Viconia SHUT UP!

[Guest monsterman]

ok first off hi all and npc project is amazing to say the least but one thing bothers big time. viconia never wants to shut up, she has TOO F'N MANY interjections and it's BAD and overdone, soo many more than other npcs to the point it's extremely unrealistic and annoying. it's like everytime one of my other npc has an interjection, she already has over 20 interjections since the last one. she has a comment on every single tiny thing. some suggestions are giving other npcs more interjections too to kinda make her less annoying. or during some of the interjections let other npcs to tell her to stfu. or simply just give the pc an option to tell her to STFU.

 

i understand the effort u guys put into this project and thank you to everyone involved. i hope something can be done. thank you very much.

[berelinde]

Each NPC was written by a different author, so each will have a different number of interjection. Viconia does have a lot, but it's probably the nature of the interjections that annoys you as much as the frequency. She's rather opinionated, and not shy about letting you know it.

 

Unfortunately, the folks who are left are "maintainers," as opposed to authors, and we can't change the content.

 

The best I can tell you is to avoid taking some of the heavy interjectors into the party. Viconia has the most, IIRC. Jaheira's got a lot, too, as does Xan. Faldorn and Shar-Teel have more than you'd think. Kivan's got a bunch, but they're kind of unobtrusive.

 

If you're looking for an evil cleric who isn't so chatty, you could try Tiax. He's got very few interjections. Of course, some people might consider him annoying in his own right, but that's another story.

[Guest Guest]

Is there a way to alter our local copies to stop some of the interjections appearing? I'm thinking that if someone finds a particular interjection (or injections) annoying, they could then alter their copy so they don't appear in future games.

[cmorgan]

Sure thing, but

#1 finding the darned line is not so easy, with project files built for so many years and placed across so many phases,

 

#2 you will end up with a localized copy (and if you mess stuff up, c'est la vie, c'est le/la guerre, c'est nes pas un pomme d'terre, or whatever - )

 

Uninstall BG1NPC, and do a text search across all project files for %VICONIA_JOINED%.

 

Then look up the associated lines, and see which ones follow a format like this:

 

I_C_T ~%tutu_var%BELT~ 9 X#VicBelt
== ~%VICONIA_JOINED%~ IF ~InParty("viconia") InMyArea("viconia") !StateCheck("viconia",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)~ THEN @33 END

 

and put a /* in front and a */ of each you don't want (you will have to look up the .tra reference, of course) so it looks like this:

 

/*  I_C_T ~%tutu_var%BELT~ 9 X#VicBelt
== ~%VICONIA_JOINED%~ IF ~InParty("viconia") InMyArea("viconia") !StateCheck("viconia",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)~ THEN @33 END */

 

and you have taken it out. Don't use //, because some of the project uses single-line entry and some uses double or triple - you will get parse-error hell when yu try to install again. If you get a parse error when you reinstall, you were sloppy - you will need to go figure out which one you didn't comment correctly!

 

This will kill most f the interjections that are simple enough to do without knowing what you are doing.

 

By the way, I do not recommend doing this. I would put up with her, or not install BG1NPC when you want to play with her in a game, if you don't like her. Heck, if she won't shut up, take her aside, kick her out, and kill her, loot her gear,a and be done with it. After all, "The only Good Drow is a Dead Drow".

 

Currently there are no mods out there that toggle on and off specific lines of content at player whim - Aran is experimenting with that, but he is a special case - an NPC that is designed to work ok with all types of players. In general, NPCs only comment when their authors think it is important to do so, so wiping out author's words is kind of like saying

 

 

"Hey, I liked Tolkein's LOTR, but he got it all wrong with the Gollum character. I mean, he made him so unsympathetic! I think I will go through and wipe out all the scenes and interjections gollum makes."

 

You are better off creating your own version from scratch, with the vision you see in your head

[Guest Guest]

Thank you for the instructions. I understand and appreciate the point you're making, but I hardly think removing a handful of interjections will spoil the mod.

 

Another thing that's worth considering is that since some (all?) of the mod's authors are no longer around, the mod's content won't be improved. Were content allowed to be improved, who's to say that the number of interjections would remain as high as it is now? Mod authors improve their mods all the time, so let's not assume that this mod is perfect as it is.

[berelinde]

Nobody said it was perfect, however everybody on the project agrees that it's done.

 

You might want to try commenting out Viconia's interjections individually, but there's another way to do it that you might find easier.

 

Look for a file called bg1npc.tp2 and open it with a text editor. Notepad will work, if you have nothing better.

 

Find this block:

  /* Interjections */
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#BRINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#JAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#FAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SKINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#XZINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#MOINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ELINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#TIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#YEINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KHINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#AJINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#DYINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#XAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SHINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#MIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#EDINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#GAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ALINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#IMINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#COINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#VIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#QUINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ICT3.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/x#kiint_new.d~

 

Make it look like this:

  /* Interjections */
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#BRINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#JAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#FAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SKINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#XZINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#MOINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ELINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#TIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#YEINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#KHINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#AJINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#DYINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#XAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#SHINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#MIINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#EDINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#GAINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ALINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#IMINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#COINT.D~
 /* COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#VIINT.D~ */
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#QUINT.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/X#ICT3.D~
 COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~BG1NPC/Phase2/dlg/x#kiint_new.d~

 

Reinstall the mod.

