Jump to content

Kit Revisions (Rangers)


Recommended Posts

True Ranger feels like a striker-ish class with default 2 pips in dual welding (in my case Kivan is always using range and range is high hit rate and damage in bgee 1), I like the idea with rangers restricted to armours up to chain mails only (no splint mail or plate mail), hence high offense, medium defense (high dpr, medium AC/hit points).

...

Mods installed: Kit revision, item revision, SCS, BG2 tweak pack

There's a mod that makes the dexterity score give the bonuses on the 3ed base, and using that with the item revisions heavy armor dexterity penalty will make you play with lighter armor, as both your thac0 and AC suffer at really heavy armors. If you fail to find the mod, you can use the following table, and make new text file, rename it as "dexmod.2da" and put it to the game folders override -folder:
2DA V1.0
0
  REACTION  MISSILE  AC
0    -20      -20      5
1    -6       -6       4
2    -4       -4       4
3    -3       -3       3
4    -2       -2       3
5    -1       -1       2
6    0        0        2
7    0        0        1
8    0        0        1
9    0        0        0
10   0        0        0
11   0        0        0
12   1        1        -1
13   1        1        -1
14   2        2        -2
15   2        2        -2
16   3        3        -3
17   3        3        -3
18   4        4        -4
19   4        4        -4
20   5        5        -5
21   5        5        -5
22   6        6        -6
23   6        6        -6
24   7        7        -7
25   7        7        -7

The advantage is that you can also edit the content and make it as you like.

Link to comment

True Ranger

Just completed a run of BG1 enhanced edition using Kivan as an NPC True Ranger
It's great to see more players trying KR out despite its beta stage. :)

 

True Ranger should be able to wear plate mail? In my game he can’t, I’m not too sure why.
Since Beta19 rangers are limited to medium armors, but I forgot to update the class description. Fixed.

 

I didn’t use tracking once. The idea is cool but 30% chance to detect is a bit low and I usually just cast detect magic when the enemy is invisible or stealth. Its a bit redundant for my game.
By Detect Magic you mean Detect Invisibility? Anyway, the 30% chance was a first draft and can be edited indeed and I feared to suggest it, but ideally it should probably have higher or lower % chance depending on target's level. As of Beta20 it will also have doubled % chance against your Quarry. As a small note, Tracking still works against creatures under Non-detection, while divination spells become ineffective.

 

Wild Empathy: Early game, this spell gives me some free meat shields (Bears). This is good but many times, while casting this spell at close range, Kivan is hit and interrupted. Once I have meat shields from monsters summoning and undead summoning, I stopped using this spell altogether.
Well, I think we can easily grant this ability a bit of range, 10 feet?

Regarding the charm effect becoming obsolete, I'm working to expand Wild Empathy by granting it an additional function at a slightly higher level (probably level 4). The plan is to make it a multi-option spell, and have it either charm a nearby animal, or summon one (a wolf).

 

I love ‘Quarry’ and the idea behind it. In my game its working fine, some extra bonuses against one target. Removing invisibilty isnt a big issue for me. I dun see why marking in the first place will prevent a target from turning invisible. I also think that -10% physical resistance is too powerful, is it possible to have the Ranger deal 1d6 additional damage per hit on him? =)
As mentioned, the next update will remove the "immunity to invisibility" feature.

 

I'm indeed trying to figure out a way to make Quarry grant additional damage only to the ranger on not the entire party. For those who care, it's once again the shell system mechanic:

- Quarry casts three different spells, let's call them A, B and C

- A is cast on self, adds an on hit effect which casts on target an A2 spell (e.g. 1d6 additional damage)

- B is cast on the selected target (aka the quarry), and grants immunty to C

- C is cast on all enemies and make them immune to the on hit effects of A2

Afaik, it should work fine, but there's a couple of flaws:

- a party with multiple rangers could select multiple quarries, creating a situation where one ranger can deal additional damage against the Quarry of another ranger.

- the on hit effect via A2.spl would have a fixed damage type (e.g. piercing?) regardless of the weapon used

 

True Ranger feels like a striker-ish class with default 2 pips in dual welding (in my case Kivan is always using range and range is high hit rate and damage in bgee 1), I like the idea with rangers restricted to armours up to chain mails only (no splint mail or plate mail), hence high offense, medium defense (high dpr, medium AC/hit points).
That's pretty much how I imagined it. Rangers should be "skirmishers", with high offensive potential but "only" medium defense (still much better than rogues, but not on par with Fighters and Paladins). They should rely on stealth, range and mobility to gain the advantage. Not to mention they now have an appropriate spellbook which should be tailor made to play upon their supposed strong points (e.g. Entangle + Woodland Strider to move around the battlefield with superior mobility, Swift Haste to give a short lasting boost to both offensive potential and mobility, etc.).

