Mod NPC Idea

[Endless Twilight]

My computer is still down, but after thinking and writing more exploratory dialogues, I think I'll scrap the idea of an Aerie/Naomi romance. I don't think I'm a skilled enough writer to do it justice, and as Berelinde said, it ended up being much more about Naomi than Aerie. Oh well.

[ericp07]

My computer is still down, but after thinking and writing more exploratory dialogues, I think I'll scrap the idea of an Aerie/Naomi romance. I don't think I'm a skilled enough writer to do it justice, and as Berelinde said, it ended up being much more about Naomi than Aerie. Oh well.

 

You may find that the idea stays with you. If it's compelling enough that you feel moved to explore it further, you could either work on it on the side by yourself, or ask another modder/writer to collaborate with you. The component could be included in a future mod update, or perhaps by itself as an add-on, I don't know. I know I'm not alone when I say the overall concept is intriguing!

 

Best wishes,

Eric

[Ipsy]

What would you think of a different NPC romance? Just a thought...what about Sarevok? Obviously he values strength and power as both CE and CG. But as you've said, Naomi values strength and power for the more practical application of bringing order and control, so to her, it's a mean rather than an end. In any case, you could probably write some very interesting dialogues between the two.

 

Sorry to hear about your computer, too Hope all your data is OK.

[berelinde]

Endless_Twilight is writing this as a same-sex romance, so that would disqualify Sarevok.

[Endless Twilight]

What would you think of a different NPC romance? Just a thought...what about Sarevok? Obviously he values strength and power as both CE and CG. But as you've said, Naomi values strength and power for the more practical application of bringing order and control, so to her, it's a mean rather than an end. In any case, you could probably write some very interesting dialogues between the two.

 

Sorry to hear about your computer, too Hope all your data is OK.

 

Naomi certainly will have interesting chats with Sarevok in ToB, but for one thing, Naomi is a lesbian, and for another, Naomi will be a bit freaked out by Sarevok being... is he undead? Soulless? Hitching a ride on Charname/Imoen's soul? None of the above?

 

Naomi is a pretty down-to-earth girl in general - she doesn't handle exotic stuff very gracefully. Hell and Charname turning into the Slayer will probably result in her freaking out, for two examples.

[Endless Twilight]

Ouch. Found out that the computer will take a few more days at the shop to fix, and that I'll lose all data on it. Important stuff, I do keep backed up on a separate flash drive, but I hadn't considered Naomi to be something important to back up yet.

 

As it is, in response to the idea of Naomi romancing someone other than Aerie... If Naomi swung that way, I think she would be very happy with Anomen (Sir Anomen might also push her along towards LG), and they should get along very well regardless.

 

However, a couple of friends I talked to happened to save the IM records, including a couple of Aerie/Naomi dialogues, which I will not put into the initial release with the scrapping (or at least back-shelfing) of the Aerie/Naomi romance, if anyone's interested:

 

Aerie: Naomi, what did you mean, the last time we spoke?

Naomi: I told you that I think you find power in happiness, that you cling to the illusion that you are weak.

Aerie: That... that doesn't make much sense.

Naomi: I think it makes a lot of sense, Aerie. For all you've been through, you've survived. You're a beautiful girl and amazingly talented. I wish I was half the person you are.

Aerie: B-but my wings...

Naomi: Are just a symbol. I think you're afraid of letting yourself be happy again, because you might lose that happiness again.

Aerie: But how can I be happy again, trapped here on the ground? E-everyone thinks I'm a freak!

Naomi: I don't know if I can tell you how to be happy, Aerie. I'd like to, but... healing just isn't something you're taught to do on the Moonsea... you're taught to destroy and conquer, not heal.

Aerie: Naomi... did you mean that, when you called me beautiful?

Naomi: ...Yes. You are one of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen, with a spirit I've seldom seen the likes of. Admittedly, that may be because I've spent most of my life near the Moonsea, but even so...

