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Indeed,that's why I specified the author was not a native speaker;and as I said,sometimes I can overlook certain things that I'm generally picky on,if the idea behind a mod is peculiar,as in this case (at least,based on my taste,of course).


Regarding roleplay,I did say it's more combat oriented;since she said she likes combat,I thought she might like the module.


Honestly Serene wouldn't be my first choice as well,but seeing as how many interesting project have been dropped,this is one of the latest,still decent module that came out,so I felt I might as well recommend it (since it has romance,as well,which she seeked for) :undecided:


But indeed,do start with Dark Waters,please,once you finish the romance pack :hm:

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In regards of module and suggestions,indeed she is free to try out;but seeing as how there's a whole bunch of custom modules out there,and many are really sloppy ones,it's not so bad to ask for a general advice...then she can of course try things out by herself :undecided:

Yes, of course, but if you follow the other thread, questions keep recurring and there is a whole lot of asking and very little trying, it seems. Frankly, it's getting a little wearisome.




And indeed,I tried to make clear that,aside from the initial situation,all the sexual events are pretty much skippable and there are many ways to solve things out;AdwR is based on a peculiar ambient and concept though,so if she can't bear with the general mood of the mod,nobody can force her to....

Nobody has to like anything, tastes differ after all. I'd be perfectly fine if somebody said they didn't like AdwR because they thought the obligatory content was shite. Because they don't want to play as a woman, hate thieves or prefer wielding light sabres or whatever. But I don't know what to make of somebody skipping the whole thing because of an idea they have about the optional content. You know, I recommended AdwR to her because I firmly believe this mod offers everything she's looking for: Interesting, chatty NPCs who want to befriend and romance the PC, an exciting plot with lots of twist, diversified sidequests, many hours of gameplay and high replayability. I can't think of any other games she hasn't played that offer all that. Most games are without a party, focus on combat and/or have very little to no banter at all, and if they do, there are no romances to speak of...

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Don't get me wrong,I had an epiphany after playing AdwR the first time as well,seeing as how I was against all the rape idea at the time,too;I think I replayed it countless times so far and indeed I do believe is one of the best example of rpg modules for NwN1 out there,not to mention written by a woman,which in this case,I consider a bonus (since we talk about romance options and whatnot).


Still,even if the sexual encounters and/or situations can be avoided,you can't deny the fact that AdwR depicts a certain kind of world:medieval,violent,crude,where the woman is seen as a sexual object mostly ,or,worst,as garbage and doesn't exactly have the freedom and respect she has in a normal D&D setting like the Forgotten Realms that NwN made us accustomed to.The ambients are generally gloom too,with the few exceptions of summer island (or whatever it's called the island with Hyath temple) and the forest;long story short,it's an harsh world,and it's in part what makes the story of the princess so appalling,since she has to strive to be recognized (and survive) in such world,after everything has been taken from her :hm:


Now,in MY perspective,those themse (even the most crude ones) are all meaningful adds to an already immersive,non-linear and engaging plot,rich,as you said,of npc interactions and very complex relationships;they serve the scope of showing you all the sides of that complex world,so even experiencing gore,sexual harassment and all those crude aspects,become part of the experience,so I don't consider them unecessary.Plus,as you stated,much of the most crude content is avoidable.


Still,someone might still feel offended by the general idea of the mod,and Valine herself warns countless times about it;it all goes with taste and sensibility,really.


Now,would I still recommend AdwR to everyone?Hell yes,till I have breath in my lungs probably *laughs*

But do I expect everyone I recommend it to appreciate it or even understand it?Sadly,no,but in the end,it's not my loss,it's theirs,and I'm fine with people not liking the mod as long as they don't cover it with slander :)


I think this may apply to many things;in the end,just play what you like,don't slander what you don't like much and be at peace :undecided:

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Now,would I still recommend AdwR to everyone?Hell yes,till I have breath in my lungs probably *laughs*

But do I expect everyone I recommend it to appreciate it or even understand it?Sadly,no,but in the end,it's not my loss,it's theirs,and I'm fine with people not liking the mod as long as they don't cover it with slander :hm:


I agree AdwR is awesome! It is my second fav NWN mod next to Sanctum of the Archmage. But different people have different tastes and I say to those who think it is not of your tastes that almost all the naughty bits are entirely optional. In fact I usually opt out of them being more of an assassin type chic who kills whoever gets in her way. :undecided: Rogues are awesome and this just further proves it!


Also about serene it has ridiculously hard combat and I agree with berelinde that it doesn't have much role play wise but otherwise is good from what I remember of it.


Dark Waters is also freaking sweet. Probably my fav NWN2 mod The characters are amazing and the storyline is original yet not totally out there so you feel left in the dark.


