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IR Megamod balance issues


Tonton Fred

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Hi,

 

I am trying to gauge the impact of various mod that add items in a megamod (BWP) install that includes IR. There are various kind of potential issues, and I have tried to break them down by type :

 

  1. Item availability
    • Lost items (component 0) :This component adds Gem Bags, Potion Cases, Scroll Cases, Ammo Belts, Bag of Holding, Spear +2, Scimitar +1, Flail +1, Flail +2, Katana (unbreakable), Katana +1, Katana +2, Wakazishi +1, Ninja-To (unbreakable), Ninja-To +1, Boomerang Dagger +2, Poison Throwing Daggers, Sunstone Bullets, Bracers AC5, and Bracers AC4 to a number of adversaries (mostly in the first half of the game) and containers in areas. There are also a couple of items not mentioned that should make some late fights more interesting - nothing overpowered though. The vanilla Katana and Ninja-To will not break and are available so early that starting characters out with those proficiencies are now feasable. Ammo stacks are increased to 50, including Throwing Axes (standard only), Darts, and Throwing Daggers, both garden-variety and poisoned.
    • BGT Tweaks (21) : Exotic weapons for Taerom: Taerom has imported some Katanas, Wazikashis, and Ninja-Tos for the oriental sword-wielding enthusiasts.
    • BG2 Tweaks (1090) : Exotic Items Pack.
      This component adds a handful of weapons and items available in Baldur's Gate II and scatters them throughout stores, creatures, and containers in the Baldur's Gate portion of the game. Items include katanas, wakizashis, scimitars, ninja-tos, bags/quivers of plenty, ioun stones, and a handful of spell scrolls. However, please note that the items have been placed with an eye towards balance and likelihood that they would be on the Sword Coast at all. The exceptions are scimitars, which are definitely less exotic than the other items and hence more plentiful.
      This component also fixes a known bug in the game, in that the merchant at Gullykin and the Helm temple in Nashkel shared the same store file.
    • Underrepresented Items (Weimer): This mod adds items to Baldur's Gate 2. The items come from Icewind Dale 2. Only certain kinds of items were chosen. Items were selected to flesh out smaller weapon families.

[*]Unique item power balance

  • Item Upgrade (Weimer) : The Item Upgrade Mod Pack allows Cromwell and Cespenar to upgrade more
    items for you. Half of them are conveniences, the other half try to prop up weapon categories that are "weak" by comparison (e.g., maces and clubs).
  • Haer'Dalis' Swords : You can upgrade Haer'Dalis' swords in the Underdark.
  • MTS crappack (8) : All-Blunt Dwarven Thrower

[*]Others

  • aTweaks (110) : Magical arrows and bolts deal bonus damage equal to their enchantment level
  • True Grandmastery (either from MixMod, BG2Tweaks, Baldurdash...). I know this is technically compatible, but how do you conceptually take this into account ; will TGM overpower the party, since few enemies in-game possess it ?

 

Most of these mods are installed on the standard setting of the BWP. I know IR is installed very early in the BWP, but how would it deal with the amount +1/+2 weapons being dumped by some of these components in the game ? I was under the impression that IR's focus was only on the vanilla items, so would all these weapons get installed with no changes ?

 

Cheers,

Fred

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90% of item packs (in your case, Underrepresented items, Item Upgrade, and possibly that Haer Dalis mod) are horribly unbalanced for a vanilla game, and even more so with IR.

 

Lost items adds some probably-too-powerful items (Boomerang Dagger, AC 4 bracers), so I'd skip that, too.

 

BGTTweaks adds oriental swords like BG2Tweaks but makes them easier to find, which is definitively a good thing (otherwise, proficiency in Katana would be even more useless than proficiency in Club).

 

BG2Tweaks adds convenience items, that don't alter the balance but make it less annoying to play.

 

That component from MTS Crappacck is almost a bugfix, except you can't download it because its host has disappeared from the internet two months ago.

 

aTweaks equally buffs enemy archers and party archers, so it's probably OK (even then, a +1 or +2 to damage isn't that significant).

 

TGM buffs the party; however, getting from 2* to 5* is a large investment (both class-wise and level-wise), so it makes sense for a large investment to give out a corresponding large payout.

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Ohh, very interesting topic. :)

 

Lost items

I don't see much problems here though I haven't tried the mod myself thus I'm not sure. Anyway:

* Bracers of AC 4 are not balanced for BG1, because it's like granting mages a light armor with +4 enchantment and no spell failure (pratically it's a Shadow Armor equipped on a much more convenient slot and usable even by classes who can't wear armors). It's not game-breaking, but it surely is unbalanced.

* Boomerang Dagger +2 is too powerful for BG1, though not extremely OP.