[cmorgan]

yep - b's right - that should wipe out about 63 separate interjection points (some are brannches of the same dialog, but most are not, so close to 50 interjections would be dropped). And is easier to accomplish/undo.

[kthxbye]

Just one lil' consideration regarding the "improve the mod by cutting content": I've never used Viconia in my life until I used BG1NPC mod. Since then, I just love her. Apart from what she says, I think she's really well written and with dialogs she changes a bit, so it's not a flat character. I really enjoy her.

All of this just to say: ask 50 people how to improve Viconia's part of the mod, you will get at least 50 different answers. I myself would like to see even more Viccy's interjections.

 

I think you'll do well enough following Berelinde's tip anyway, it's simple and fast, and will cut out what you don't like.

 

Just my opinion.

[Guest monsterman]

Just one lil' consideration regarding the "improve the mod by cutting content": I've never used Viconia in my life until I used BG1NPC mod. Since then, I just love her. Apart from what she says, I think she's really well written and with dialogs she changes a bit, so it's not a flat character. I really enjoy her.

All of this just to say: ask 50 people how to improve Viconia's part of the mod, you will get at least 50 different answers. I myself would like to see even more Viccy's interjections.

 

I think you'll do well enough following Berelinde's tip anyway, it's simple and fast, and will cut out what you don't like.

 

Just my opinion.

 

i know exactly what u mean, but the thing that pisses me off the most is the amount of interjections other characters have. in fact, viconia is the only one who has this many interjections to the point where like the entire mod is for her. she has so many while basically others have NONE. by the time when i'm doing quests in baldur's gate, she has interjection(s) with almost ALL of the npcs. i'm not pissed because she has so many, i'm pissed because she is the only one who has so many which turns out really bad and really annoying. when i talk to people 95%+ of the time she is the ONLY one who has sumthin to say. and also during all of those interjections none of the other characters interact with her so she is like talking to herself, not to mention she talks shit all the time which just adds oil to fire.

[Guest Guest]

Are there any in particular you'd suggest commenting-out, monsterman?

[Guest Not Guest Guest]

Currently there are no mods out there that toggle on and off specific lines of content at player whim - Aran is experimenting with that, but he is a special case - an NPC that is designed to work ok with all types of players. In general, NPCs only comment when their authors think it is important to do so, so wiping out author's words is kind of like saying

 

"Hey, I liked Tolkein's LOTR, but he got it all wrong with the Gollum character. I mean, he made him so unsympathetic! I think I will go through and wipe out all the scenes and interjections gollum makes."

 

 

Really. Wow. I didn't realize that Viconia's original writer contributed to this mod. Or wait, do you mean it's like reading fanfictionand then complaining about characterization? Criticism of which is at least as valid as a freaking fanfic in the first place.

[cmorgan]

Fanfic, not the original writer, I am sure of that. Yep, like reading fanfic, and complaining about characterization is fine, as is complaining about characterization here, or any other fan-made (or pro-made) story, movie etc.

 

The difference is you can't go up to Jackson and say "Hey - you forgot all the cool parts, like Tom Bombadil, and saving the Shire, etc. - redo the movie!". And hopefully a fanfic author will take your criticism in friendly spirit, and perhaps even take your ideas into consideration, but when all is said and done the fanfic is the author's interpretation, not yours, and no one is forcing you to read it

 

In this case, messing about with an active author and having this discussion is useful, because the author may be able to incorporate the feedback and perhaps you will convince the author to change something. If the author has a solid story in thier mind, probably not to a great extent, but some. Mods can be somewhat flexible when there is an active author. With Viconia's author no longer in the community, not so much!

[Guest Not Guest Guest]

The difference is you can't go up to Jackson and say "Hey - you forgot all the cool parts, like Tom Bombadil, and saving the Shire, etc. - redo the movie!". And hopefully a fanfic author will take your criticism in friendly spirit, and perhaps even take your ideas into consideration, but when all is said and done the fanfic is the author's interpretation, not yours, and no one is forcing you to read it

 

Cute. Maybe next time you can just start with ye olde IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE MOD THEN DON'T DOWNLOAD IT !!!11@ twaddle it'll spare you the time and "effort."

[cmorgan]

Sure thing. I'll start with that. Or perhaps I will say what we said -

 

We can't fix what you don't like, so here is how you can edit you local copy, even though it is a relatively tricky thing to do fully if you are not into the whole coding thing. We will take the time to help you, because that seems like a good thing to do as fellow players.

 

Hope it helped - seems like this conversation is going off track, so if there is something technical you folks need, fire off the question; if there is something about changing content, we can't help you; if you are looking for an argument on the relative merits of fanfiction, modders (mis)interpretations of characterization, or feel a serious need to state your discontent with the way folks write their stuff, go grab a section of the General forum and have at it.