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not so. as solo sorcerers and solo mages, mind blank would be incredibly useful. especially with the amount of mind affecting magics out and about, not to mention that once charmed you're dead in the eyes of the game. mind blank would be invaluable. vanilla 8th had nearly no good spells, save trigger, wilting and incidiary. now with the pro-elements we have 4. arguably ggoi is usable, but its not part of 2.ed afaik atleast. mind blank is. and least of all it should not be kept out of arcane spell selection because something simillar is in the divine.

I second this. If I'm the solo arcane caster, how I'm supposed to counter tons of mind-affecting things out there? Don't mention potions, it's for lesser classes like warriors ! :)

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vanilla 8th had nearly no good spells, save trigger, wilting and incidiary. now with the pro-elements we have 4. arguably ggoi is usable, but its not part of 2.ed afaik atleast. mind blank is. and least of all it should not be kept out of arcane spell selection because something simillar is in the divine.

 

Vanilla 8th level had several other good spells: PW: Blind was almost OP in Vanilla, Maze and Simulacrum were excellent, and Vanilla Pro Energy was vastly better than most people thought, particularly for Solo Sorcerers who could use it to shrug off all magic damage types without wasting slots on lower level protections.

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I really like the change from Remove Curse to Break Enchantment, but it would be very useful if Break Enchantment was also able to remove stun effects. I am not sure if stun is considered to be non-magical, though. :)

 

Also, is it possible to make a "Greater Dispel Magic" type spell that would give, for example, a 5-level caster bonus to the dispel roll?

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Vanilla 8th level had several other good spells: PW: Blind was almost OP in Vanilla, Maze and Simulacrum were excellent, and Vanilla Pro Energy was vastly better than most people thought, particularly for Solo Sorcerers who could use it to shrug off all magic damage types without wasting slots on lower level protections.

 

pw blind was op, and i dont concern myself with cheesy spells. simulacrum doesent work for everybody, it depends on how you play. i never use that or project image because it makes me feel like a dirty cheater :) vanilla pro energy offered 75% protection from everything. that meant you could "almost" shrug of anything. combinded with pro elements you would be immune to everything but acid, but that hardly matterd as the 'take damage' animation would still be in effect and disrupt any and all but the quickest spells. maze has never been a spell worth a 8th level slot, and i suspect thats why ALL tactic mods made the npc mages switch it. this is all besides the point anyway. no matter how many and who thinks what spells are usefull, mind blank should be apart of the arcane library!

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maze has never been a spell worth a 8th level slot, and i suspect thats why ALL tactic mods made the npc mages switch it.

 

SCSII uses it occasionally (1/4 of enchanters' 8th level combat slots). Variety is the spice of life.

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8th lvl spells

I really like the change from Remove Curse to Break Enchantment, but it would be very useful if Break Enchantment was also able to remove stun effects. I am not sure if stun is considered to be non-magical, though. :D

 

Also, is it possible to make a "Greater Dispel Magic" type spell that would give, for example, a 5-level caster bonus to the dispel roll?

Remove Paralysis already works against stun, but I guess your concern is that such spell is not available to mages unlike Break Enchantment. That being said, I think too many times stun is not caused by an Enchantment spell or spell-like ability.

 

Greater Dispel Magic was introduced only with 3rd edition, and even if I don't have much against it I don't think it would add much to the game either, other than making bards better than inquisitors at dispelling. Furthermore it would need a 6th lvl spell slot, and those are already kinda full. It might be more interesting something like Otiluke's Dispelling Screen to add some spice, but it's hard to tell how it would fit the game, and the AI wouldn't be able to use it unless a modded AI takes it into account.

 

Vanilla 8th level had several other good spells: PW: Blind was almost OP in Vanilla, Maze and Simulacrum were excellent, and Vanilla Pro Energy was vastly better than most people thought, particularly for Solo Sorcerers who could use it to shrug off all magic damage types without wasting slots on lower level protections.
pw blind was op, and i dont concern myself with cheesy spells. simulacrum doesent work for everybody, it depends on how you play. i never use that or project image because it makes me feel like a dirty cheater :) vanilla pro energy offered 75% protection from everything. that meant you could "almost" shrug of anything. combinded with pro elements you would be immune to everything but acid, but that hardly matterd as the 'take damage' animation would still be in effect and disrupt any and all but the quickest spells. maze has never been a spell worth a 8th level slot, and i suspect thats why ALL tactic mods made the npc mages switch it. this is all besides the point anyway. no matter how many and who thinks what spells are usefull, mind blank should be apart of the arcane library!

Vanilla's PW:Blind was OP yes, but both SCS and SR tweaks it (though the former probably did it for for AI friendliness rather than balance reasons) and I think it now is more or less balanced and extremely effective (in theory it's uber easy to counter it with any character able to cast 3rd lvl divine spells but the AI cannot cope with it much).

 

Within SR both Project Image and Simulacrum cannot be exploited anymore and are both very effective. Simulacrum in particular is outstanding imo.

 

Protection from Energy wasn't very appealing imo because of the "damage animation issue", but now it's an incredible defensive layer.

 

Maze was, and still is higly understimated imo. I'm glad SCS uses it because I think it can be used to a great effect to remove from the battlefield the most dangerous threats (e.g. melee characters generally don't have high INT) and thus potentially change the tide of the battle. It's not a straightforward spell like Horrid Wilting, but in some circumstances it can be great.