Sorry for my ramblings just putting in my two cents as they say. I also want to thank you all for bringing these new mods to my attention. :)

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Ok, sorry for multi-posting, but I've tried twice to put everything in a single post and I quickly got totally confused, so I am answering in more than one post, in order to keep the answers a bit more tidy.


@ Deedlit:

In NWN OC there were my PC and Tomy. I was glad to see Tomy when I arrived in Waterdeep (by the way, in the Italian version, the geographic names have been translated. Awful!), but I got a bit sad when I understood I can't ask him to join for a while. Uff, how am I supposed to open lock and disarm traps? Uff!


Well, I do see my PC in her future life... Being al elf she doesn't have so much urgency to put up a house, because she is supposed to live for centuries. I see her married, but without any children. And for "married" I mean married with probably a guy in her party... and they are both supposed to continue in going around the world having adventures! So... no, I can't see a family project for her... too odd! :-D


About Dark Water saga: you say dialogues have voices... but please, tell me, are dialogues also WRITTEN? Because I think I could have problems in understanding just the talk... :-s


Legacy of the Dragons: Are you saying I am going to meet Drizzt again? :-)

Can you also add an EXTREMELY INDICATIVE duration of this modules? Just to start writing an order to play them. Of course, I have to wait for my gpu to come back, but I hope in 7-15days that would be fixed!


Concluding... Deedlit, can I ask you where are you from? I'm curious! :-)

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@Berelinde&Deedlit: this "Serene" module... the dialogues have no choices due to the translation? I mean, in the original language, are dialogues more complex?


@Evaine: same 2 answers of my previous post. 1) too much sex all around, so if I can skip useless sex in a game, I am happy with that. 2) my computer is broken and I have few time, these imply that I can only run NWN first now, and that it takes longer for me to finish a game.


@Deedlit (again :-P ): I really have appreciated A LOT all your suggestions. You have spent a lot of time for searching links and writing opinions. Really, THANKS. And probably the module you are speaking of is wonderfully made (I have no doubt about that). It is just that there are some things that I skip. As I don't like splatter movie and there's no way I would be going to the cinema to see one, I don't want to make my character in an environment like that.

Also because I am usually very much IN my character and I tend to identify myself with her. So, rape, violence and harassment? No, thanks. I like to sleep at night, not to wake up screaming due to nightmares! :-D


But guys, seriously... you speak too much and in the wrong time, each morning I wake up and see tons of posts I have to reply to! :-D It's wearying! :-P

[i'm joking, I love your posts!]

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Serene is only available in English. It is my understanding that tsongo designed the mod this way with the intention of not allowing the story to drift off course with tangential dialogue. The mod is about the story being told, not about presenting the player with an opportunity to explore and interact with the world. If you like the story and "your" part in it, you might enjoy the mod. I never submitted a formal review for the mod because I was unable to complete it. Poor dialogue quality + lack of player choices + trite plot = I'd rather play H&C again.


Heh. I do that too, read the forums first thing in the morning, befoe I'm fully awake. Bad idea. :undecided:

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@ Berelinde: ok, I've understood... not my kind of module from what I read. Thank you! By the way, I am happy to know I am not the only crazy being who reads the forum early in the morning :-P


@ Evaine: about the games, the fact I had not written a full list of my choices doesn't mean I am not going to try those games. It is just that I am still "writing" that list! Today I spoke with the shop... I have to bring my gpu back and they are going to give me a new one... in up to 40 days. WHAT??? I am so angry!!! I hope they would have one already in a near shop, so I just have to wait few days.


About my opinion on useless sex. Well, the problem is just one: English. Do you want a complete thesis about what I can't suffer about this overfilling with sex? I can speak for hours or write for pages. Just let me do that in my language. Since I have to write in a language that is not mine, this takes me a lot of time that simply I don't have. I just can give you a summary.


1) I don't think I would like the crudeness of the setting, as you called it.

2) differently from you, I am just annoyed with the idea that everything, just for marketing reason, must be filled with sex, so I boycott many products (if you want a sort of list, I could give you that via PM) because being a female with a brain, I can't suffer to contribute in spreading around the "woman=sex object" idea that many advertising companies tend to give. Am I wrong for this? I don't think. I hope you would never have to speak to a male who is pretending you are stupid just because you are a beautiful woman. Or that all you can be in life is staying at home feeding children because women are stupid and this is the best they can achieve in life.

I don't like this thing so I do what I can to change it. Maybe my contribute is not much, but it's the best I can do. So I don't think I'll go against my principles just to try a module that doesn't appeal at all to me.


Hope you are now satisfied with my answer, because if you want the longer version, I hope you have no problem in speaking Italian.

