Curious...

[Kai of Candlekeep]

I don't think SoA says that Irenicus killed Dynaheir; what I got from Minsc's words were that as they were kidnapped, Dynaheir was killed while Minsc saw but could not help. It could've been a stray arrow or something as opposed to Irenicus torturing/murdering her.

Actually, the fact that Jon Irenicus killed Dynaheir was mentioned twice in SoA (or at least, strongly implied). Two instances that I could find were:

 

1 ) After the cutscene where Cowled Wizards take Irenicus and Imoen:

Text (index 61013): MINSCJ phrase 238, weight 10

No, this cannot be! The murderer of Dynaheir flees from righteous butt-kicking vengeance!  And he takes Imoen with him, too!

 

Condition

Global("PostCutSpeak","AR0700",1)

 

 

2 ) Tree of Life:

Text (index 58023): PLAYER1 phrase 30, weight 10

You feel a tingling as you approach the stairs; a familiar touch which you instinctively recognize as your own soul.  Irenicus is near, in the next room.

 

Condition

Global("TreeLifeTalk","AR2805",1)

~Skip a few lines here, cutting to the chase~

Text (index 58032): PLAYER1 phrase 35

Minsc, the scarred and loyal ranger, always ready to leap into battle with Boo ever at his side.  You wonder if he truly understands the struggle to come.

 

Text (index 58033): PLAYER1 response 148

Minsc, you are a valiant warrior... but there's no need for you to risk your life in this battle.  This is my fight.

 

Text (index 58199): MINSCJ phrase 209

Minsc owes much to the killer of Dynaheir!  I stand with you!  Nowhere shall I go until the heel of justice has been firmly imprinted once and for all into the wizard's evil backside!  Nowhere!

 

This is why I suggested that Dynaheir shouldn't die at the end of BG1 (or at least, not at the hands of Sarevok and his minions). It was only a suggestion, though.

[Hendryk]

I don't think SoA says that Irenicus killed Dynaheir; what I got from Minsc's words were that as they were kidnapped, Dynaheir was killed while Minsc saw but could not help. It could've been a stray arrow or something as opposed to Irenicus torturing/murdering her.

Even Minsc's initial line; "They...they killed her as I watched, you see?" isn't something that would normally be said if Minsc were doing something else at the time, like fighting, and happened to notice Dyna die. It's more like something one would say who wasn't able to do anything but watch at the time.

 

Now you could always reply that with Hold Person, etc., but I can't find anything to indicate that there was a struggle when the party was kidnapped. Irenicus wouldn't have wanted one. He wanted the PC intact and he was the ringmaster for that event so I doubt very seriously that there was a fight. It certainly isn't enough to hypothesize that there *could* have been a fight, just nobody that was there mentions it.

[BigRob]

I got the impression that Dynaheir got the same treatment as Khalid, killed in front of Imoen. Imoen doesn't mention it though, so maybe Dynaheir was thrown to Bodhi (explaining Minsc's dislike of vampires).

[NiGHTMARE]

I've always been under the belief that Dynaheir was killed whilst attempting to fight off your attackers.

[Hendryk]

Fighting attackers would be the natural thing to do - if the party could manage it. Jaheira doesn't mention any fight at the kidnapping though and her memory seems the best of the four surviving party members. And to repeat myself, Irenicus would not have wanted a fight and would have planned his assault so that there was an absolute minimum of a chance for resistance.

[Kai of Candlekeep]

It's quite concievable that Irenicus pulled the same trick that he did in Spellhold: putting the entire party to sleep instantly, thus making them helpless to fight back while he put <CHARNAME> into the giant mayonnaise jar...

[NiGHTMARE]

Perhaps a mage cast a sleep spell or similar over the party, but Dynaheir was protected from its effects by a spell of her own?

 

I don't believe Ireniucs was there personally, however. I'm a subscriber to the belief he hired the Shadow Thieves to do it.

[Kai of Candlekeep]

I always thought that the party was kidnapped somewhere in the wilderness after the events of BG1 took place.