Aerie: Maybe... maybe we can help each other. Y-you're pretty, too...

Naomi: I... well... I think I'd like that.

 

And one of Naomi's sillier moments:

 

Aerie: Naomi, what is that you're working on? Why do you keep looking at me?

Naomi: I'm, well, doing a sketch of you. For a painting.

Aerie: A painting? Of me?

Naomi: Well, a portrait. That does, of course, assume that Hanali Celanil won't strike me down on the spot for daring to try capturing your beauty with hands as clumsy as mine.

Aerie: *Giggles* So that's what that picture you tried to hide from me the other day was! One of your paintings!

Naomi: Ummm... you promise not to slap me? I swear, if anyone asks, I'll say we looted it from an art thief's cache. A thief of really bad art.

Aerie: I loved art when I was a girl, too! My caste in Faeyna-Dail were artists. My father created such amazing things of glass and light, but my mother put her art to more practical use, drawing maps of the lands around Faeyna-Dail for our warriors and scouts.

Naomi: I bet they were actually good at it, though. I bet you would have been, too. Much better than a wannabe artist who brings shame to all wannabe artists.

Aeire: Naomi, I think it's okay if you're a little silly around me.

Naomi: But what will the world think?! A Xvimlar being silly - quick, get the torches and pitchforks! It must be an abomination!

Aerie: Are you blushing?

Naomi: Aieeee! I've been discovered! Run away!

[ericp07]

What would you think of a different NPC romance? Just a thought...what about Sarevok? Obviously he values strength and power as both CE and CG. But as you've said, Naomi values strength and power for the more practical application of bringing order and control, so to her, it's a mean rather than an end. In any case, you could probably write some very interesting dialogues between the two.

 

Sorry to hear about your computer, too Hope all your data is OK.

 

Naomi certainly will have interesting chats with Sarevok in ToB, but for one thing, Naomi is a lesbian, and for another, Naomi will be a bit freaked out by Sarevok being... is he undead? Soulless? Hitching a ride on Charname/Imoen's soul? None of the above?

 

Naomi is a pretty down-to-earth girl in general - she doesn't handle exotic stuff very gracefully. Hell and Charname turning into the Slayer will probably result in her freaking out, for two examples.

 

It's a good point about Sarevok's nature/status. I don't recall it having been spelled out in game terms, but he probably qualifies as having been raised or resurrected, when he gets to live again.

 

Yeah, the Slayer change should give most characters some fierce willies, at the very least!

 

- E

[Endless Twilight]

It's a good point about Sarevok's nature/status. I don't recall it having been spelled out in game terms, but he probably qualifies as having been raised or resurrected, when he gets to live again.

 

Yeah, the Slayer change should give most characters some fierce willies, at the very least!

 

- E

 

ToB will be difficult for Naomi in general - she'll wholeheartedly agree with Minsc that she feels way out of her depth in the events of the ToB story, and I've given a little thought to how Naomi's romance would play out in ToB, which will probably include Naomi trying to terminate the relationship. She'll be feeling very overwhelmed by events, and will probably decide that she doesn't want Charname to be held back their relationship - it will be time for Charname to do what she must and determine the fate of herself and the Realms, not to continue dallying in youthful romance.

 

Expect that to be a theme in Naomi's romance in general, for that matter: Naomi knows going in that Charname is a child of Bhaal, knows a lot about the plot of BG1 thanks to her connections with the Xvim/Bane church, and knows that Charname is destined for great things, be they wonderful or terrible - her intent is to simply follow in Charname's wake and see what can be learned. Naomi would have been comfortable with Aerie because they share a sense of being small fry in a great big world - and in Charname's story. Naomi will not be so comfortable with Charname.

 

I'm giving some thought to writing two distinctly different approaches for Naomi's romance: a softer, down-to-earth approach based on approaching Naomi as an equal, and an approach for a harder, confident and even domineering Charname, be she good or evil. Naomi would actually be more comfortable with the latter approach than the former, and it's possible that some morally dubious actions might be possible, like pressuring her into sex.

