Open letter for NightMARE

[Jarno Mikkola]

MYSTIC (Lathander) - here stuff is a bit complicated (items he's capable of using)

- Weapons: Staff, dagger, sling, dart, club, mace.

- Helmets: Ioun Stones, HELM02, HELM04, HELM16

- Armors: robes, elven chains, CHAN18

Ah, darn, there is no such class as 'elven chain' nor 'Ioun stones'... I can simulate them with a weight constants that needs to be less than a set value... the non-enchanted elf armor weights is 20 unites, so if I put the constant to 21>x, I can make the armors that are 'finely maid'&'non-bulky' under that banner and make them usable by the Mystic... The Ioun Stones are a bit more in need of work, but most of them should have weight of zero...

 

So if use that to code... I'll make most of them usable. Of course those will still need refinements, but they should take care of most of the items... and because of these refinements, the code should always be used just to test features, not in an actual game before it's approved and Imp-roved, just so everyone knows, just in case I jaive the code and the install goes down the tubes.

And of course this will fry the item descriptions, but that's not my problem.

 

And thanks again for your help, Jarno. This coding which you're currently using looks like stuff from other planet. ;P

And yes, this gets more and more complicated... so I'll spare you of the code for now, as it's not really ready yet, but I hope I can make it soon... but any Imp-ut is welcome.

But the way, it's not from another planet, it's the other chaos.

 

I think that this one can wait a bit. I want to slightly re-do Mystic's restrictions, these should be quite unique and I have to study some item descriptions.

Hmm, this Imp is not really the kind of demon that really wants to wait so it goes mad on with the previously maid description unless more puts are provided to the Imp.

[yarpen]

Ah, darn, there is no such class as 'elven chain' nor 'Ioun stones'... I can simulate them with a weight constants that needs to be less than a set value... the non-enchanted elf armor weights is 20 unites, so if I put the constant to 21>x, I can make the armors that are 'finely maid'&'non-bulky' under that banner and make them usable by the Mystic... The Ioun Stones are a bit more in need of work, but most of them should have weight of zero...

 

So if use that to code... I'll make most of them usable. Of course those will still need refinements, but they should take care of most of the items... and because of these refinements, the code should always be used just to test features, not in an actual game before it's approved and Imp-roved, just so everyone knows, just in case I jaive the code and the install goes down the tubes. tongue.gif

And of course this will fry the item descriptions, but that's not my problem. groucho.gif

But can't you just at first, work on classes and then adjust restrictions "manually" in WeiDU? I know that it's duplication of work but it may works!

 

Hmm, this Imp is not really the kind of demon that really wants to wait so it goes mad on with the previously maid description unless more puts are provided to the Imp. rotflmao.gif

Ok boss, your useless drunk-quasit familiar will try to finish it as fast as his little wings and fangs allow him to.

[Jarno Mikkola]

But can't you just at first, work on classes and then adjust restrictions "manually" in WeiDU? I know that it's duplication of work but it may works!

Well, if we wish to make this mod as mod compatible as we can(with other item mods, not other cleric kits)

 

Ok boss, your useless drunk-quasit familiar will try to finish it as fast as his little wings and fangs allow him to.

Ah, no need to hurry !!!!!!!!! Just know that I'll be less available to work during the weeks and more on the weekends. So it has this feature to want things to be done on certain times.

[yarpen]

Well, if we wish to make this mod as mod compatible as we can(with other item mods, not other cleric kits).

Do you want to be a co-author of this mod? If yes, I'd be honored.

 

Ah, no need to hurry !!!!!!!!! Just know that I'll be less available to work during the weeks and more on the weekends. So it has this feature to want things to be done on certain times.

Me too, I've failed my math exam, gotta write it again so...

[Jarno Mikkola]

Do you want to be a co-author of this mod? If yes, I'd be honored.

Well, I did already put my ...

...
AUTHOR ~* & The Imp~
...

Or did you forgot it already?

The thing here is, I just don't know a lot about making the spells the Kits require, so there will be a lot of misses that I can't target, but I'll help if I can.

 

Me too, I've failed my math exam, gotta write it again so...

(with an alien sound)Hmhmhmhmhm.

