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Kit Revisions (Fighters)


Demivrgvs

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It's just that Kensai NEED some good protection at low levels. -2 AC is not enough. Bracers are not enough. Kensai at low levels are extremely weak, IMO.
Well, -2 AC is like wearing light armor, and with the worst bracers available you already have an AC similar to medium armors.

 

I must admit though that I have IR's revised armors in mind, where heavy armor and sky high DEX don't stack so well, and medium/heavy armors slow you down. In that context kensais are simply a different type of fighter who needs to rely on high DEX, and at low levels his/her AC isn't terribly worst than that of a true fighter in medium armor (I don't think you can get a full plate so easily in BG1).

 

At the same time kensais must have some disadvantage over true fighters, because +1 to hit/dmg at 1st level is an outstanding advantage, and the ability to deal maximum damage in the early stages of BG1 is terrific imo.

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The thing about the Kensai is that he kills stuff faster than they can kill him. If you build and play him right (and give him a little babying at the start), then the Kensai himself can be powerful, and not have to worry as much about armor.

 

Then bring on the Kensage and the world trembles :D:):) !

 

Point of fact, it almost seems like the Kensai was built for dual-classing. On its own at lower levels, it's pretty vulnerable. But it makes a perfect supplement to another kit like mage or thief all through the game.

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Point of fact, it almost seems like the Kensai was built for dual-classing. On its own at lower levels, it's pretty vulnerable. But it makes a perfect supplement to another kit like mage or thief all through the game.
Thief and mage is a class, not a Kit. :)

 

PS: Kensai/Thief for the win.

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Kensai is great in 1on1 fight, but if there are more enemies - he should be weak.
Exactly.

 

 

Then bring on the Kensage and the world trembles :D:):) !

 

Point of fact, it almost seems like the Kensai was built for dual-classing. On its own at lower levels, it's pretty vulnerable. But it makes a perfect supplement to another kit like mage or thief all through the game.

PS: Kensai/Thief for the win.
Yeah, no DM would ever allow such as silly thing in PnP but I have to live with it because it seems so many players are against making them unable to dual.

 

Anyway, the Use Any Item cheat (because it's a plain cheat) won't work anymore within KR, and kensai/thief will not be able to wear armors, helmets, and shields.

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Wizard Slayer

Demi, I've noticed slightly updated description of WS which states that standard WS's ability is Dispelling Illusions. Is there any way to implement it usable similiar to thieve's ability of Detect Illusion? I've never used it, and is this totally pasive ability or you have to use Find Traps button?

 

I'm thinking about alternative way of implementing this ability because I do love Spell Turning ability so much and noone wants to have Wizard Slayer with more innate abilities that wizard's repertoire of spells, right?

 

Removing shield usability - that's nice touch. I was also thinking about restricting heavy armours - these aren't very usefull when slaying wizzies. I'd rather see my Wizard Slayer in leather armor, with short sword and crossbow who's specialised in disrupting spells. (Random note: what about -1/-2 penalty to attack speed factor when in plate/full plate mail?)

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Wizard Slayer

Demi, I've noticed slightly updated description of WS which states that standard WS's ability is Dispelling Illusions. Is there any way to implement it usable similiar to thieve's ability of Detect Illusion?
That would require the kit to use thief's "template" with the relative buttons (hide and pick locket too) and less weapon slots...personally I don't like it too much. It also has a slight balance impact, because an "at will" detect invisibility is quite more powerful than a x/day one.

 

I've never used it, and is this totally pasive ability or you have to use Find Traps button?
It's not passive, while detecting the character cannot do anything else (except walking around).

 

I'm thinking about alternative way of implementing this ability because I do love Spell Turning ability so much and noone wants to have Wizard Slayer with more innate abilities that wizard's repertoire of spells, right?
Right, but Spell Turning was supposed to be a HLA last time we discussed it.

 

Removing shield usability - that's nice touch. I was also thinking about restricting heavy armours - these aren't very usefull when slaying wizzies. I'd rather see my Wizard Slayer in leather armor, with short sword and crossbow who's specialised in disrupting spells.
I'm not sure how many players would like WS to lose so much "tank-potential", and probably not even me. Not to mention that such kit would start to look like more a ranger kit, rather than a fighter one.

