About rogue saving throws

[Silverstar]

Well, first I want to tell you that I really love all the changes this wonderful mod brings to the game, new spell effects/rules are much cooler, fun, and nice diversion to original's all boring either 'too weak to be of use'/'or too good you need it' approach to some spells. I especially love the new saving throw rules, that high lvl spells are harder to resist (I still don't have Wail of the Banshee spell and I really want to use it to a fantastic effect :evil grin:) and most evocation spells require a save vs breath weapon, which makes sense as per the saving throw descriptions.

 

What I don't like is that, rogue characters (bard/thief) are seriously nerfed by this, they have terrible saving throw vs breath weapon in the original rules, for some reason, and I don't even think it makes sense. Rogues are supposed to be naturally nimble, agile, deft and lucky (regardless of their DEX scores) but as it is now, it is almost a guaranteed failure for even a high lvl rogue to fail a saving throw vs, say, a high lvl blast spell such as delayed blast fireball, they clumsily take the brunt of the blast and suffer most damage, where as your fighters, even mages have a relatively easier time to avoid the most of the blasts in higher lvls.

 

Now, clerics are blessed by their gods to have good vitality and health, clearly from their superiour save vs death. Fighters start of as somewhat weak in all saves but as they gain xp they have all around best saving throws. Mages are foremost and only dedicated spell casters so they have better chance to resist spells and magical items like wands/rods, while their constant studying leaves them with bad save vs death and disease and like. These all make sense. However I can not justify the reason why rogues are so terrible at save vs breath category.

 

So I editted my rogue saving throws file in my override, that they have superiour save vs breath weapon, much like a mage's save vs spell category, starting at 12 at lvl 1. I am really pleased that my bard and thief characters are good at save vs breath now, but since I can't edit all CRE files in the game, all thief/bard enemies in the game still have crappy save vs breath, and this makes me feel like..cheating because my party has an advantage over the rest of the game world.

 

Anyway, I would reccomend an alternative component in this mod to alter the rogue saving throws, so they are good at avoiding blasts and harmful effects tossed in their way. (to quote our favourite Bounty Huner Yoshimo:'What do you need? I am skilled in avoidance!' Well he certainly is in my game anyway) What's more, if also said component could patch all game CRE files with thief/bard listed as class to have the new save vs breath rules, that would be my dream. I don't think this would harm the game. Rogue characters are not total powerhouses anyway so a little buffing would not cause BG2 to be unbalanced.

 

Sorry about my ranting but I just needed to share my idea. Thank you once again for such a wonderful, wonderful mod!

[Demivrgvs]

First of all sorry for taking so long to replay, I wanted to reply soon after reading it but then I almost forgot. I usually don't ignore post like that.

 

Long story short, I completely agree with you.

 

As a matter of fact I played the game tweaking rogue's saves just like you, to make them have great 'saves vs breath'. This is something I'm surely going to include within Kit Revisions, and yes, a component to patch every thief character would be great, I'll see if I can do something about that.

 

On a side note, if you're also using Item Revisions you can easily notice that many thief/ranger-oriented items improves saves vs breath. That may helps a little.

[Silverstar]

No trouble, it's not like I was starting to feel ignored and unliked here he he he Just joking.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me, and I would love to see a mod or component to 'fix' all the rogues in the game world. Umm I totally missed the item revisions mod, and now I am well in the middle of the game so installing it right now can cause some troubles, no? (taps the wood)

[Demivrgvs]

Umm I totally missed the item revisions mod, and now I am well in the middle of the game so installing it right now can cause some troubles, no? (taps the wood)

It depends on your install order. Installing IR over an ongoing game doesn't cause any issue per se, and you can use saved games without issues, but you may have mods that requires IR to be installed first. For example SCS patches all weapons in order to let mages always know the enchantment lvl of your weapons, and installing IR after SCS removes such patch.

[Guest Guest_phordicus_*]

early editions

 

DEX gave a bonus to breath saving throws, basically equivalent to the AC modifier

INT gave a bonus to disbelieve illusion spells

WIS gave a bonus to resist enchantment spells

 

my own personal mods are essentially a junk drawer of minor changes such as these. rather a pain in the ass to implement the way i do now.