Jump to content

Druids


Aranthys

Recommended Posts

True Druid

- I'm working on two forms, Bear and Wolf (Arda will surely manage to force me to work on a 3rd, but I'm not convinced yet). Similarly to what you have in mind the Bear performs as a tank (higher hp, physical resistance, etc.) while the Wolf will have a more offensive purpose (faster movement and attack rate, trip ability, scent, etc.). Both forms will improve as the Druid grows in level, receiving at least one huge update into the respective Dire form.
You will work on a 3rd, you're convinced already ;)

Seriously, two forms is too few. Either one or three, but not two please. Elemental Shape is gonna have three options too, after all.

 

Also, the toss-up is whether higher level wild shape forms should be replaced with more powerful species, or with upgraded base ones. Assuming we still want them to remain useful in ToB, there should be at least 2 upgrades, and I'm unsure we can find animals greater than Dire.

Hence I propose to stick to regular wolf/bear/leopard and apply advancement templates to them instead. I've dug out the Book of Templates Deluxe (3e), and found in there Animal -> Elder Beast -> Spirit -> Beast Lord (for the 25th level HLA) upgrades, which seem quite fine, except for the fact it is 3.5 stuff and is only partially canon.

 

Shapeshifter

Frankly, I'd prefer bonuses to regular forms, than werewolves.

Link to comment

True Druid

- I'm working on two forms, Bear and Wolf (Arda will surely manage to force me to work on a 3rd, but I'm not convinced yet). Similarly to what you have in mind the Bear performs as a tank (higher hp, physical resistance, etc.) while the Wolf will have a more offensive purpose (faster movement and attack rate, trip ability, scent, etc.). Both forms will improve as the Druid grows in level, receiving at least one huge update into the respective Dire form.
You will work on a 3rd, you're convinced already ;)

Seriously, two forms is too few. Either one or three, but not two please. Elemental Shape is gonna have three options too, after all.

You know my problem with that, I have enough room to make bear and wolf (or any other feline form such as leopard, tiger or panther) extremely different, whereas a third form would just fit somewhere in the middle and provide nothing special imo. It could be ok if the panther form could grant hide in shadows, but I can't short of making it work via invisibility spell (wouldn't it look bad?), and then we could just have bear and panther granting everything on their own (is there something a wolf form would do better than a panther form?).

 

The only additional forms which could add something imo would be "utility forms", but unlike PnP most of them simply don't work in BG (e.g. a flying form is more or less pointless, not to mention a fish form), and others requires heavy stretches to be appealing (e.g. a non-detectable rat form, a "free action" cat).

 

Also, the toss-up is whether higher level wild shape forms should be replaced with more powerful species, or with upgraded base ones. Assuming we still want them to remain useful in ToB, there should be at least 2 upgrades, and I'm unsure we can find animals greater than Dire.

Hence I propose to stick to regular wolf/bear/leopard and apply advancement templates to them instead. I've dug out the Book of Templates Deluxe (3e), and found in there Animal -> Elder Beast -> Spirit -> Beast Lord (for the 25th level HLA) upgrades, which seem quite fine, except for the fact it is 3.5 stuff and is only partially canon.

I thought that as long as general stats (e.g. thac0, hit points, etc.) grow with 'caster level' even Dire forms can say their own during "common encounters", allowing the druid to perform as a relatively good normal warrior if forced to melee. Am I wrong?

 

At mid-high levels druid's spellcasting role is more pronounced imo, and for "bosses" or harder fights in general an archdruid will surely either use spells or turn into a powerful Elemental form anyway, don't you think?

 

Anyway, I'm not sure I like the idea of using semi-official PnP material to create animal forms as powerful as greater/elder elementals (e.g. what could possible offer a bear compared to an earth elemental? It may be just me, but I cannot imagine the former having more more hp, better AC or dealing more damage, not to mention having as many resistances or immunities).

 

The question is: can animal forms remain at least useful for some encounters, or do they become completely obsolete?

 

 

P.S Pathfinder probably had our same problem, and made elemental forms share the same "uses per day" of animal forms, thus at mid-high level PF's druids simply stop using animal forms.

 

Shapeshifter

Frankly, I'd prefer bonuses to regular forms, than werewolves.
Well, I would also prefer what leania suggested (pretty much AD&D Shapeshifter). Even moving here more appropriate magical beasts such as Sword Spider, Wyvern and Winter Wolf would fit more than vanilla's Werewolf imo. The problem is that 99% of BG players know this class as "the one with the powerful werewolf shape", and I fear changing that is too big of a change for a Revisions mod. I'm having the same "self imposed rule" conflict with other kits, and deciding what is acceptable, and what is not is a difficult decision. :(
Link to comment

Shapeshifter

Well, I would also prefer what leania suggested (pretty much AD&D Shapeshifter). Even moving here more appropriate magical beasts such as Sword Spider, Wyvern and Winter Wolf would fit more than vanilla's Werewolf imo. The problem is that 99% of BG players know this class as "the one with the powerful werewolf shape", and I fear changing that is too big of a change for a Revisions mod. I'm having the same "self imposed rule" conflict with other kits, and deciding what is acceptable, and what is not is a difficult decision. :(

 

Hmm... I think it is reasonable enough to change the concept of Shapeshifter from current annoying Werewolf form to the other forms whatever suitable animal forms (partially or not) for Druids. The Werewolf is one of Lycanthrope, not shapechange at all imo... You did make WS not to keep the annoying demerit which can not equip/use magical items even though the other WS rebalancing/revisions mods have kept the feature, didn't you? :D I think Werewolf for Druid's shapechange form is ridiculous as much as the WS's disadvantage.

