Revised Potions

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Magic Blocking

Well, conceptually I really don't like the idea of a potion that once imbibed creates a plasma ball 3-5 feet away from the imbiber, do you?

Is Potion of Barkskin going to change skin color? If it does, thus indicating a certain change of matter, then I'd say a ball can appear as well. Perhaps those visuals are merely perceived as fancy magick, while in reality they're a sort of magnetic (magical) field which distorts the light (magic)?

Potion of Barkskin is giving me a headache because I realized that for non SR users having it not stack with the spell doesn't make much sense (in vanilla it worked in a different way). Thus I'm struggling to decide wheter to use it or just have a generic +3 AC which stacks with everything else and has no visual effect.

 

Anyway, one thing is altering the imbiber's skin appearence with a "liquid" which flows through his body, another thing is creating an external magical sphere.

 

 

Any sane person would be able to see how this idea came out (by comparing green scrolls of protection to these potions), thus if they want to say we're stealing ideas they're welcome.

Evil corps of EA caliber are ruled by mad AI harsh market laws, not by sane people. We're in for big troubles here, guys, so we better ready Teleport Without Error spells

[Ardanis]

Potion of Magic Blocking

Anyway, one thing is altering the imbiber's skin appearence with a "liquid" which flows through his body, another thing is creating an external magical sphere.

Liquid which flows through imbiber's veins, saturates the sinew, so that it creates a magical magnet with a south (or north) pole inside the stomach and another dispersed on the outer shape? Surely such a device can distort the space around, which results in magic bouncing off it and visible local aurora.

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Magic Blocking

Anyway, one thing is altering the imbiber's skin appearence with a "liquid" which flows through his body, another thing is creating an external magical sphere.

Liquid which flows through imbiber's veins, saturates the sinew, so that it creates a magical magnet with a south (or north) pole inside the stomach and another dispersed on the outer shape? Surely such a device can distort the space around, which results in magic bouncing off it and visible local aurora.

Wow.

 

 

Potion of Absorption

I've thought about this more than you can imagine, and it led me to the conclusion I had to deal with stacking 'physical resistance' bonuses, with or without this potion (e.g. no armor physical resistance, and limits to the type of items that can grant this effect). As long as I do that I think I can let this potion grant 20% resistance like most of you prefer.

 

 

Potion of Sharp Eyes

Small but quite important aspect...unless I prevent it (I can if we wish so) the ability to see invisible creatures granted by this potion bypasses things like SI:Div and liches immunity to spells. Conceptually I'm fine with it, balance-wise I don't know. Let me know your opinions.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Potion of Magic Blocking

...

Wow.

Just look what the Earths core does to it's magnetic field and what happens to most of the UV rays. The first link I found.

And technically I would put the magical North pole to the impuders head, and South pole to the feet...

 

And if you wish an explanation to the visual effects, just come to the Northern part Finland and see yourself the 'Northern Lights'.

 

Potion of Sharp Eyes

Small but quite important aspect... the ability to see invisible creatures granted by this potion bypasses things like SI:Div and liches immunity to spells. Conceptually I'm fine with it, balance-wise I don't know. Let me know your opinions.

I would suggest that you'll wait for DavidW imput no this matter, but I think he'll say no.

Of course I ask, what does the Liches immunity to the spell has anything to do with this? As the Liches illusion spells and clones all should be cancelled except the 'temporary invisibility' granted by the clone spells that brake when the lich does something, anything hostile, when the clone is dead or disintegrated/dispelled. So, do not reveal the lich, just remove all the other illusionary effects.

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Sharp Eyes

Small but quite important aspect... the ability to see invisible creatures granted by this potion bypasses things like SI:Div and liches immunity to spells. Conceptually I'm fine with it, balance-wise I don't know. Let me know your opinions.

I would suggest that you'll wait for DavidW imput no this matter, but I think he'll say no.

Of course I ask, what does the Liches immunity to the spell has anything to do with this? As the Liches illusion spells and clones all should be cancelled except the 'temporary invisibility' granted by the clone spells that brake when the lich does something, anything hostile, when the clone is dead or disintegrated/dispelled. So, do not reveal the lich, just remove all the other illusionary effects.