[yarpen]

The thing here is, I just don't know a lot about making the spells the Kits require, so there will be a lot of misses that I can't target, but I'll help if I can.

I can handle most of stuff, but I think your Advanced Imp'ish Coding Skillz will find a proper placement many times here, because if I want to do it exaclty as i'd like to (something between being close to PnP and not too far from vanilla game) it's going to be a hard path for experts.

Mike tried to taught me about messing with item restrictions in WeiDU but gah, I'm probably just a dumb.

 

AUTHOR ~Yarpen & The Imp~

Looks damn good.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I can handle most of stuff, but I think your Advanced Imp'ish Coding Skillz will find a proper placement many times here, because if I want to do it exactly as I'd like to (something between being close to PnP and not too far from vanilla game) it's going to be a hard path for experts.

This sounds good...

 

Mike tried to taught me about messing with item restrictions in WeiDU but gah, I'm probably just a dumb.

Or you just haven't adapted to thinking the way the machine does in this matter.

 

AUTHOR ~Yarpen & The Imp~

Looks damn good.

Yeah it does... but if there's more voluntaries, I am sure well accept them... after the proper torture rituals are over.

 

Now on to the code:

BACKUP ~pantheons/backup~
AUTHOR ~Yarpen & The Imp~

BEGIN ~Cleric Usability Fixes~							 //Allow
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0002~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0005~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0010~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0013~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0014~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0018~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0019~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001d~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001e~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0020~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0043~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0044~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0045~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0049~) THEN BEGIN			
// http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_ItemType
READ_BYTE 0x1e unusecleric
WRITE_BYTE 0x1e (unusecleric BAND 0b01111111)	  
//Cleric	http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/file_formats/ie_formats/itm_v1.htm#Header_Usability
READ_BYTE 0x1f unusemulti
WRITE_BYTE 0x1f (unusemulti BAND 0b00111000)		
//Fighter/Mage/Cleric, Fighter/Cleric, Fighter/Mage, Fighter/Druid, Fighter, Cleric/Ranger, Cleric/Thief, Cleric/Mage
END
 BUT_ONLY

//Scrolls for Clerics									  //Allow
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x000b~) THEN BEGIN
READ_BYTE ~0x1e~ ~unusecleric~
WRITE_BYTE 0x1e (unusecleric BAND 0b01111111)	  
//Cleric
WRITE_BYTE 0x1f (unusemulti BAND 0b01111110) 
//Fighter/Mage/Cleric, ... Cleric/Mage
END
 BUT_ONLY

//HELM -> Crusader										 //Restrict
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x000b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0043~) THEN BEGIN
READ_BYTE ~0x0029~ ~unusehelm~
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusehelm BOR 0b00000010)	  
END
 BUT_ONLY

//TALOS -> Speciality Priest							   //Restrict
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0005~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0010~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0013~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0014~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0018~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0019~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001d~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001e~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001f~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0045~) THEN BEGIN 
READ_BYTE 0x0029 unusetalos
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BOR 0b00000001)
END
 BUT_ONLY

//Some movie magic										 //Restrict all
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
READ_BYTE ~0x0029~ ~unusetalos~
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BOR 0b00000100)
 BUT_ONLY

//LATHANDER -> Mystic (With the movie magic part 1)		//Allow alot
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0000~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0001~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0003~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0004~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0006~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0008~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0009~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000d~ OR ~type~ = ~0x000e~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0010~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0011~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0018~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x001c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0020~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0021~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0022~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0023~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0024~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0025~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0026~ OR ~type~ = ~0x002c~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0032~ OR ~type~ = ~0x003a~ OR ~type~ = ~0x003b~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0043~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0044~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0046~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0047~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0048~ OR ~type~ = ~0x0049~) THEN BEGIN
READ_BYTE 0x0029 unusetalos
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BAND 0b11111011)
END
 BUT_ONLY

//Part 2												   //Allow these
 COPY_EXISTING ~helm02.itm~ ~override~
	~helm04.itm~ ~override~
	~helm16.itm~ ~override~
	~chan18.itm~ ~override~
READ_BYTE ~0x0029~ ~unusetalos~
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BAND 0b11111011)
 BUT_ONLY