 

The kidnapping was more than likely masterminded by Irenicus, because he had somehow gotten word of <CHARNAME>'s heroic deeds at Baldur's Gate and the rumors of a powerful Bhaalspawn stopping a war... (yaddah, yaddah) so he sent some bounty hunters out to pick them up (Yoshimo might have been one of those), or could also have been ex-Shadow Thieves, defectors who joined Bodhi's guild.

 

Jon Irenicus and Bodhi were probably present at the kidnapping; (or even if they were not) somehow the party was either A) rendered helpless by some sort of physical trap; or B) given a sleeping potion by some barkeep or innkeeper who was bribed by the kidnappers; C) put to sleep and/or immobilized by magical means, probably by Jon himself (ala Spellhold).

 

The sleeping/immobilized/helpless party would then have been transported to Athkatla and placed in Jonny's dungeon for his later amusement. This would explain how Minsc was present and aware during Dynaheir's death, but was unable to do anything about it.. although why he didn't "bend and break" the bars of his cell I cannot say. Maybe he was restrained by magic (i.e., hold person?) while Irenicus killed Dynaheir. Maybe Minsc was also inside a giant mayonnaise jar (*shrug*), who knows? But I think Irenicus didn't just torture and kill Dynaheir for the pleasure of it, I believe he was "testing her" to see if she might be a Bhaalspawn, and she died in the process.

 

I had always imagined that Jon was in the middle of doing his "experiments" when the Shadow Thieves broke into the complex and started causing some commotion. This would explain his words to <CHARNAME> in the beggining cutscene ("Wake up, child.. It is time for more.. experiments...").

 

Quite possibly he was not sure WHICH of the eight companions was the one he was looking for; the "experiments" he conducted were probably tests to see if any of the eight companions displayed "Bhaalspawn tendencies" under the stress of torture. This is possibly how he learned about Imoen's divine heritage as well (must have been quite a bonus to find out there were TWO Bhaalspawns, instead of just one).

 

Testing each of the eight companions one by one would explain two things: 1) why not everyone was dead at the beginning of BG2; and 2) why he dissected and tortured each of them.

 

Obviously, he was in the middle of something when the Shadow Thieves broke into the compound, and quite obviously, he was not finished with his testing. Somewhere in the middle of all this ruckus, Imoen somehow breaks out of her cage and frees you.... and there, the story of BG2 begins.

[Hendryk]

Perhaps a mage cast a sleep spell or similar over the party, but Dynaheir was protected from its effects by a spell of her own?

In that case though, Minsc would have been sleeping or fighting, not "watching", no?

 

 

  I don't believe Ireniucs was there personally, however.  I'm a subscriber to the belief he hired the Shadow Thieves to do it.

 

I absolutely agree that Irenicus was not there personally because Imoen, in the intro, states that the party got "jumped". That implies very strongly that she saw people who were jumping the party. If Jon had been there in person, she might have noticed a megaspell effect forming but almost certainly not any "jumpers". So Jon wasn't there. That suggests that he wasn't sure enough of the PC's value to go himself but that makes a pretty long chain of inference.

 

As for hiring the Shadow Thieves for the job, I dunno. Judging by the haul in CI, Irenicus wasn't all that wealthy but of course, he could have been until he paid the ST's. Still, he was running a secret mage laboratory in one of the least mage-friendly cities in Faerun. It would seem a little odd that he'd risk his security by contracting, even through an intermediary, with the Shadow Thieves. And the Shadow Thieves *would* charge a lot of money for the job since the PC is someone of at least local note by the end of BG1. For Jon to be willing to *pay* a lot of money for the PC, though, I think he'd have to be certain of the PC's value to him. And if he were certain of that, he'd have gone after the PC himself and I don't think he did that. So I really don't know but I kinda doubt he'd have hired the Shadow Thieves directly.

 

So how did Aran Linvail find out about the kidnapping? I don't know that for certain obviously. Perhaps certain Shadow Thieves are allowed to contract independently at times when the Guild has no need of their services. Or perhaps some small group of indies was hired and one of them was an ST spy or friends with one and blabbed. Aran does say that "We knew of your capture almost as soon as it happened." This sounds more like an informant was involved than that it was a job sponsored by the ST organization. But of course, if the STs *had* done the job, Aran wouldn't be such a fool as to tell the PC about it so it's just a hint rather than proof.