I'm not following you...who said anything about illusionary effects and clones being affected by this spell? The suggested effect isn't supposed to dispel Mirror Image, Blur and the like, nor to reveal a lich invisible via Mislead, or destroy a clone such as Project Image or Simulacrum.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Potion of Sharp Eyes I'm not following you...who said anything about illusionary effects and clones being affected by this spell? The suggested effect isn't supposed to dispel Mirror Image, Blur and the like, nor to reveal a lich invisible via Mislead, or destroy a clone such as Project Image or Simulacrum.

Actually it was me that lost it there, but still, I see very few just 'Invisible' liches in the game, so when the potion dispels just those effects, the lich doesn't need to be immune to it, and the potion can be used to see the lich when the clone has been got rid of with other systems, if the main lich is not protected by anything else(which it probably should be).

[Ardanis]

Potion of Magic Blocking

Wow.

So... you agree then?

 

Potion of Absorption

I've thought about this more than you can imagine

Thinking is always good, well done

 

As long as I do that I think I can let this potion grant 20% resistance like most of you prefer.

I still don't get why you dislike barbs receiving lesser bonus, but whatever you say.

 

Potion of Sharp Eyes

the ability to see invisible creatures granted by this potion bypasses things like SI:Div and liches immunity to spells.

I see no big deal with liches, provided the effect lasts for one turn at most, but are you certain about bypassing SI? I would simulate the rogue's ability to detect illusion, which does not ignore SI (with proper mods, at least).

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Magic Blocking

Wow.

So... you agree then?

I'm still thinking about it...my brain is very slow and it takes me ages to decide something like that!

 

Potion of Absorption

I've thought about this more than you can imagine

Thinking is always good, well done

Armor Physical Resistance was one of the few things we didn't agree on (you were against it), and at the end I agree with you again.

 

As long as I do that I think I can let this potion grant 20% resistance like most of you prefer.

I still don't get why you dislike barbs receiving lesser bonus, but whatever you say.

Because physical resistance is their trademark, and penalizing them on that seems unfair.

 

 

Potion of Sharp Eyes

the ability to see invisible creatures granted by this potion bypasses things like SI:Div and liches immunity to spells.

I see no big deal with liches, provided the effect lasts for one turn at most, but are you certain about bypassing SI? I would simulate the rogue's ability to detect illusion, which does not ignore SI (with proper mods, at least).

Well, as I said it's easy for me to make it detectable as a Detect Invisibility spell (with no spell lvl if necessary). Conceptually I don't like this potion effects or thieves Detect Illusions being stopped by SI:Div, but I'm fine with it for the sake of game balance.

[Demivrgvs]

I've almost finished everything concerning potions, and I have two global changes I'd like to mention (one is actually quite big).

 

 

"Detectable" Potions

In vanilla the only string displayed when a character drinked a potion was "gulp!", but I've made them work similarly to spells, which means a string will show which potion has been used by the creature. I can remove this "unrealistic" feature, but I'd actually keep it for gameplay reasons.

 

 

Potions & Wizard Slayers

The way we handle potions I do think there's no reason for such class to not be able to use them, even within vanilla's rules for this kit. IR's potions aren't magical devices but alchemical mixtures.

 

Now, I never thought anyone could be against thieves being able to use wands as per PnP, which means someone may be against this too, thus if Mike has any interest in this matter we may opt for making such feature optional.

[yarpen]

The way we handle potions I do think there's no reason for such class to not be able to use them, even within vanilla's rules for this kit. IR's potions aren't magical devices but alchemical mixtures.

That's great because it removes the problem of inconsistency "Wizard slayer cannot use any potions with exception of healing ones".

[Salk]

I have nothing against those changes, Demi.

[Demivrgvs]

I'm exhausted...This component could have been a mod on its own judging by its size (50+ .itm files, 50+ .spl ones and few .eff ones). I've worked half the night on this and still I havent' managed to finish. I've 3 potions left to do ('of Power', 'of Magic Blocking' and 'of Mirrored Eyes'), and then I have to build the setup file (the .tra one is ready).

 

After that I'll post every info as I usually do in case there's something to discuss, and then I'll made a beta available to those who'd like to test it pre v3.