//Ioun Stones											  //Allow some of them 1
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
READ_SHORT ~0x0008~ ~unidenname~
PATCH_IF (unidenname STRING_EQUAL %Ioun Stone%) THEN BEGIN
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BAND 0b11111011)
 END

//Ioun Stone 2											 //Allow some of them 2
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0007~) THEN BEGIN
  READ_SHORT ~0x004c~ ~weight~
  PATCH_IF (~weight~ < 21) THEN BEGIN
	WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BAND 0b11111011)
END
 END
 BUT_ONLY

//Elf Armors											   //Allow most of them
 COPY_EXISTING_REGEXP GLOB ~.*\.itm~ ~override~
 READ_SHORT ~0x1c~ ~type~
 PATCH_IF (~type~ = ~0x0002~) THEN BEGIN
READ_SHORT ~0x004c~ ~weight~
PATCH_IF (~weight~ < 21) THEN BEGIN
  WRITE_BYTE 0x0029 (unusetalos BAND 0b11111011)
END
 END
 BUT_ONLY

Yes, it takes almost of 21 seconds without any other mods than the Fixpack first component on my computer, and it will backup most of the games item files, as it makes 10 rounds, but that's what you get from a demon when it makes code for chaos. And so you know, these all will of course need to be checked and for balance and things...

Hmm, question, what do you want to do with the shields? The above code should let everyone Kit use them... but I am not sure that's very smart.

[yarpen]

We really need our little place for this mod, I think that kits should also be discussed. Mystic should be capable of using only Bucklers and maaybe Small shields. Hm. :|

[Jarno Mikkola]

We really need our little place for this mod, I think that kits should also be discussed.

Well, we could invite ourselves into the Kit Revisions forum... as it's revisions, no body said it needed to be one revision package per class, nor even Demivrgvs.

Of course it could be good if you ask Demivrgvs permission to do this in a PM. Or we could revive this thread... but it's controlled by Demivrgvs.

 

I would just prefer if all the info would be in one place, and not in here, SHS, and in Kit Revisions forum.

I suggest that you would make a post somewhere just like Demivrgvs did in the above link, so it combines all the changes and you can edit the first post little by little when you think that you can make the things happen just like Demi has done in most of the Revision threads.

 

Mystic should be capable of using only Bucklers and maaybe Small shields. Hm. :|

Did that locally, almos... totally.

 

By the way:

4th step: append 'true' trueclass cleric's CLAB and add effect or summon invisible creature to launch a script which turns him into previously done Kit.

This is not necessary, cause as we are remaking the whole Cleric table, we can overwrite all the cleric tables with a plank ones and then add the kits.

Of course the NPCs need to be made into one of the kits, but I would suspect the Specialty Priest would be the best for almost all... of course we might wish to append the few area.bcs'es so they re-kit the Multi and Dualed characters... Mmh, OK, so it might be necessary... but we can simulate it with the preset Kit(none) if we just change this file: CLABPR01.2da, I think.

[yarpen]

Of course the NPCs need to be made into one of the kits, but I would suspect the Specialty Priest would be the best for almost all... of course we might wish to append the few area.bcs'es so they re-kit the Multi and Dualed characters...

I wouldn't be so sure about this. Speciality Priests should be quite rare, I don't want to spam people with it. Especially when current scripts aren't going to use special abilities. But candidates for being Speciality Priests are usually head priests of temples.I want to be quite true with PnP statisctics that Speciality Priests are something around ~10% of churches of their faith. And from joinable NPCs?

Anomen: Crusader would be a good optional kit. I don't see him as a Watcher of Helm (especially multi-dualed).

Aerie: non-kitted.

Viconia: Mystic or Nightcloak of Shar. Mystic fits to her perfectly. She isn't very loyal to her faith, isn't connected with church at all and probably even not all Selune-hating. She uses Shar for her own purposes. But she tends to bend other people's to her will and is a sort of hedonist - charming powers of Mystic fits perfectly to her.

 

It reminds me that items are great because I can handle multiclass clerics. Improved thieving powers for cleric-thief of Mask? Or casting time of cleric/mage of Azuth? Sure thing.