 

Symmetrically, I actually wanted Paladins to lose a bit of offensive potential (they lost half an attack per round compared to vanilla, which is a big deal imo, especially within BG1) while keeping the best defensive potential. Ideally, I think Paladins should be even more "tankish" than fighters.

 

There's a mod that makes the dexterity score give the bonuses on the 3ed base, and using that with the item revisions heavy armor dexterity penalty will make you play with lighter armor, as both your thac0 and AC suffer at really heavy armors.
Actually, 3E-like stats would make IR's heavy armors not perform as intended. Right now full plate causes a relatively small % penalty to DEX (I cannot impose a DEx 12 cap a la 3E) to make sure a 18 DEX fighter would suffer enough penalty to not grant more than +1 AC from DEX. If you make DEX 14 grant +2 AC a la 3E, then you effectively make heavy armors more appealing for high DEX warriors.
Link to comment

@Jarno Mikkola, great tips and I tried the code you wrote. Works just fine and helps to give some advantages to my AC =), I suppose this cant work for strength due to the 18/xx percentage code?

 

 

@demivrgvs,

 

Tracking - Yes. sorry I actually meant detect invisibility. I would like to add that Tracking may be less useful in my case as I used Ranger as a ranged striker. If I was in melee I might be tempted to use it a bit more. However, if I wanted to detect an invisible enemy, its usually a desperate situation where I really want to use a 'detect invisibility' for a hard counter. As of now, tracking acts as a last resort and a soft counter. Thats nothing wrong with that though?

 

Wild Empathy - I thought the whole idea of the 'touch' range spell is because the ranger have to really go up close to charm the animal. However, 10 feet would be great, but since this spell has virtually unlimited uses, this spell may be a bit too powerful as BG1 likes to spawn a pack of 5 black bears at one location. Since you could do wild empathy at range, you could virtually charm the whole pack and have an army of bears at your disposal. Thats a bit broken for a low level party even if its situational. If we could do it at 10 feet, to prevent abuse, may I suggest a higher cooldown timing of 1 turn to prevent abuse? Another option could be another 1 use/4 level ability. I kind of think that summon wolf is a bit mystical given you could do it in a dungeon and I'm not sure if that makes sense for a ranger.

 

Quarry - I kind of love the current Quarry now, even if it remains unchanged, I'm happy. =) I'm cool with the removal of invisibility as well.

 

True ranger - Couldnt say it better than what you did. I think KR achieved this one. But I have totally not tested the melee two weapon ranger version =p

 

About the dex mod - Well, I actually roll characters and give them 14 dex, 16 strength and 17 con instead of 18/18/18 for fighters and a small boost here and there doesnt hurt =)

 

A minor suggestion - Rename 'Quarry' to 'Hunter's Quarry'. I think it sounds even more like a 'mark'. lol

Link to comment
@Jarno Mikkola, great tips and I tried the code you wrote. Works just fine and helps to give some advantages to my AC =), I suppose this cant work for strength due to the 18/xx percentage code?
Works just fine, you just need to edit the "strmod.2da" file and the "strmodex.2da" file, the first's content, yes, I modified these:
2DA V1.0
0
  TO_HIT   DAMAGE   BEND_BARS_LIFT_GATES      WEIGHT_ALLOWANCE
0    -20      -20             0                       0
1    -5       -4              1                       1
2    -3       -2              2                       3
3    -3       -1              3                       5
4    -2       -1              4                       15
5    -2       -1              5                       25
6    -1       0               6                       40
7    -1       0               7                       60
8    0        0               8                       80
9    0        0               9                       100
10   0        0               10                      120
11   0        0               11                      140
12   0        0               12                      160
13   0        0               13                      180
14   0        0               14                      200
15   0        0               15                      220
16   0        1               16                      240
17   1        1               18                      260
18   1        2               20                      300
19   3        7               50                      500
20   3        8               55                      600
21   4        9               60                      700
22   4        10              65                      800
23   5        11              70                      1000
24   6        12              75                      1200
25   7        14              80                      1600

 

And the second:

DA V1.0
0
   TO_HIT   DAMAGE    BEND_BARS_LIFT_GATES      WEIGHT_ALLOWANCE
0    0         0                0                      0
1    0         1                5                      2
2    0         1                5                      4
3    0         1                5                      6
4    0         1                5                      8
5    0         1                5                      10
6    0         1                5                      12
7    0         1                5                      14
8    0         1                5                      16
9    0         1                5                      18
10   0         1                5                      20
11   0         1                5                      22
12   0         1                5                      24
13   0         1                5                      26
14   0         1                5                      28
15   0         1                5                      30
16   0         1                5                      32
17   0         1                5                      34
18   0         1                5                      36
19   0         1                5                      38
20   0         1                5                      40
21   0         1                5                      42
22   0         1                5                      44
23   0         1                5                      46
24   0         1                5                      48
25   0         1                5                      50
26   0         1                5                      52
27   0         1                5                      54
28   0         1                5                      56
29   0         1                5                      58
30   0         1                5                      60
31   0         1                5                      62
32   0         1                5                      64
33   0         1                5                      66
34   0         1                5                      68
35   0         1                5                      70
36   0         1                5                      72
37   0         1                5                      74
38   0         1                5                      76
39   0         1                5                      78
40   0         1                5                      80
41   0         1                5                      82
42   0         1                5                      84
43   0         1                5                      86
44   0         1                5                      88
45   0         1                5                      90
46   0         1                5                      92
47   0         1                5                      94
48   0         1                5                      96
49   0         1                5                      98
50   0         1                5                      100
51   1         1                10                     102
52   1         1                10                     104
53   1         1                10                     106
54   1         1                10                     108
55   1         1                10                     110
56   1         1                10                     112
57   1         1                10                     114
58   1         1                10                     116
59   1         1                10                     118
60   1         1                10                     120
61   1         1                10                     122
62   1         1                10                     124
63   1         1                10                     126
64   1         1                10                     128
65   1         1                10                     130
66   1         1                10                     132
67   1         1                10                     134
68   1         1                10                     136
69   1         1                10                     138
70   1         1                10                     140
71   1         1                10                     142
72   1         1                10                     144
73   1         1                10                     146
74   1         1                10                     148
75   1         1                10                     150
76   1         2                15                     152
77   1         2                15                     154
78   1         2                15                     156
79   1         2                15                     158
80   1         2                15                     160
81   1         2                15                     162
82   1         2                15                     164
83   1         2                15                     166
84   1         2                15                     168
85   1         2                15                     170
86   1         2                15                     172
87   1         2                15                     174
88   1         2                15                     176
89   1         2                15                     178
90   1         2                15                     180
91   1         3                20                     182
92   1         3                20                     184
93   1         3                20                     186
94   1         3                20                     188
95   1         3                20                     190
96   1         3                20                     192
97   1         3                20                     194
98   1         3                20                     196
99   1         3                20                     198
100  2         4                25                     200

To get the originals, go here.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola
Link to comment
Quick question: do these tables affect monsters and do they get bonuses based on my tables?
They should, but I can't say for sure. Know that most of the creatures have most of their stats set to 9 if it doesn't matter for them... there's monsters that have their stats taken from a monster manual like table.

The SCS has also a component that checks the monsters at install time and sets their HP, AC, Thac0 etc stats if the .2da table has been radically changed ... but only in the case they get better stats.

Link to comment

Okay, so when sitting bored at work, I've done some minor pondering.

 

- Tracking: both it's stance-ish and combat capability actually bother me. I'd rather make it less powerfull version of HLA that:

Is useable once per Turn.

Has %-chance based on Ranger's level (up to 95% at level 17?)

Gives you some text-based advices on terrain and shows the general direction of where the enemies can be.

Gives you text-based information on where the traps can be.

Is usable only in wilderness (Stalkers can use it everywhere).

 

So yeah, dumping it's gameplay-potential for actual roleplay potential.

 

- I'd love to see expanded Racial Enemy as one of the defining points. Waiting for ToBEx/BGEE possibilities I guess.

At level 1, +4 bonus to Damage Rolls vs chosen enemy.

At level 9, +2 bonus to Armor Class/Saves vs chosen enemy.

At level 18, protection against specific attack from the chosen type (psi-attacks against aberrations, backstabs against humanoids, poison against insects etc.)

 

- Removing the 2-weapons absurd. For fuck's sake, not everyone is Drizzit.

 

- Animal Companion as another defining point of this class. Hard to implement due to NPCs I guess. Hey, at least Minsc has Boo, right?

 

- Quarry could be just -2 penalty to Attack Rolls, Armor Class, making opponent unable to Stealth for 4 rounds. Broken against single target? It needs to be visible from the beginning.

Link to comment

Okay, I do have some kind of crazy idea for Rangers. Single animal companion dependant on his kit.

 

Ranger gets Wolf capable of detecting invisible units at small range (Scent) or at least detecting their presence.

Stalker gets Ferret capable of stealing stuff and scouting.

Archer gets... Hawk. Represented in weird way of having once per turn Farsight and Hawk randomly marking his targets (granting -2 penalty to AC).