 

For now, that's only an idea, as I won't be able to resume writing for a few more days a the least.

[Runescarred]

>debating morality and philosophy

 

Whoa! I like the idea already. One little hint though (I do not seriously think you need it, given how detailed and elaborate your idea is, but still...) - I know you stated that your NPC would be perfect for a good - aligned character to take her along, but please, pretty please: write some 'evil' (and by that I do not mean only Chaotic Evil aaargh death and destruction and burned cookies, mwaahahaha!) replies for the discussions concerning ethics? Pleeeeease? *bats eyelashes* . This is a thing many modules lack: a shame, because it would surely broaden the perspective and add to the player's experience.

 

Good luck with the mod!

[Runescarred]

>debating morality and philosophy

 

Whoa! I like the idea already. One little hint though (I do not seriously think you need it, given how detailed and elaborate your idea is, but still...) - I know you stated that your NPC would be perfect for a good - aligned character to take her along, but please, pretty please: write some 'evil' (and by that I do not mean only Chaotic Evil aaargh death and destruction and burned cookies, mwaahahaha!) replies for the discussions concerning ethics? Pleeeeease? *bats eyelashes* . This is a thing many modules lack: a shame, because it would surely broaden the perspective and add to the player's experience.

 

Good luck with the mod!

[Endless Twilight]

>debating morality and philosophy

 

Whoa! I like the idea already. One little hint though (I do not seriously think you need it, given how detailed and elaborate your idea is, but still...) - I know you stated that your NPC would be perfect for a good - aligned character to take her along, but please, pretty please: write some 'evil' (and by that I do not mean only Chaotic Evil aaargh death and destruction and burned cookies, mwaahahaha!) replies for the discussions concerning ethics? Pleeeeease? *bats eyelashes* . This is a thing many modules lack: a shame, because it would surely broaden the perspective and add to the player's experience.

 

Good luck with the mod!

 

Naomi has done some unambiguously evil things in her life, and even if turned to LG, she'll still favor the ethos of establishing peace and order by beating down everyone who disagrees. Nalia certainly will see Naomi as evil, especially when Naomi supports the Roenalls over Nalia's family and has no problem with slavery, but in the end, your mileage may vary. She starts as Lawful Neutral, remember. The sort of evil she is happy to go along with is of the pragmatic variety - she has nothing but contempt for the Chaotic Evil type. Conquer and rule by fear with an iron fist, certainly. Torture people because you can? That's just excessive.

[berelinde]

I think Runescarred was asking you to include PC replies for a CE protagonist.

 

A lot of the time, modders do not take "extreme" alignments into consideration, at one end of the spectrum or the other. There aren't any "I'm evil! MWAHAHAHAHahahahaha!" PC replies. The reason for this is that most modders write a romance track using a relatively simple dialogue tree formula.

 

NPC: Says something.

PC reply 1: Advances the romance

PC reply 2: Advances the romance, worded slightly differently

PC reply 3: Ends the romance

 

It isn't particularly tailored to PC alignment, race, class, or personality. There is very little room for the PC to display any individuality. While this method works, it isn't too satisfying for the player, since he or she can go through the whole mod hitting 1 without even reading the dialogue. Might as well only provide one PC reply option and be done with it.

 

Other mods choose "voices" for the PC. In one of the mods I'm working on, I used the Bennet sisters in Pride and Prejudice as a model:

PC reply 1 (Lydia/Kitty): narcissistic, attempt to turn the conversation toward the PC

PC reply 2 (Jane): all compassion

PC reply 3 (Elisabeth): practical, full of advice

PC reply 4 (Mary): inappropriate, sometimes wildly so

PC reply 5: exit the dialogue

 

This method still doesn't take extremes of alignment into consideration, but at least it gives the PC a way to show some personality.

