Guest Jarek Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hello, Is there any list of energy-based and elemental-based spells (divine and arcane)? Thx, Jarek Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well, that would be quite a long list... May I ask why do you need such list? By "energy" do you intend "magic damage"? Because "elemental damage" is a subtype of "energy damage". Acid + Cold + Electricity + Fire = Elemental Damage Elemental Damage + Magic Damage = Energy Damage Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 By "energy" do you intend "magic damage"? Because "elemental damage" is a subtype of "energy damage". Quite sure the Energy damage is "Magical damage" alone, so Magic Missile, Abi HW etc, while Elemental Damage is what you said. Fireball, Fireseed, Fire... Ice Storm, ... Those all of course are subject to Magic Resistance if the spell allows it to be, which in most cases it does, and I hate that cause it can blog the whole 1000 points of damage single handily, as if the dragons wouldn't be hard enough to kill with their elemental resistances, they need to also have Magic Resistance etc. Link to comment
Guest Jarek Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thx to you and Demivrgvs for answer. My question was related to spells: Protection from the Elements Protection from Energy They have in description: Protection from the Elements When this spell is cast, it confers complete protection from all elemental attacks composed of acid, cold, electricity, or fire, whether magical or non-magical in origin. 100% of the elemental damage from attacks with weapons, wands, breath weapons, etc. will be absorbed, and the target creature will become completely immune to the effects of elemental spells. This effect lasts for the duration of the spell or until dispelled. Protection from Energy When this spell is cast, it confers complete protection from all energy attacks composed of acid, cold, electricity, fire, or magic damage, whether magical or non-magical in origin. 100% of the energy damage from attacks with weapons, wands, breath weapons, etc. will be absorbed, and the target creature will become completely immune to the effects of energy-based spells. This effect lasts for the duration of the spell or until dispelled. That means Energy=Elements+magic as in Demivrgvs post. I read description of above spells and wasn't able to find difference. After Demivrgvs answer I found the difference. Thx once again. Jarek Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Jarek, I guessed your doubt was about those spells because I had the very same doubt when I was new to BGII (ages ago). By "energy" do you intend "magic damage"? Because "elemental damage" is a subtype of "energy damage". Quite sure the Energy damage is "Magical damage" alone, so Magic Missile, Abi HW etc, while Elemental Damage is what you said. Fireball, Fireseed, Fire... Ice Storm, ... There's Protection from Energy (any type of energy) and Protection from Magic Energy (magic damage). Those all of course are subject to Magic Resistance if the spell allows it to be, which in most cases it does, and I hate that cause it can blog the whole 1000 points of damage single handily, as if the dragons wouldn't be hard enough to kill with their elemental resistances, they need to also have Magic Resistance etc. Well, having elemental based spells bypass magic resistance would be insanely unfair imo. Damage dealing spells usually can't be negated by a save like most spells, you can only halve the damage dealt, and that's a huge advantage over save-or-else spells. Magic Resistance works the same way against any type of spell. It can "blog the whole 1000 points of damage" just as well as it can nullify a charm, hold, or death effect. You should consider Fire Resistance just as any other resistance/immunity. There are creatures immune to charm, others immune to death effects, and others resistant to elemental damage. I really don't get why elemental damage should have the "bypass magic resistance" feature. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You should consider Fire Resistance just as any other resistance/immunity. There are creatures immune to charm, others immune to death effects, and others resistant to elemental damage. I really don't get why elemental damage should have the "bypass magic resistance" feature. Well, cause there is no magic used in Fireball, after it has escaped from the Elemental Plane of Fire. Or the damage would be Magical Fire Damage. And what comes to, charms etc. had the immunity be a effect that prevents the spells from working only 90% of the time, we could just cast hold spells to every dragon there is and load if it didn't work this time either. So there should be magic immunity that's different from damage immunity. And with Magic Immunity, it's not really working. *The Imps goes to a corner and* Sorry, still interested? Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You should consider Fire Resistance just as any other resistance/immunity. There are creatures immune to charm, others immune to death effects, and others resistant to elemental damage. I really don't get why elemental damage should have the "bypass magic resistance" feature. Well, cause there is no magic used in Fireball, after it has escaped from the Elemental Plane of Fire. Or the damage would be Magical Fire Damage. There's no magic used in Fireball?! Since when? What you describe would be a conjuration/summon of a pre-existing Fireball, instead of a ball of fire shaped through magic. Regarding magic fire and normal fire, they are the very same thing within SR. Wasn't silly to differentiate magic fire/cold and not having magic acid/electicity? It's not fire itself which is magical or not imo, it's how fire is used which determines if it's magical or not (e.g. a torch is not magical, a fireball is). Anyway, what you say more or less is: * immunity + magic resistance + save to negate = fine * damage resistance + magic resistance + save for half = annoying Sorry, but I doubt I can agree on that. So there should be magic immunity that's different from damage immunity. And with Magic Immunity, it's not really working. Sorry, still interested?Interested in what? Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Interested in what? My rants... Well, perhaps I miss_spoke a bit, I ment to say that the magic ends in the Fireball about a second before it explodes(and thus it explodes), thus the the spell is not a conjuration, as it would explode on the conjurers face, but an Invocation-Evocation as the magic keeps the energy from being released... It's also obvious that an Invoker can then summon an Delayed Blast Fireball later on levels. The fire is not magical, the forces holding the fire is, just like the torch can be magical or made of wood, in which cases the effect is totally different, at least in these rules of the game. Why there is no magical acid/electicity damage is that the game makers needed to stay within a certain preset damage type restriction that covers spells, melee and ranged attacks. Anyway, what you say more or less is:* immunity + magic resistance + save to negate = fine * damage resistance + magic resistance + save for half = annoying Sorry, but I doubt I can agree on that. Well Magic Immunity + Magic Resistance + Save to Negate are fine.Magic damage resistance + Elemental resistance + and Saves for half are fine too. But not mix and match! Link to comment
Demivrgvs Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well, perhaps I miss_spoke a bit, I ment to say that the magic ends in the Fireball about a second before it explodes(and thus it explodes), thus the the spell is not a conjuration, as it would explode on the conjurers face, but an Invocation-Evocation as the magic keeps the energy from beng released... It's also obvious that an Invoker can then summon an Delayed Blast Fireball later on levels. The fire is not magical, the forces holding the fire is, just like the torch can be magical or made of wood, in which cases the effect is totally different, at least in these rules of the game.Well, then we could say Entangle and Web should bypass magic resistance because the plants/webs are real (I'd agree on this a lot more easily), Grease should bypass magic resistance too, Firestorm and Ice Storm are "real" and so on. Why there is no magical acid/electicity damage is that the game makers needed to stay within a certain preset damage type restriction that covers spells, melee and ranged attacks.Preset? How can it be a preset restriction when you're building a game from scratch?!? Anyway, it really doesn't matter much in this discussion. Anyway, what you say more or less is:* immunity + magic resistance + save to negate = fine * damage resistance + magic resistance + save for half = annoying Sorry, but I doubt I can agree on that. Well Magic Immunity + Magic Resistance + Save to Negate are fine.Magic damage resistance + Elemental resistance + and Saves for half are fine too. But not mix and match! It doesn't make sense at all to me, and I'm almost sure the vast majority of players wouldn't agree too. Despite my love for discussion I have to make one thing clear: I'll never do this, because making elemental-based spells bypass magic resistance on a regular basis is insanely unbalanced. Link to comment
Jarno Mikkola Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 ...Well, then we could say Entangle and Web should bypass magic resistance because the plants/webs are real (I'd agree on this a lot more easily), Grease should bypass magic resistance too, Firestorm and Ice Storm are "real" and so on. Well, at least I haven't seen a real plant that suddenly comes out of nowhere and Entagles people. The web is a little more complicated, but the explanation can be that cause the weave is not real(not made out of real substance), the magic effects to it, making it magically resistible. Same goes for Grease... and the Fire&Ice Storm can either be magical, or none magical, and thus subject to magic resistance or not, and with the current rules, they are real heat and cold, thus not subject to magical resistance. Well, shouldn't be. ... Well Magic Immunity + Magic Resistance + Save to Negate are fine.Magic damage resistance + Elemental damage resistance + and Saves for half are fine too. But not mix and match! It doesn't make sense at all to me, and I'm almost sure the vast majority of players wouldn't agree too. Well, to me it does: cause in the first case; the alternative is death, in the second; it's just a bit more damage. Despite my love for discussion I have to make one thing clear: I'll never do this, because making elemental-based spells bypass magic resistance on a regular basis is insanely unbalanced. I am not saying that you need to... Link to comment
Ardanis Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 To defend against FB, we already have saves and fire resistance. Mind-affecting stuff, otoh, makes the best candidate to be a subject to MR. But I've already spoken my mind in the past. Link to comment
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