Link to comment

@yarpen, if ToBEx/BGEE will ever allow me to expand Racial Enemy I'll obviously try to do something about it, but both that and Rangers getting Two-weapon Fighting by default is hardcoded stuff. Regarding each kit getting a unique animal I'm sorta doing that because I'm building a wolf for the True Ranger and a panther for the Beastmaster, but both the Stalker and the Archer are already too good (nice idea the hawk though).

 

Speaking of which, if I don't drink too much tonight I should be able to release a consistent update tomorrow, which will include quite a few refinements for the True Ranger and hopefully the first draft of the Beastmaster too! :)

Link to comment

Well, let's try to sum up what we do have in store for Rangers in the final draft.

 

Class Features:

- Warrior's ThaC0

- Specialization

- Additional attack per round

- 2-weapons Fighting Style

- Hide in Shadows and Move Silently

- Druidic Spellcasting

- Racial Enemy

- Quarry

- Tracking

- Animal Companion

- Charm Animal

 

RANGER is master of nothing in particular. He can wear chainmails! And has Doge!

STALKER is master of hiding in shadows and Quarry.

ARCHER is master of ranged combat.

BEASTMASTER is master of Animal Companions and Animal Empathy (maybe Druidic Spellcasting?).

 

So, few ideas to make things look a bit better.

 

Moving Tracking into Animal Companion (Wolf)

I've mentioned it before. I just don't think that Ranger can afford getting so many combat penalties to detect invisible creatures - and in terms of roleplaying it just fits an animal in much better way, also granting it some kind of combat utility.

 

Upgrading Stalker's Quarry

Don't be afraid, I mean minor nerfs to Quarry instead of buffs for already too-good Stalker. Well, to turn his gameplay into something different than Fighter-Thief with cool spells, I'd propose shifting his Backstab capability to Quarry. So, only succesfull Quarry gives you capability of backstabing opponent.

 

Quarry for Beastmaster's Companion

While Beastmaster is not the kind of guy who'd be Quarrying the hell out of his opponents - that kind of feature on his Panther would be a nice touch (unless you plan to restrict Beastmaster from that).

 

Beastmaster's Spellcasting

Beastmaster could be THE spellcasting Ranger - keeping his Animal Summoning spells would be fine, especially if you'll fill his spellbook with enhanced Magical Fang spells for his sexy Panther.

 

Falcon Companion for Archer

Already mentioned that somewhere else. Instead of just copying Called Shot ability from Fighter, Archer could get some kind of modifier Quarry and Farsight to simulate having a Falcon companion (hey, it fits Ranger a lot!).

Edited by yarpen
Link to comment
Falcon Companion for Archer

Already mentioned that somewhere else. Instead of just copying Called Shot ability from Fighter, Archer could get some kind of modifier Quarry and Farsight to simulate having a Falcon companion (hey, it fits Ranger a lot!).

Wouldn't the falcon as a creature be more like the Wizard Eye spell than the Farsight one, after all it's an independent creature, not a hover scout craft/kite. And yes, we can actually script the falcon to fly so it's almost natural looking, and as it has no attack, it won't need to stay there to attack.
Link to comment

But then it has weird pathing. I'd rather turn it into a serie of Farsights sent into chosen by player direction. :D

 

Also, to explain better what I mean in terms of Quarry for Ranger/Stalker/Beastmaster's Companion.

 

Ranger's Quarry

When using this ability, Ranger has to designate a visible target. After a full round of observation of his victim, Ranger imposes a -2 penalty to Armor Class and Saving Throws to target creature and makes it unable to become invisible for 4 rounds.

 

Stalker's Quarry

When using this ability, Stalker has to designate a visible target. After a full round of observation of his victim, Stalker imposes a -2 penalty to Armor Class and Saving Throws to target creature and makes it unable to become invisible for 4 rounds. In addition, during the first round after succesfull Quarry, Stalker can backstab his opponents with damage multiplier being reliant on his level:

1-7: 2x

8-13: 3x

13+: 4x

 

Panther's Quarry

When using this ability, Panther has to designate a visible target. After a full round of observation of it's victim, Panther imposes a -2 penalty to Armor Class to target creature and makes it unable to become invisible for 2 rounds. In addition, during the first round after succesfull Quarry, Panther gains +2 bonus to Movement Speed and can backstab her opponents with damage multiplier being reliant on it's caster's level:

1-7: 1x

8-13: 2x

14+: 3x

Edited by yarpen
Link to comment
Afaik, it ain't possible to make Stalker backstab only his Quarry.
Well, that's because the quarry is not a spell set to the caster, but the enemy. Would you make it like the detect evil spell, it can be that.

And no, we can't actually have the "After a full round of observation of his victim, x imposes" fact as we can't actually rule out the target being invisible between the start and end of the spell, cause you can use normal True Sight spell on the target to re-visualize it, and the spell is casted as if the target was always visible.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola
Link to comment
Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...