 

BGT and BG2 Tweaks

I can only judge things you report because I don't blay BGT:

* IR's Ioun Stones are quite powerful for BG1, but not OP. In terms of effectiveness they are balanced, but their power lvl match those of BG1 magical helmets, thus the end result is that classes who couldn't use helmets as "class disadvantage" are not disadvantaged anymore.

 

This component also fixes a known bug in the game, in that the merchant at Gullykin and the Helm temple in Nashkel shared the same store file.
I'm almost sure this was addressed by Ardanis while working on his component to revise stores and items re-allocation. Actually, I think most of these components will be "redundant" as soon as Ardanis work will be released.

 

Underrepresented Items

This is a really outdated mod imo, and conceptually it's really not compatible with IR, as it adds an absurd amount of overpowered and silly +4 and +5 items. Last but not least, with IR installed there isn't an "underrepresent" item type (if there is let me know), as I've worked to make sure each weapon/armor type has plenty of specimens and that they are scattered in the entire game with an eye towards balance too.

 

Item Upgrade

Many of its items are outstandingly overpowered for IR's standards, but I know many players like this kind of things and this mod in particular. Note that IU already offer improved Haer Dalis Swords, thus I don't know you should install the other mod.

 

aTweaks

I thought aVENGER's added a check to his component, because such tweak is already implemented by IR and thus installing it after IR is redundant.

 

True Grandmastery

I consider TGM slightly overpowered, and I actually provide players another alternative here, which is the one that will ship with KR V1 fighter classes as soon as I manage to finish IR V3.

 

Various Comments

Most of these mods are installed on the standard setting of the BWP. I know IR is installed very early in the BWP, but how would it deal with the amount +1/+2 weapons being dumped by some of these components in the game ?
I'd say BGT Tweaks and BG2 Tweaks components are fine, but I'd personally avoid all the others when playing with IR. And as I said, Ardanis work for IR V3 may actually make them redundant too.

 

I was under the impression that IR's focus was only on the vanilla items, so would all these weapons get installed with no changes ?
Non-unique items are affected by IR's components (e.g. stats are patched to match IR's ones).

 

Unique items are not affected by IR, though I'm making a couple of exceptions (e.g. Ascension's improved version of Sarevok's Sword of Chaos)

 

 

EDIT: the bigg preceeded me, and we more or less say the same :)

90% of item packs (in your case, Underrepresented items, Item Upgrade, and possibly that Haer Dalis mod) are horribly unbalanced for a vanilla game, and even more so with IR.
I second this.
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Thanks guys ! Detailed and precise info as always !

 

That component from MTS Crappacck is almost a bugfix, except you can't download it because its host has disappeared from the internet two months ago.

 

Eh ? I have it on my computer already, but this page seems to be active ?

 

aTweaks

I thought aVENGER's added a check to his component, because such tweak is already implemented by IR and thus installing it after IR is redundant.

 

You're right, there's a check in the TP2, it gets skipped if IR is detected.

 

I'd say BGT Tweaks and BG2 Tweaks components are fine, but I'd personally avoid all the others when playing with IR. And as I said, Ardanis work for IR V3 may actually make them redundant too.
I'm almost sure this was addressed by Ardanis while working on his component to revise stores and items re-allocation. Actually, I think most of these components will be "redundant" as soon as Ardanis work will be released.

 

So, the final word is "wait for V3" then ? :)

 

Cheers,

Fred

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I'm almost sure this was addressed by Ardanis while working on his component to revise stores and items re-allocation. Actually, I think most of these components will be "redundant" as soon as Ardanis work will be released.
I found a shared store in BG2, but that' already fixed by Fixpack. Also, I do not touch yet BG1 part, because it was over 4 years since I've played it last. I do intend to replay it in moderately near future, though.
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I found a shared store in BG2, but that' already fixed by Fixpack. Also, I do not touch yet BG1 part, because it was over 4 years since I've played it last. I do intend to replay it in moderately near future, though.
There are several shared stores in BG1 as I recall. They're fixed by various components, such as Tweaks, Unique Containers and the BG1 Fixpack if you want to try the beta (is only BG1 though, not Tutu, BGT etc.).

 

And yes, Lost Items is unbalanced. Unique Containers fixes some of the more glaring issues, though not all of them. But y'know, I don't think it's Item Revisions' place to fix issues with all the overpowered megamod junk, unless it's aiming to go beyond vanilla and replace/revise the likes of BP Balancer, etc.

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And yes, Lost Items is unbalanced. Unique Containers fixes some of the more glaring issues, though not all of them. But y'know, I don't think it's Item Revisions' place to fix issues with all the overpowered megamod junk, unless it's aiming to go beyond vanilla and replace/revise the likes of BP Balancer, etc.
I agree, and I've no intention of working on that. As I said, not installing mods such as Lost Items when playing with IR is the recommended solution.
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