 

Random note: what about -1/-2 penalty to attack speed factor when in plate/full plate mail?
I suggested it for IR's armor encumberance long time ago...but I think I got various "no way" as reply. :thumbsup:
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Right, but Spell Turning was supposed to be a HLA last time we discussed it.

Hmpf. I've thought that you will introduce solution similiar to Occult Hunter's ability. Spell turning which lasts for 10 seconds and turns 1-5 level spells only, but unlimited amount of them. This ability is pretty cool. I'm not sure about making Spell Turning a HLA, because in this game's stage you already posses Cloak of Mirroring.

 

I suggested it for IR's armor encumberance long time ago...but I think I got various "no way" as reply.

No way. I've always though that it's perfect solution for making light-fighter not an "role-playing only" character anymore. Dividing heavy-defender fighter with plate-mail and tower shield, and nimble high-DEX guy in chainmail with short sword. Sorry for offtopic.

 

Berserker

What do you think about adding very low regeneration rate as passive ability for him? Without powerfull and cool ability of Enrage, he has nothing. :thumbsup:

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Anyway, the Use Any Item cheat (because it's a plain cheat) won't work anymore within KR, and kensai/thief will not be able to wear armors, helmets, and shields.
You should realize you just failed a customer... ghrm police/Sikret. :thumbsup:

 

What you should understand is that you should make the Kits have more high level bonuses, not cut them down at level- 19, so a high leveled character has something too look out for even at level 50(even though he should never be able to get there), so they are not tempted to dual just to make more powerful characters in the end.

(this comes from the thinking that when a Kensai maxes out at level 19, we can as well make a Kensai-> mage at fighter level ~13-15 as we already have almost everything the maxed Kensai would have, and a lot less xp used than a level 19 one)

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Wizard Slayer

Right, but Spell Turning was supposed to be a HLA last time we discussed it.
Hmpf. I've thought that you will introduce solution similiar to Occult Hunter's ability. Spell turning which lasts for 10 seconds and turns 1-5 level spells only, but unlimited amount of them. This ability is pretty cool. I'm not sure about making Spell Turning a HLA, because in this game's stage you already posses Cloak of Mirroring.
Yeah, that's more or less how it would work, similarly to PnP (though there you cannot turn more than one spell) and the instant casting with short duration is the only way to make a Spell Turning ability useful.

 

The Cloak of Cheese don't reflect spells if ToB is installed, and works "only" 50% of times with IR installed.

 

The ability could have been a once/day at 10th lvl or something like that, but as you say I thought that 2 innate ablities (Disrupting Strike and Detect Illusion) were already enough.

 

 

Armor Encumberance

I suggested it for IR's armor encumberance long time ago...but I think I got various "no way" as reply.
No way. I've always though that it's perfect solution for making light-fighter not an "role-playing only" character anymore. Dividing heavy-defender fighter with plate-mail and tower shield, and nimble high-DEX guy in chainmail with short sword. Sorry for offtopic.
Yep, I agree it would be cool. I'll discuss this with Mike.

 

 

Berserker

What do you think about adding very low regeneration rate as passive ability for him? Without powerfull and cool ability of Enrage, he has nothing. ;)
Mmm...I don't know how much it would be appropriate, but I do agree Berserkers should have at least a small feature while not enraged. :)

 

 

Kensai

Anyway, the Use Any Item cheat (because it's a plain cheat) won't work anymore within KR, and kensai/thief will not be able to wear armors, helmets, and shields.
You should realize you just failed a customer... ghrm police/Sikret. :hm:
:thumbsup: Sorry, but a Kensai in full plate, with Vhailor's Helm and Carsomyr, able to read Time Stop scroll is really too much for me to bear.

