How does certain mechanics work?

[Dakk]

[spoiler WARNING, ENTIRE POST]

First, it's great that you (and others) are making this conversion David!

I've been anticipating this release for quite some time, having never played IWD, but recently I could not contain my want for a Forgotten Realms fix any longer - and installed IWD. There are definitely some differences between BG(2) and IWD, and there are a few mechanics I'm wondering over how they will work in IWDinBG2.

 

These are, so far (just entered Chapter 2):

1) Random treasure table; how will this work? The difference in loot can be huge, the RANDOM table can be a +1 Toothpick or a custom powerful Greatsword. BG did not have that at all, right?

 

2) There are quite a few instances where it's of great importance which character does the talking. For example, in Kuldahar a Fighter PC (the "Protagonist", not that IWD really has that) talking to a townsperson only have generic dialog options, Char2 (a Paladin) can make the townsperson a Champion of Justice for 1200 exp, and Char3 (Druid) can make another townsperson (actually the same person, for added humour) a Champion of Nature for another 1200 exp. If I recall BG(2) correct, it would matter what class CHARNAME is - or if you had a relevant NPC in in the party he/she would interject. But it never mattered who initiated conversation(?), how will this work?

 

3) I find that you can (and almost are expected to) rest really often, and I'm pretty much never interrupted. In the great undead dungeon (with Kresselack) in the Vale of Shadows, it's possible to rest with enemies just outside the fog of war/around the corner. And the two times I've been interrupted the party crashers were lowly crappy skeletons, quickly dispatched. Compared to the kobolds in Nashkel (BG1) - a fantastic dungeon (kobolds ) - which are on your case constantly, this is way less scary. I know, I could just NOT rest, but sometimes I weigh the options of risking another encounter low on spells vs. resting and get interrupted, and going for the rest wins out. It kind of skews the risk assessment when resting is safe 98 times out of 100 though. Any changes? Hell, most of the time I'd almost prefer the boring "You may not rest at this time", which would force me to dig deep in my potions and scroll bags.

 

Cheers!

[DavidW]

1) basically the same way as in IWD, except that for technical reasons the randomisation won't (usually) change whenever you reload, it'll only change when you reinstall.

 

2) Unchanged from IWD, i.e. the person who does the talking is the person who determines what options you get.

 

3) Theoretically this is also unchanged from IWD. (It's possible that the game engine interprets the relevant parameters differently, but as far as I know this doesn't happen in practice.)

[Jarno Mikkola]

Hmm...

These are, so far (just entered Chapter 2):

1) Random treasure table; how will this work? The difference in loot can be huge, the RANDOM table can be a +1 Toothpick or a custom powerful Greatsword. BG did not have that at all, right?

I don't know how it worked in exactly in IwD, but in BG2, it works like this: creatures, lockers and other objects have a specific item(rndtre01-05.itm) that the game then replaces with "random item from a table" during the creation of that specific creature, loading of the area or placing it into the fog of war, so if a goblin has that item, it will gain 5 gp's or something else if the table has that, when it's 'placed'.

 

Now then, the IwD's tables should be much like the tables in BG2... the problem you describe comes from the fact that the tables contain other random items from different tier levels, so the 1-15 Gold Pieces's(AVERAGE, should be the "rndtre02.itm") random item can become magic item(the RNDMAG01, from the table which has 1/50 chances to come up), that then becomes a good weapon(the RNDWEP02 which has 1/50 chance to come up) that can potentially become a Full Plate Mail +1(the plat14 which has 1/20 chance to come up)... yes, the tables are really that random and if you have a "good luck", and use the default BGII - ToB tables, you can have a Full Plate +1 from a Gibberling.

 

3) Theoretically this is also unchanged from IWD. (It's possible that the game engine interprets the relevant parameters differently, but as far as I know this doesn't happen in practice.)

And it can later be adjusted with a tweak mod, but first the game should be made to be as close as one can make to the original...

[grogerson]

1) Random treasure table; how will this work? The difference in loot can be huge, the RANDOM table can be a +1 Toothpick or a custom powerful Greatsword. BG did not have that at all, right?

1) basically the same way as in IWD, except that for technical reasons the randomisation won't (usually) change whenever you reload, it'll only change when you reinstall.

I'm not sure how IWD-inBG2 works the random treasures, but here's my experience.

 

Way back when, when Cam was majorly updating Dale Tweaks, I looked into the random treasure system of the game. When you first enter an area each random item file checks the appropriate line in the RNDTRES.2da file and places that item in the creature's inventory. There is an equal chance of any item on that line to be picked, which is unlike BG (as I recall from the early open beta testing of BGT the items in the middle were more likely to be picked than the ends). In IWD it’s much more straight forward. They added multiple entries if they wanted items to be more likely, and never leaves the line to pick from another.

 

As an example, skeleton archers in Kresselack's tomb level 1 have as random items SKEL_M1, SKEL_R1, AROW_P1 and RNGP1. The first time you enter the area the skeletons are equipped with these items.

 

Below are the 2da entries.

 

Skel_M1	hamm01	sw2h01	sw1h01	ax1h01	staf01	blun02	sw1h04	sw1h07	blun06	dagg01	hqlswrd hqmace	hamm01	sw2h01	sw1h01	ax1h01	blun06	blun02	sw1h04	sw1h07
Skel_R1	bow05	bow05	bow03	bow01	bow03	bow05	bow05		
Arow_P1	arow01	arow01	arow01	arow02	arow08	arow01	arow01	arow01
RNGp1		uDart1a	arow01	arow01	uDart1a	arow02	bolt01	bull02	bolt01	bull02

Below is how they work out, chance-wise.

SKEL_M1 war hammer (2/20), two handed sword (2/20), bastard sword (2/20), battle axe (2/20), quarterstaff (1/20), flail (2/20), long sword (2/20), short sword (2/20), morning star (2/20), dagger (1/20), high quality long sword (1/20), high quality mace (1/20)

SKEL_R1 short bow (4/7), long bow (2/7), composite long bow (1/7)

AROW_P1 arrow (6/8), arrow +1 (1/8), fire arrow (1/8)

RNGP1 hammer dart (2/9), arrow (2/9), arrow +1 (1/9), bolt (2/9), bullet +1 (2/9)

Later in the game the random items are more powerful and rare. That was why Dan Simpson noted in his walkthrough that if you don’t like what you got from a specific random drop, go back to a save prior to first entering that area and try again for the item you want (like Elven Chain of the Hand from AR5203 or Kaylessa’s gloves from AR5401 in the Severed Hand).