 

Well, we could invite ourselves into the Kit Revisions forum... as it's revisions, no body said it needed to be one revision package per class, nor even Demivrgvs. mwaha.gif

Of course it could be good if you ask Demivrgvs permission to do this in a PM. Or we could revive this thread... but it's controlled by Demivrgvs.

I've already written to cmorgan who has sent my message to G3 admins, we need approval of Acefaces and Grim. Pfeh. I don't like the idea of hijacking Demi's threads, he's such a good guy. ;d

[Jarno Mikkola]

Just so that you know, I already have the basic code for the whole mod, we now just need the 'class ability' spells(disallow divine spell casting, so the item can then allow them) that are gained on level ups, the abilities.2da table that has the spell names for the kits, and then the items... and when we have the spells and descriptions are easy to code. And if you wish to have different proficiency limits for the different kits...

But my view of the proficiency subject is that we should actually allow every proficiency to the max... Why? Cause the clerics won't be getting the extra attacks per rounds but they can get the damage and thac0 bonuses, and so the player can choose if his char wishes to be Grand Master in one weapon, or be proficient in 5 different weapons... and I am probably going to stick with that opinion.

[yarpen]

But my view of the proficiency subject is that we should actually allow every proficiency to the max... Why? Cause the clerics won't be getting the extra attacks per rounds but they can get the damage and thac0 bonuses, and so the player can choose if his char wishes to be Grand Master in one weapon, or be proficient in 5 different weapons... and I am probably going to stick with that opinion.

Sorry but I cannot agree with you. I know "possibilities are cool" but still I don't see a reason why clerics should be capable of having 5 points - when thieves cannot. Second thing, you're removing the only one fighter's advantage. And at last, PnP sources are quite straight in this matter. No for additional profinencies for clerics. Even Crusader cannot be specialised (but in my current vision he gain fighter's ApR bonuses so additional 1/2 of attack at 7th level and full attack at 14th - but only when using his Spiritual Weapon).

 

Also, Crusader who's wielding his Spiritual Weapon is using it as if he'd have grandmastery.

 

What about Crusader, I'm thinking about your opinion about him using fighter's ThaC0 progress table. With possibility of implementing lack of weapon restrictions he became quite powerfull. Also the compatibility matter. I've came up with alternative advantage:

- Improved ThaC0 progress rate: instead of +2 ThaC0 bonus every 4 levels he gains +1 ThaC0 bonus every 2 levels

This sort of advantage isn't very powerfull (at overall he gains exactly the same ThaC0 score as other priests) but still it grants some faster combat progress and overall awesomness.

 

I'd still like to grant him +1 to ThaC0 per level (to min 0 at 20th lvl so not exactly fighter's table) but connected with possibility of using any weapon + summoning spiritual weapon, it's not so cool.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Sorry but I cannot agree with you. I know "possibilities are cool" but still I don't see a reason why clerics should be capable of having 5 points - when thieves cannot.

Well, first of all, the thieves only get almost half of the thac0 progress than clerics do, and who is to say the Thieves can't get to the Grand Mastery, in a Thief Revisions.

 

Second thing, you're removing the only one fighter's advantage. And at last, PnP sources are quite straight in this matter. No for additional proficiencies for clerics. Even Crusader cannot be specialized (but in my current vision he gain fighter's ApR bonuses so additional 1/2 of attack at 7th level and full attack at 14th - but only when using his Spiritual Weapon).

What comes to the warriors advantage, is they also get the 5/2 attacks per round while the Cleric would get only 1 even if the Cleric has Grand Mastery(with no revised Grand Mastery, where the warriors get +1/2 or +1 attack even more, while the Clerics are left high and dry/without any of the bonuses).

And if it's not obvious, the Clerics also have a much more steeper learning curve, instead of warriors rate which they get 4 at the start and 1 every 3 levels, the clerics get 2 at the start and 1 every 4 levels...

I am not even sure the advantage of 5 profs points to 2 actually really pays off cause the grand mastery requires 7 or 8 points depending what style you choose to use the weapon with, and it's only 1 weapon and style from all of them.

PS: the clerics thac0 penalty is bigger than fighters with no proficiency.

 

Also, Crusader who's wielding his Spiritual Weapon is using it as if he'd have grand mastery.