Link to comment
The question is: can animal forms remain at least useful for some encounters, or do they become completely obsolete?
As in - what can an animal form offer that a spellcasting druid with +3 equipment can't already? I suppose little indeed, short of higher ApR, which will still be insufficient to compete with a fighter.
Link to comment

Just my 5 cents:

 

I really like the shapeshifter werewolf-theme, and would hate to see it go. Both rp-wise, and in gameplay. It fits nicely with the ToTsc expansion, and gives this druid kit a very distinct flavor.

 

Keeping the theme intact provides some advantages:

 

- A werewolf form lends itself naturally to a quite fun playstyle: regeneration, immunities and high movement speed, instead of low ac + high dmg. This way, the druid becomes more of a hit-and-run/war of attrition fighter, instead of the regular "stand still and hit the enemy as hard as you can until one of you dies" that most other warrior types represent... It also integrates very well with spell casting, as the shapeshifter can fight for a while, then run away to regenerate, change form, cast spells, then change back and reenter the fray etc.

 

- The regular animal shapeshifting can be reserved and expanded on for true druids or avengers. This makes the druid forms stand apart conceptually, and allows for a lot more variety in the animal forms of the other kits, without overlapping with the shapeshifter.

 

Also, I agree with your notion Demivrgvs, that you should attempt to keep the kits somewhat close to the original game, at least in flavor. There is already tons of mods available if you want to change the core concept of the classes. I think KR would see much more use if you simply rebalance the vanilla game, while keeping it thematically intact.

 

Lastly, you could always change the names of the kits if the "shapeshifter means something completely different in pnp"-thing bothers you. Lycant for example?

 

/Johs

Link to comment

Druids are pretty much all I play (I refuse to play bg2:ee until SR can load with it), and it would rock to have the kits working.

 

I pretty much am forced to play Avenger just to have things to work with in vanilla, and I'm torn on the kit -- it by far has the most options, but some of the shapeshifts can go: Fire salamander is silly, and if spiders did poison damage, tank bear + dmg wolf + speed and dot spider(anti spellcaster) are all that are needed.

 

That said, a kit that separates shapeshifts from the buffed spellcasting of the avenger seems most sensible *sigh* -- or simply move the Avenger's buffed spell repertoire over to totemic druid.

 

All that said: I would kill for a kit that sped up druid spellcasting (slow as molasses!) for a mage-like druid.

Link to comment

I don't have time for my usual walls of text, but my plan for druids can be summarized like this:

- improve shape shifting abilities to make them actually good (this is especially needed for the True Druid)

- make the Avenger a sort of "evoker druid" (e.g. Spell Rage!!!)

- make the Shapeshifter a sort of "transmuter druid" (e.g. powerful magic beast form or forms)

- make the Totemic Druid a sort of "conjurer druid" (e.g. conjure spirit companions, Symbol-like totem spells?, etc.)

 

All that said: I would kill for a kit that sped up druid spellcasting (slow as molasses!) for a mage-like druid.

KR's Avenger will make you happy then. ;)

Link to comment

i love druids.. couple thoughts with shape shifter.. making a high lvl form or partial form really like the inward/outward partial shifts idea....... maybe HLA.. or something with a short duration but +4 or +5 weap eqv.....because it doesnt make sense to focus so much on shape shifting and then have to go and find a freaking +5 club when you are at the peak of your classes power to deal qwith one foe... i kinda belive that a classes focus should provide its weapons .. im also a fan of monks having +1 increments to fist every 5 lvls so +4 and 20 +5 at 25 and same for druids as the form gets more powerful or they start getting into epic lvls .. give em the ablity to cope with the epic enviroment they will be in. maybe an HLA ability to boost claws/fangs for short duration from +3 to +5 5to hit.. a enchantment effect..or a 7th lvl spell that does that...give it a really short duration that scales slightly... or jumps when lvl 20 or 25 is reached.. or something........give em something to keep em using their special kit... to keep em in line with what a fighter would have in a weapon or a mage in a spell ... other wise at epic lvls a shape shifter will be reduced to just being another caster..summoner

 

other thing i support shape shifting /casting especially for shifter kit... most other dual form natural shifters in d&d can cast.. a shape shifter kit.. druid should probably have that ablitiy maybe once they hit lvl 10..or something... maybe a small failure chance that decreases every x lvls a cast failure penalty that goes away as lvls increase... or casting speed penalty thatr decreases.. not just in partial shift form..

i do like the partial shift idea.. and the combination of inner and outer form potential...

but i admit to being torn for the traditional lycanthrope forms.. .. maybe were wolf grtr were wolf.. hlas for a ultimate lycanthrope form.... were bear .. were tiger/lep...supiror were wolf..

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...