[Andyr]

Well, regardless of who does actually kill her, I would agree with the poster above that suggested it would happen at the start of BGII rather than the end of BGI.

[Tancred]

'Figures cloaked in mist who clouded your thoughts'? I was under the impression the job of capturing you was the work of Bodhi's vampires and their fledgling 'Assassin's Guild'. Why were you taken unawares and rendered helpless? Because the vampires charmed the lot of you. Why did the Shadow Thieves find out? Because they were keeping a close watch on their rival guild's activities at the time. Why were the vampires sent? Because it's a vital job.

[Hendryk]

Uh, how did vampires, who have to retreat by day from the sun, travel all the way to Baldur's Gate after you? And lug you back afterwards? And why take all six party members? If Irenicus knew enough to send such important underlings, but not enough to go hunting himself, surely he'd have mentioned which *one*, as far as he knew, was the important target?

 

Makes more sense to me that Jon had just heard vague rumors from "up north" and sent a squad of goons on the off-chance that something useful might turn up. The goons delivered, perhaps with the use of some Irenicus-provided device, but the goons, who probably never saw Jon in person, would be less likely to know which of their victims, exactly, was "PC of Candlekeep" so they might have toted all six vicitms back to leave no room for error. And Jon got lucky twice; snagged both the PC and Imoen.

 

It's all just guess-work anyway. For all we know, Irenicus thought it possible that the PC & Co were a League of Junior Bhaalspawn who'd banded together to down Sarevok and that's why he ordered all six taken. If we can assume Jon knew about the Prophecies of Alaundo. And where would he have got that from? It's not at all the likeliest thing for a great elf wizard to bother about, since it didn't involve elves, and since then, with a lifespan is no longer than a human's, he's been pretty busy - setting up in secret beneath Athkatla, plotting with drow and rakshasa, dipping former friends and associates into bell jars and so on. Not a lot of time to study Alaundo with all those distractions, even if, as funny-looking as he was, he could have got in to the source at CK.

 

Eh, it's everyone suit her/himself since we can't really know. And actually, it's kind of more fun that way.

[Tancred]

Uh, how did vampires, who have to retreat by day from the sun, travel all the way to Baldur's Gate after you?  And lug you back afterwards?

I don't think the entire of Bodhi's guild are vampires. The majority are likely to be humans (former Shadow Thieves, recruited street thugs) in the vamps' thrall. The vampires have to feed on someone - and this would explain why the figure seen in the opening BG2 movie was a hooded thief-type character. As for travelling all the way to Baldur's Gate - we know that the PC had left Baldur's Gate before his/her capture, and it's never really established exactly where the PC went, so the capture could well have happened closer to Amn. I don't think your thoughts on the matter and mine are incompatible at all - your 'random goons' could well have been a team of Bodhi's.

 

Although the prophecies of Alaundo aren't subject matter that might intrigue Irenicus, I imagine the subject of semi-divine souls would be, as that's the key upon which his entire plan hangs.

[Domi]

One little question, however, regarding the Dynaheir romance in BG1: I thought I read somewhere that she dies at the end of BG1, not sure if this implies she was killed by Sarevok or someone else. My question is, how does this translate into continuity, since it is made very clear in SoA that it was Jon Irenicus who killed her, right in front of Minsc? Maybe it would be better to let her live instead, to keep the story consistent with SoA content?

 

And I am going to go all mysterious now and say: once the Phase III is out you will see and I hope it will not dissappoint

[lennon]

I don't think SoA says that Irenicus killed Dynaheir; what I got from Minsc's words were that as they were kidnapped, Dynaheir was killed while Minsc saw but could not help. It could've been a stray arrow or something as opposed to Irenicus torturing/murdering her.

If I remember correctly, Minsc's Favored Enemy is vampires. Don't we know someone close to Irenicus that is a vampire? Just a thought...not a nice one, though.

Minsc's preferred enemies change between 1 & 2. From Gnolls to Vampires!