 

 

Salk, does your Cursed Item Revision mod affects the "cursed" potions? I've already re-made them with the "spell-like" template but if that's a problem I can leave them alone. Actually I really think these potions are a waste of time, and I don't like a lot of things about them (e.g. why the hell they have custom bams? it makes even more obvious that they are cursed!!).

[Shaitan]

Hi!

 

I've found some energypotions and managed to come back to read a lot Time's hard on me now, but I'll try to follow the discussions.

 

I agree almost with everything you've done Demi, but I've a few comments

 

Potion of Hill/Stone/Frost/Fire/Cloud/Storm Giant Strength

 

I think it's fine with setting the strength, and not adding to it. Reducing the duration is also good. I'd let other classes use these potions. And I really don't care about the stackability

 

Potion of Defense

I like the idea of barkskin. I'd prefer that solution. Duration of 5 is good.

 

Potion of Freedom

Fine with a price of 400.

 

Potion of Master Thievery

I'd ask you to steal. And if so steal what Avenger RR did for Rogue Rebalancing. And then pick the PnP component only

 

I'd like to know how IR potion revision (and SR) works with G3tweakpack's "Cast potions/scrolls on caster level" and not as default level 10?

 

If you think of adding potions I'd point your nose in the direction of igi's iiItem's potion component:

Potions

-------

Potion of Mirror Image

Potion of Lesser Restoration [flavour item]

Potion of Refreshment

Potion of Elemental Stability

Potion of Vocalize

Potion of Necromantic Recuperation

Potion of Critical Skill

Umberhulk Blood [flavour item]

Rocksalt

Perfume

Those highlighted could be really worthwhile

 

Cheers

[Jarno Mikkola]

Potion of Freedom

, it's that the 'Potion of Freedom Of Movement', not the 9th level dispel spell for the 'Imprisonment'.

[Demivrgvs]

Potion of Defense

I like the idea of barkskin. I'd prefer that solution. Duration of 5 is good.

Yep, that was my preferred solution too (and conceptually it still is), but then I realized that for non-SR players it probably wouldn't make sense for a barkskin-like effect to work as incremental bonus and for this potion to be non-stackable with vanilla's spell.

 

Else we can make it non-stackable only with itself, and I could opt for an ironskin-like effect to keep a cosmetic effect and a portrait icon (the latter is a must have imo). Vanilla's Iron Skin is completely different and thus we shouldn't need to make the two effects non-stackable.

 

 

Potion of Freedom

, it's that the 'Potion of Freedom Of Movement', not the 9th level dispel spell for the 'Imprisonment'.

Are you suggesting to make the potion grant immunity to Imprisonment? That would be too convenient imo.

 

 

Cast Spells from Scrolls (and Other Items) at Character Level

I'd like to know how IR potion revision (and SR) works with G3tweakpack's "Cast potions/scrolls on caster level" and not as default level 10?

That component doesn't affect potions. Vanilla's potion didn't used .spl files and couldn't have a "caster lvl" at all, their effects were always considered as if cast by a 1st lvl character.

 

 

New Potions

If you think of adding potions I'd point your nose in the direction of igi's iiItem's potion component:

...

Those highlighted could be really worthwhile

Without knowing such mod we already briefly discussed this matter.

 

Potion of Mirror Image will never happen within IR, as I really don't like the concept at all for a lot of reasons. You'd have to convince me it can suit the "alchemical potions" concept which v3 applies to all potions, and that a potion imbibed by a character can create either an external semi-real illusion or affect other people minds (the illusion doesn't really exist in this case). And a world filled with paladins and druids under Mirror Image is "silly" imo.

 

Potion of Lesser Restoration & Potion of Vocalize are instead interesting potions I already suggested, but I'm not into adding new potions. They should replace pre-existing ones, and I don't see too many candidates except perhaps the "cursed potions" (if they are not used somwhere for some reason, are they?).

 

Perfume is a nice concept, but unfortunately within BG raising charisma has only one purpose: lower item prices at stores. Thus having such potion available is like buying a Potion of Master Thievery from Ribald to steal his ring. In PnP it would be a completely different matter.