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Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility


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I like this component as it makes the magic fights more interesting but I would make one suggestion.

 

I would leave Khelben's Warding Whip unchanged as a direct target spell. Making it area of effect makes the spell inferior to the lower level Pierce Magic enemies are going to moves before the spell ever triggers again. Also leaving it direct target increases the variety of possible tactics and gives a mage a good reason to have both spells memorized.

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Provided the spell hits, the effects of Khelben's should stick to the creature. Moving doesn't/shouldn't protect you from the delayed effects of the spell.

 

Oh....

 

Well its less important then, but I would still vote for it to be direct target.

 

Then for invisible creatures you could use RRR, Spellstrike, Pierce Magic ect,

and for the annoying mage who was visible but running all over the place you could fall back on the direct targeting Khelben's.

 

As is with the component you constantly worry about enemy mages "dodging" your antimagic spells. Having at one spell that could not be dodged would be nice.

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Guest Guest

You shouldn't touch Khelben's Warding Whip, it's one of the most important dispelling spells at high level, preventing contingencies, spell triggers and the like.

 

Aiming a spell is not that much of a problem, all you've got to do is wait for your ennemy to cast something so you can nail him with it.

 

Well, i didn't have much trouble dispelling my ennemies with these "small AoE" spells... and i'll soon have access to the ultimate spell percing spell... damn i long for it.

If you really want, you can also not install the AoE dispelling spells component, and use a Thief with detect illusions to counter your ennemies Spell Immunity : Divination + Improved Invisibility.

That means that if your thief ever dies, you're screwed :rolleyes:

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Guest Guest

They don't serve the same purpose.

Breach dispells magic protections like stoneskin, protection from fire, protection from death, protection from magic weapons and the like.

 

All the other (AoE) spells dispell magic protections such as Globe Of Invulnerability, Spell Immunity, Spell deflection, Spell turning.

 

Once you can breach a wizard, he's dead. To prevent beeing breached, he can use :

Improved invisibility spells

Spell Immunity : Abjuration

 

When you're fighting a wizard, you must first dispell his magical protections, in order to breach him and dispell his physical protections.

Those spells are AoE spell mostly due to the fact that every mage you'll be facing will use Spell Imunity : Divination + Improved Invisibility or Improved invisibilty + Spell Imunity : Abjuration (to prevent breach & remove magic)

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I agree, making breach go through improved invisibility would make the spell much more powerful.

 

Baseline game made the improved invisibility, spell immunity combo overpowered.

 

I would argue that this component goes to far in the other direction and that this component nerfs improved invisibility too much.

 

It should be harder but not impossible to take down the protections of an invisible creature.

 

Spells that take down a single protection like secret word, pierce magic, RRR I agree should penetrate invisibility.

 

Spells that smash multiple spell protections, spell thrust, warding whip, breach are more powerful and should therefore be harder to pull off and I would prefer the option of having these spells not penetrate improved invisibility.

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Guest Guest_Loz_*
I agree, making breach go through improved invisibility would make the spell much more powerful.

 

Baseline game made the improved invisibility, spell immunity combo overpowered.

 

I would argue that this component goes to far in the other direction and that this component nerfs improved invisibility too much.

 

It should be harder but not impossible to take down the protections of an invisible creature.

 

Spells that take down a single protection like secret word, pierce magic, RRR I agree should penetrate invisibility.

 

Spells that smash multiple spell protections, spell thrust, warding whip, breach are more powerful and should therefore be harder to pull off and I would prefer the option of having these spells not penetrate improved invisibility.

 

I think thats a really great idea, and it would solve the problem of mages being very tough opponents till you get spelltrike - and a joke afterwards. This would make a really nice optional component to allow a little more flexibility. Also it would remain somewhat truer to the original game while still solvingthe problem of II+SI:D is immune to everything but scrolls and things can see thru invis(liches). I guess the main problem is going to be that the ai is running off aoe spelltrikes right now, but i have no problem with that, i just wish my own were not.

 

Also - and this will probably be annoying :rolleyes:, but any further update on wether something will be done on insect plague, i still find this level 5 mage spell trivializes most mage fights in the game.

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I agree, making breach go through improved invisibility would make the spell much more powerful.

 

Baseline game made the improved invisibility, spell immunity combo overpowered.

 

I would argue that this component goes to far in the other direction and that this component nerfs improved invisibility too much.

 

It should be harder but not impossible to take down the protections of an invisible creature.

 

Spells that take down a single protection like secret word, pierce magic, RRR I agree should penetrate invisibility.

 

Spells that smash multiple spell protections, spell thrust, warding whip, breach are more powerful and should therefore be harder to pull off and I would prefer the option of having these spells not penetrate improved invisibility.

 

I think thats a really great idea, and it would solve the problem of mages being very tough opponents till you get spelltrike - and a joke afterwards. This would make a really nice optional component to allow a little more flexibility. Also it would remain somewhat truer to the original game while still solvingthe problem of II+SI:D is immune to everything but scrolls and things can see thru invis(liches). I guess the main problem is going to be that the ai is running off aoe spelltrikes right now, but i have no problem with that, i just wish my own were not.

 

Also - and this will probably be annoying :(, but any further update on wether something will be done on insect plague, i still find this level 5 mage spell trivializes most mage fights in the game.

 

Insect plague is dealt with easily enough. Just have enemy mages cast Spell Immunity: Conjuration when enemy druids are present. That is how I deal with Vampires who send bats and druids who attack me with insect plague.

 

One thing that bothers me is why secret word is target specific and spell thrust is AoE when spell thrust is a superior spell that destroys all protections of level 5 or lower while secret word the higher level spell must be targeted and removes only 1 defensive spell.

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Guest Guest
Insect plague is dealt with easily enough. Just have enemy mages cast Spell Immunity: Conjuration when enemy druids are present. That is how I deal with Vampires who send bats and druids who attack me with insect plague.

 

One thing that bothers me is why secret word is target specific and spell thrust is AoE when spell thrust is a superior spell that destroys all protections of level 5 or lower while secret word the higher level spell must be targeted and removes only 1 defensive spell.

 

I agree on Insect Plague: perhaps mages can check to see if you have Druids in your group? In any event you can still use Chaos and Greater Command unless they also run SI: Enchantment. Ultimately you have to ask where does it end here. In particular it feels like some enemy mages have access to more sequencers than their level would normally allow. Complete protection from most level 5 work arounds would require SI:D, SI:Abj, SI: Con, SI: Ench, GoI, II. This requires believing that they used a Spell Trigger and a Chain Contingency just for this protection.

 

Secret Word gets rid of Level 6-8 Spells, which makes it the better choice if you need to get rid of Spell Turning, etc. It would be pretty overpowered if it got rid of all spell protections of 8th Level or less.

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I agree on Insect Plague: perhaps mages can check to see if you have Druids in your group? In any event you can still use Chaos and Greater Command unless they also run SI: Enchantment. Ultimately you have to ask where does it end here. In particular it feels like some enemy mages have access to more sequencers than their level would normally allow. Complete protection from most level 5 work arounds would require SI:D, SI:Abj, SI: Con, SI: Ench, GoI, II. This requires believing that they used a Spell Trigger and a Chain Contingency just for this protection.

 

This misunderstands the logic behind prebuffing. It's not supposed to be done by triggers and contingencies (those are handled separately): it's supposed to simulate the casting of defensive spells immediately before the battle starts. (And it's optional, of course.)

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