit, but rarely double damage, as most of the enemies have something in their helm slot.

And WW with a two-hander can dish out about 250 damage in a round. On the other hand Imp Haste lasts twenty times longer.

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