By the way, my opinions are my opinions. If I say "I don't think I would like this module for the sexual related setting" I don't think I have to justify myself. So I don't need to be taken into a trial and to bring proof that this is a well developed opinion and not a random thought in my head. Because even if it was a random thought, since I don't force anyone in not playing that module, I can do whatever I want based on my opinion!



Sorry to the other users or this forum for the quarrelling.

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Today I feel a bit like the preaching sort,so indulge me for a bit,if you please.


I will digress a little and talk about an argument I love,just to make my point easier to understand: I'll talk about Shakespeare.


Back when Shakespeare wrote all his wonderful pieces (around 1600ish),the whole mass of critiques were convinced that he was just an idiot and an ignorant,without the basic knowledge of how to write a comedy or a tragedy proper,and that many of the things he put in his works were "useless" or inappropriate,just because he didn't write according to the rules and canons that,at the time,were considered sacred to write "a good piece";this lasted for a couple of centuries,when finally the romantic critiques took a stand and defended the dignity of each work as a standalone,i.e. each work has its own rules and system,and nobody except the author can preach against that.


Now,aside from all the technical and philosophical dissertations and contestations one can think about this,I humbly think they were right in the core idea: each work has to be read as a stand alone system of rules,and it has to be "decoded" (=read,viewed,pondered,or whatever) with the proper key,which is never an universal one or a "personal" one,it's the one the author or the opera itself suggests.


This is the way that I,again,humbly think AdwR should be seen (and,of course,the core reasonement applies to many other things): there is sex,there is violence,there is crudeness.Is it useless or gratuite?Hell no,it has context and reason to be there,very soundly explained by the setting and all,and in no way it is an expression of that sex-to-sell business you hate so much.


I can very well understand an argumentation that goes like "I don't like sex situations and even the mere thought that there MIGHT be one,discourages me from playing this thing" and the likes,it's personal tastes,which are sacred for everyone;I really CAN'T understand and CAN'T accept an argumentation that goes like "if this game shows sex and nudity,they are bound to be useless and I don't play it on principle",because not only in THIS case it's NOT true,but as I already stated,there is a woman behind the module and the fact that she is explicit about those themes,or that she presents you with those situations,doesn't mean she takes things lightly or that she approves those,they are just functional and part of the world she's trying to depict,much like you can't write a detective story withouth a detective and a murder....it's two faces of the same medal.


Now,this is NOT to say that you have to play it or like it by force,or see it as I see it,by all means NO;but please,refrain to say that the sex themes and the harassament and whatnot are useless in THAT mod,or even that it promotes certain ideas of sex,just because you are against certain things for your reasons.


I think this is basically what Evanine was displeased about;I don't also think he was attacking your opinions or your ideas,actually,he was just trying to make a point,as I am trying,too.


Always remember we are talking in a language that is not ours,as well (I am italian,by the way,heh);misunderstandings are already oh so common between same language speakers,they are quite unavoidable between people of different languages,or at least this is my belief.You would be surprised how many time I was enraged because I read one thing for another in english;in time,you learn to read twice and thrice,if needed (and still there's misunderstanding *laughs*).


Now,to return in topic:


I can't give you an exact time evaluation,because everyone has different paces at which he/she plays;I myself am a slow player,I do things slowly and try to explore everything obsessively,so my playthrough of a singel module may take days or weeks.Legacy anyway is not that complicated and will take from a bunch of hours to a couple of days,maybe;Dark waters it's a total of three mod and it has a lot of things to do,so it may take longer,a week or more,but then again really depends on your speed.And yes,everything is written,too,just as in NwN2 OC,you have it both :)


Regarding Serene,again I suggested it because the story was still nice,despite the maimed writing,and because it was one of the latest that came out with a romance of sorts;the other interesting projects I would've recommended more warmly have been dropped or put on hold,so...

The only interesting thing I see for now,aside the Sand romance (no please,don't drop things just because I am being annoying...no,put that knife down,no...NOO!!),in regards of NwN2 it's planescape saga,but I didn't recommend it because: 1)I still didn't play it,I am just following the project since...uh...years now? :hm: 2) is not yet entirely translated (I think currently only a couple o chapters are),so unless you know german very well,which is not my case... :undecided:


And by the way,you can actually have some (but not all at the same time) of the old members from NwN1,like Tomi,join you for a while in the first part of HotU;you just have to rescue them in the dungeon first,and ask them to come along instead of sending them back :D



Anyway,life is too short to hold a grudge on a game discussion;let's all cool down and enjoy our favorites games in good fun,cheers :D

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Deedlit, thanks for your answer about module durations, you have been very kind.

For what concerns the other discussion, I think I am writing to you a PM. At least I can spend a quarter of the time!

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Guest Lilyana
I haven't understood that the sex-solving way was optional. From what I had understood, there were a lot of situations where that was, if not the only, the basic way of solving things. However, to say the truth, in my opinion sex is a bit too... how can I say? Everywhere?