 

Probably the ideal way would be to use the "voice" method and add PC reply options tailored toward specific alignments/races/classes where appropriate. But this would involve a lot of work. Maybe too much.

[Endless Twilight]

My thoughts have been to include three main approaches to the romance: a soft, understanding approach, a confident, flirty approach, and an aggressive, domineering style.

 

I don't think I'll include replies for a CE Charname because I can't see Naomi being attracted to a CE individual. Or Chaotic anything, for that matter. She's a scrupulously and rigidly Lawful individual, and I can't see her developing a relationship with someone with no regard for laws, ethics (different from morals, understand), or codes of behavior.

 

Races: I am intending to have a dialogue about race, Charname's and Naomi's, where Naomi will confirm her interest in a half-orc or dwarf Charname, and Naomi will talk a bit about being a half-elf born of half-elves - she sees herself as a separate breed altogether from humans and elves.

 

Classes: I'm strongly considering having a class-based dialogue as well, where Charname can talk about being a fighter, mage, or whatever. Interesting possibilities for a cleric Charname.

[ericp07]

I think Runescarred was asking you to include PC replies for a CE protagonist.

 

A lot of the time, modders do not take "extreme" alignments into consideration, at one end of the spectrum or the other. There aren't any "I'm evil! MWAHAHAHAHahahahaha!" PC replies. The reason for this is that most modders write a romance track using a relatively simple dialogue tree formula.

 

NPC: Says something.

PC reply 1: Advances the romance

PC reply 2: Advances the romance, worded slightly differently

PC reply 3: Ends the romance

 

It isn't particularly tailored to PC alignment, race, class, or personality. There is very little room for the PC to display any individuality. While this method works, it isn't too satisfying for the player, since he or she can go through the whole mod hitting 1 without even reading the dialogue. Might as well only provide one PC reply option and be done with it.

 

Other mods choose "voices" for the PC. In one of the mods I'm working on, I used the Bennet sisters in Pride and Prejudice as a model:

PC reply 1 (Lydia/Kitty): narcissistic, attempt to turn the conversation toward the PC

PC reply 2 (Jane): all compassion

PC reply 3 (Elisabeth): practical, full of advice

PC reply 4 (Mary): inappropriate, sometimes wildly so

PC reply 5: exit the dialogue

 

This method still doesn't take extremes of alignment into consideration, but at least it gives the PC a way to show some personality.

 

Probably the ideal way would be to use the "voice" method and add PC reply options tailored toward specific alignments/races/classes where appropriate. But this would involve a lot of work. Maybe too much.

 

That's a wonderful approach, and wouldn't be too much work if just a few different voices are used for replies/comments that drive or terminate the romance (or any conversation track, for that matter). This is exactly the kind of advice/tip we green modders need, yet seldom find as we search for ways to write decent and interesting dialogue

 

Alignment-oriented talks are usually present in PnP games, so it makes perfect sense to include that in character conversations in-game. In their lives, characters don't think of it as "alignment" so much as "worldview," so creativity is highly encouraged in description, debate, etc. while characters talk.

 

So, I guess I'm saying that I strongly support this idea

Happy modding,

Eric

[Endless Twilight]

And this sort of thing is why I was iffy about writing Naomi as a romance to begin with - very daunting, and a huge amount of work for a beginning modder. My thoughts for how to generally do each dialogue were like this:

 

PC Reply 1 (Soft): Tries to bring the conversation to a level comfortable for Naomi, trying to make her feel safe and comfortable talking to Charname. Generally oriented towards a good Charname.

PC Reply 2 (Flirty): Teasing, but affectionately so - might include separate versions for a more aggressively flirtatious Charname and one who wants to tease Naomi out of her shell.

PC Reply 3 (Domineering): Aggressively establishes that Charname is Naomi's superior, and that Naomi should bow to Charname as the higher position in the hierarchy. Generally oriented towards an evil Charname.

PC Reply 4: Exit conversation.