 

What you should understand is that you should make the Kits have more high level bonuses, not cut them down at level- 19, so a high leveled character has something too look out for even at level 50(even though he should never be able to get there), so they are not tempted to dual just to make more powerful characters in the end.
I know, that's why I've added to kits bonuses which are granted only at mid-high evels (e.g. Kensai get +5% chance to score criticals at 15th and +1 AC at 19th lvl), and custom HLAs will do for levels above the 20th (e.g. Kensage won't get "Improved Kai").

 

P.S I know you asked the same to yarpen for his kits, but I don't care about levels 40-50. If you want to reach those silly levels you may still get something (e.g. additional uses of some HLA such as Whirlwind Attack), but I'll surely not provide something "unique" for those levels.

 

(this comes from the thinking that when a Kensai maxes out at level 19, we can as well make a Kensai-> mage at fighter level ~13-15 as we already have almost everything the maxed Kensai would have, and a lot less xp used than a level 19 one)
Well, as I said above I'm working against it, but if you want to dual at 15th lvl and annoy yourself to death with a useless character for 3/4th of the game only because in the last few hours of it you'll get a killing machine you're not my target player.
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... but if you want to dual at 15th lvl and annoy yourself to death with a useless character for 3/4th of the game only because in the last few hours of it you'll get a killing machine you're not my target player.
No body said you had to be 'honest' on how you do the dual, say you take the party of 6(with Yoshimo->Imoen) chars up until you have got 1 250 000xp(13th level Kensai) without buying much stuff at the stores, ut selling everything you won't be using, you then drop all your party members, go to a mage shop, buy a lot of scrolls and vola, you have a lot of XP stored to be learned. The 1 500 000 is just 1500 spell levels away(->five hundred spells), that with a few quests you have already solved but not reserved the reward, and you are golden, easy... before the Spellhold. Yeah, its deplorable, and I haven't done that, but I do see the potential.

Why I am not... is because I prefer to play the BGT, and Classic Adventure mods(Level 1-> chars).

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The ability could have been a once/day at 10th lvl or something like that, but as you say I thought that 2 innate ablities (Disrupting Strike and Detect Illusion) were already enough.

And you're really going to make Disrupting Strike at-use ability instead of passive one? Damn. In vanilla BG this ability was the only one significant advantage of WS, here he will have some flashy but not especially powerfull (c'mon - dispeling illusions?) abilities. If you want to make at-use ability, try with dispeling attack. :thumbsup:

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And you're really going to make Disrupting Strike at-use ability instead of passive one? Damn. In vanilla BG this ability was the only one significant advantage of WS, here he will have some flashy but not especially powerfull (c'mon - dispeling illusions?) abilities. If you want to make at-use ability, try with dispeling attack. :suspect:

Just in case anyone cares, it so happens that my remake of the Wizard Slayer also turns his "Spell Failure on hit" property into a X-per-day ability, rather than something that's active 24/7.

And you're wrong, yarpen, his chance of inflicting Spell Failure was next to useless in vanilla: First off, any Mage who can be hit with a physical weapon is going to be dead in a matter of seconds, whether his attacker is a Wizard Slayer or not, and a Mage who's taking damage is a Mage who can't cast spells anyway, Spell Failure or no Spell Failure. Therefore, the Spell Failure on hit would only be a factor when one is fighting Clerics or Druids . . . and the vanilla Wizard Slayer's hits only hamper the casting of Wizard spells, it has no effect at all on the casting of Priest spells.

Detect Illusions is also a quite handy ability at times--I find it to be useful even when enemy Mages don't use tons of Imp.Invis + SI:Divination.

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Spell Failure was going trough Stoneskin. And one successful hit before his tons of protections and he's screwed. :3 Well, but I also think that burning trough wizard's defences should be most important advantage. Currently wizard with PfMW + Stoneskin + Imp. Invisibility + SI is just immune to everything. Everything would be cool without Contingencies and Sequencers. Now I think that BG2's screwed in those terms.

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And one successful hit before his tons of protections and he's screwed
There's a word for taking an advantage of engine's quirks :suspect:

This one is what I particularily hate a lot, as it forces to hold chars with fast attack (like archers) until triggers and conts activate

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