I think I understand what you mean.


I've got nothing against sex. I'm an atheist, I'm open-minded with different sexual orientations, I think sex is a normal and healthy part of adult life. Still, I also get the feeling the wold is "over-sexualized". It feels like sex is everywhere. I can understand why a teenager with raging hormones and no regular sex life gets obsessive about sex, but to me it feels like an adult being the same is not... healthy and normal anymore. Don't kill me, that's just how I personally feel! :undecided: I personally see sex as part of a relationship so it doesn't feel "normal" to me to see sexualization everywhere. It feels out-of-place. I understand if other people feel differently and that's okay, but that's how it goes for me.


Getting back on topic, I must be the only person in the world who got addicted to the NWN1 OC. :hm: I ignored the story completely and just enjoying having a hack and slash adventure in a fantasy land. And I also really liked Linu! I tagged her along just to hear more of her stories, even though I was also playing a cleric.


Has anyone played Darkness Over Daggerford? I remember when this came out and everyone was raving about it. If anyone doesn't know, this is a module that was supposed to be one of those premium modules you had to pay for, but Atari axed the project before it got finished. The team went on to release it for free, so it's basically a free but professionally made mod for NWN. I hear it's quite long, too. I was thinking of trying it out one of these days.

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Thank you very much for your post. Since my English is not so good, maybe I am unable to make people understand my point, so thank you very much for being able to express the same opinion with better words!


About NWN OC I think the problem is just that: usually, an RPG fan searches for RP, not for H&S adventure type. So, since in my opinion the "too much combats, too many enemies to kill without any apparent reason except that of making the game longer" is the big fault of the OC, if you like that kind of game (ie: those where you practically go around and kill everything), it is quite obvious you found the OC interesting.

But for those who don't like combats and that are more interested in RP, it was just a waste of time. I think it is just a question of name: NWN OC is a sort of H&S and not an RPG. This mean that it is a game addressed to a different public. Just that, but of course, if you call it RPG and it isn't, the RPG fans will be unsatisfied by the game!


I'd never hear of Darkness Over Daggerford... being it free, where can we find it? Could you provide a link, please?

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FWIW, I tried ADwR and did not enjoy it. If you've played any of my BG2 mods or RE submissions, you'll realize that I don't have a problem with sex in video games. Which is putting it mildly. The point is, I like it when there's more to the NPC's personality than a collection of sexual preferences. Heck, even with the RE submissions with a total run time of 5 minutes or less, I made sure that the encounter involved at least some character development. When I played ADwR, the only NPC that elicited any kind of emotion from me was the widower who kills himself because he knows that he'll never be able to raise enough money to hire the PC's services again. Most of the NPCs you met seemed to be "Hello, this is Mr Generic Not-A-Nice-Person, please disrobe and service him." It seems like everyone you meet is some kind of cookie-cutter "bad boy" without a lot of thought invested in developing the character further. Valine herself stated the the mod came to be because her boyfriend was out of town for a week and she got bored. So in this case, it isn't the amount of sex present in the mod that bothers me, or even the gratuitous nature of it. Yay, gratuitous sex! It's the impression I got from it that sex is really all there is.

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Guest Lilyana
About NWN OC I think the problem is just that: usually, an RPG fan searches for RP, not for H&S adventure type. So, since in my opinion the "too much combats, too many enemies to kill without any apparent reason except that of making the game longer" is the big fault of the OC, if you like that kind of game (ie: those where you practically go around and kill everything), it is quite obvious you found the OC interesting.


I usually prefer tactical RPGs over action ones, but I like playing a variety of games. I think I'm lucky for enjoying very different kinds of RPGs! :laugh: I originally started playing RPGs after I read The Lord of the Rings and wanted to go on adventures on my own, and NWN kind of scratched that itch. I just enjoyed exploring the world.


I'd never hear of Darkness Over Daggerford... being it free, where can we find it? Could you provide a link, please?


It's been a long time since I read about it, but I'm sure you can find if with Google. Sorry I can't help you more.


I also don't like characters who seem to be nothing but collections of different romance tropes (the "bad boy" being the least favorite of mine). Women do quite a bit of sexualization with characters as well, and while I don't have a problem with it per se, it's not my thing. I just don't find it interesting. I've become tired of Japanese RPGs partly because I've started feeling like the characters are designed by a committee, and creativity no longer has any part of the process. I'm pretty sure many writers don't like or understand the characters they are writing anymore. They just know the audience happens to like moe/yaoi/whatever at the moment, so that's what they write.


And I loved how much sex the Gavin mod had. :laugh: But I'd never loved the mod if that was all there was to it. I loved Gavin because he had character, warts and all. :blush:

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