 

What about Crusader, I'm thinking about your opinion about him using fighter's ThaC0 progress table. With possibility of implementing lack of weapon restrictions he became quite powerful. Also the compatibility matter. I've came up with alternative advantage:

- Improved ThaC0 progress rate: instead of +2 ThaC0 bonus every 3 (levels-1) he gains +1 ThaC0 bonus every 2 levels

This sort of advantage isn't very powerful (at overall he gains exactly the same ThaC0 score as other priests) but still it grants some faster combat progress and overall awesomeness.

 

I'd still like to grant him +1 to ThaC0 per level (to min 0 at 20th lvl so not exactly fighter's table) but connected with possibility of using any weapon + summoning spiritual weapon, it's not so cool.

We could change the Thac0 progress table yeah, but we need to remember that the Clerics Thac0 table is +2 nearly every 3 (current levels -1 level), not +2 at 4 levels... or the game makers would have went with the +1 every 2 levels.

20 20 20 18 18 18 16 16 16 14 14 14 12 12 12 10 10 10 8 8 8 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6...

 

Now, what I would propose is to give the Crusader ~+1 every 5 or so levels on top of the original ~+2 per 3 levels(up to a certain level, and we'll then describe it by saying that the Crusader gets this advantage at level 3, 9, 14, 18, 25). This way, the Crusaders gets constant upgrades that do not in anyway exceed the warriors levels. As the table would look something like this:

20 20 19 17 17 17 15 15 14 12 12 12 10 9 9 7 7 6 4 4 4 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1...

 

The Spiritual weapon should grand the extra half attacks at levels 8 and 15. This way the Crusader is always a level or two behind... in the level progression table. While with the 7 and 14, the Cleric could actually get the attack bonus faster(if the weapon proffs are not counted), cause the XP for fighters(64000) level 7 is higher than clerics(55000) level 7.

[yarpen]

a) Clerics shouldn't be masters of using weapons. It's just because. They are healers, protectors and can defend themselves - but they shouldn't have offensive power. Grandmastery is still grandmastery, I don't see normal cleric who's great master of using mace. Non-roleplaying!

b) What you'd do about paladins and rangers? Clerics can get grandmastery and they cannot? Then what about fighter-paladin-ranger comparison?

b) Clerics have many powerfull spels which allows them to be very serious attackers - holy power, champion's strenght, defensive harmony, holy word. Is it not enough for you?

 

After this week I'm going to have some time to work on F&A. Cool!

[Jarno Mikkola]

a) Clerics shouldn't be masters of using weapons. It's just because. They are healers, protectors and can defend themselves - but they shouldn't have offensive power. Grandmastery is still grandmastery, I don't see normal cleric who's great master of using mace. Non-roleplaying!

So the same priest that can't be Grand Master with one weapon, can archive almost the same in 3 other weapons, that work in very different ways(Spear, Two Handed Sword and Flail)? Let's remember that the difference between the expertise(2 points) and Grand Mastery(5 points) is plus 1 to hit, and plus 2 to damage, the same as the expertise and proficiency, in the original table.

 

b) What you'd do about paladins and rangers? Clerics can get grandmastery and they cannot? Then what about fighter-paladin-ranger comparison?

Well, I don't know, but the Fighters kits are far better than paladins or rangers with the single exception of Ranger/-Cleric Multi/Dual character, because of the druids spells.

(And the one chosen Paladin that can use the Two-handed sword of mage death.)

 

c) Clerics have many powerful spells which allows them to be very serious attackers - holy power, champion's strength, defensive harmony, holy word. Is it not enough for you?

Defensive Harmony is defensive spell, The Holy Power and Champion Strength are strength based spells both, which make the clerics Thac0 bonus be the same as the same level Fighters... but it comes with a drawback, the Strength bonus is just 18/100, which most fighters can exceed by the time the spell becomes available in large quantities, as the spell has limited duration... and the Half-Orc already has greater strength anyways, unless you really cheese the character.

See, why the spells were balanced this way? Clever, ha?

Yes, the clerics have great spells, such as the first level Bless, second level Chant... but all those can be dispelled, and they don't work for days on end. And yes, they also have damage spells, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight and others, but they work on few opponents, not on everyone.