 

 

Mind Blank

That being said my "issue" with Mind Blank is not that I don't have space for it, but that I don't like it to be a mere arcane copy of Chaotic Commands that uses a spell slot three lvls higher, and that I kinda liked mages to not be as good "buffers" as clerics. I cannot nerf CC nor I think it should be nerfed, thus if we really cannot live without this spell (I can) I need to convince myself that Mind Blank has advantages worth its much higher spell slot. Let's see:

* it last a full day (8 hours is the max cap within SR to avoid the "rest exploit") but CC lasts more than enough (up to 4 hours)

* it protects from fear (Spook, Horror, etc)

* it should protect from few Divination spells like Know Opponent, which the AI never uses, or Know Alignment, which is completely useless

* I'm not sure but judging by its PnP description I think it should protect from spells like Doom, Chant, Emotion, and probably even Malison (am I wrong?)

 

What do you think? :)

Edited by Demivrgvs
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Mind Blank

That being said my "issue" with Mind Blank is not that I don't have space for it, but that I don't like it to be a mere arcane copy of Chaotic Commands that uses a spell slot three lvls higher, and that I kinda liked mages to not be as good "buffers" as clercis. I cannot nerf CC nor I think it should be nerfed, thus if we really cannot live without this spell (I can) I need to convince myself that Mind Blank has advantages worth its much higher spell slot. Let's see:

* it last a full day (8 hours is the max cap within SR to avoid the "rest exploit") but CC lasts more than enough (up to 4 hours)

* it protects from fear (Spook, Horror, etc)

* it should protect from few Divination spells like Know Opponent, which the AI never uses, or Know Alignment, which is completely useless

* I'm not sure but judging by its PnP description I think it should protect from spells like Doom, Chant, Emotion, and probably even Malison (am I wrong?)

 

What do you think?

well, it would be a copy, in a sense. but i havent seen CC in the 2.ed handbook. so in terms of 'reality' CC would be a copy of mind blank.. the effects of mind blank should be as described, but im unsure if it should effect GM though. but i think its about high time wizards got their own counter to mind flayers and those charming lady-demons :)

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Chaotic Commands (Enchantment/Charm)

Sphere: Chaos

Range: Touch

Components: V, S, M

Duration: 1 turn/level

Casting Time: 3

Area of Effect: One creature

Saving Throw: Special

Chaotic commands renders a creature immune to magical commands. Taunt, forget, suggestion, domination, geas, demand, succor, command, enthrall, quest, exaction, and other spells that place a direct verbal command upon a single individual automatically fail.

In addition, anyone casting one of these spells on a creature protected by chaotic commands must save vs. spell. Failure means that the caster must obey his own magic; the spell's effect has backfired on the caster.

The material component is a piece of eelskin.

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Mind Blank vs. Chaotic Command

I think that adding Mind Blank isn't so bad idea. Fact that someone is a wizard doesn't make it impossible to him to have some more interesting protections. Clerics can use very non-effective and penalised version of Spell Deflection - why Wizard cannot try this.

 

Chaotic Command in PnP granted protection from orders and compulsing anything on caster. So it was making him immune to Charm, to Command, to Hold. But for example it didn't touched in any way spells like Confusion or Chaos. But, because it's BG2 and we don't know why but Bioware used Chaotic Command instead of Impregnable Mind (as in IWD) - it protects from everything. My proposition is to make them work like this:

 

Impregnable Mind: protects against all enchantments affecting mind. Spells like charm/domination, hold, feeblemind, confusion/chaos.

Mind Blank: protects against any spells affecting mind. Spook, Phantasmal Killer, Know Opponent, Emotion, Doom. Shouldn't protect against any psionics I think. Should it allow to gain benefits from positive spells (Bless, Emotion: Courage, Wondrous Recall?).

Impervious Sanctity of Mind: protects agains all enchantments affecting mind and most of psionic attacks.

Edited by yarpen
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I too have grown to see arcane magic as less supportive than it's divine counterpart, so I's try to avoid duplicating CC in wizard's spellbook, unless it is worse in some regard. MB is ok, since it uses much much more expensive slot than CC.

And then, does anybody remember Spell Immunity and the idea to remove it from the game? In this light, MB makes a perfect substitute for SI:Ench.

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one could make MB only affect the caster, that would put it sub par CC in terms of team-buffing. it was discribed that way in at least one of the rulebooks.

 

SI is a right mess and should be deleted.. in most cases it does work, but for it to work to specs it should in reality block timestop too...

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And then, does anybody remember Spell Immunity and the idea to remove it from the game? In this light, MB makes a perfect substitute for SI:Ench.

 

Yay for that, really! Our current roster looks like this:

Non-detection as minor SI: Divination (allows save for detection).

Impregnable Mind and Mind Blank as SI: Enchantments.

Death Ward as minor SI: Necromancy (only against deadly effects).

Spell Shield as limited SI: Abjuration.

Other protection spells are good substitute for SI: Evocation.

 

And I think that it looks much better than terribly overpowered Spell Immunity.

 

And yes for MB being caster-only. Buffs are for clerics!

Edited by yarpen
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