Component idea: Of dragons and the flats of swords

[CamDawg]

Going way, way, waaaaay back to my my first rule books, I recall there being some interesting twists for DMs with dragon encounters.

 

One such idea was essentially a fake battle with dragons. The idea was that the PCs could fight dragons, but using the flats of their swords, in order to non-lethally challenge dragons in exchange for favors, wishes, etc. The dragons would go all out so the danger remains for the PCs, but the dragon itself would yield once it had been (fictionally) beaten. It was, fairly transparently, a way to allow good PCs to challenge good dragons and reap rewards without any of those nasty role-playing complications.

 

I propose a component of SCS2 to allow just that--once her eggs have been returned to Adalon, would she be up for a challenge? Similarly, a good party can not really justify attacking Saladrex in WK, but he may also be up for a challenge. Outside of Saladrex and Adalon I don't really see where else this might apply.

 

Just an idea.

[Dermit]

From 2nd Ed. Forgotten Realms Revised

 

Among both good and evil dragons, there is a code of honor

that allows dragon combat without resulting in death. Such combat

involves ritual battle with feints and pulled blows, each side

demonstrating the damage it could have inflicted. This is the

source of the legendary subdual of dragons, where the brave hero

gives the dragon a hard swat on the snout and the beast rolls over

and surrenders. In reality, such subdual combat is the product of a

stated challenge (in auld wyrmish, an archaic dragon tongue),

with the proper forms and appearances observed. Individual

dragons may agree to such combat with humans, though they do

not pull their attacks when fighting nondragons in this fashion. It

should also be noted that since the Time of Troubles a decade

ago, there is no recorded instance of a dragon agreeing to such

combat or surrendering in this fashion to a mortal creature.

 

I think it would be fun little challenge. Might be an interesting subcomponent for a PnP Dragons implementation (Atweaks?)

[Dakk]

Probably not a SCS(II) component .. but here's more reading to be had:

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Feint_of_Honor

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Feint_of_honour

(the above articles should probably be merged)

 

Two instances of the Feint of Honour takes place in the novel Curse of the Azure Bonds,

the dragon Mist first battling Alias and later the paladin Dragonbait

.

[Igneous]

Cool idea. Gives the role-players among us a nice excuse to power-game.

 

How would it work, though? Add some dialogue branches and give the dragon a min-hp item? And some more dialogue for when the dragon yields, I suppose, with gifts of experience and appropriate items from the dragon's hoard. Hmm.

[Dermit]

Cool idea. Gives the role-players among us a nice excuse to power-game.

 

How would it work, though? Add some dialogue branches and give the dragon a min-hp item? And some more dialogue for when the dragon yields, I suppose, with gifts of experience and appropriate items from the dragon's hoard. Hmm.

 

About what I had in mind, maybe knock them down to 25%-50%. A good dragon like Adalon might possibly resurrect your fallen, though I imagine she would be quite annoyed with Charname for throwing down the gauntlet at such a time. I suppose it isn't necessary, but I'd bet Firkraag would be up for a duel, for his amusement of course!

 

Either way some banter fun could be had as to how Charname knows Wyrmish and why on earth he would suddenly decide to challenge a dragon.

 

Again utterly unnecessary, but for roleplay reasoning a player could challenge the Black Dragon in Suld. with terms that if he loses he must fly off.

[CamDawg]

I was thinking something along the lines of initiation via dialogue, then slapping an item on the dragon (set hp1, not minhp1) and then having at it. The dragon could stop the fight if the party used any magic with a remote chance of insta-death, i.e. disintegrate, FoD, etc. You'd also have to script a small grace period once combat was over in case some projectiles are still in flight--don't want a late arrow starting real combat after the honor battle.

 

I could see Firkraag, Saladrex, and Adalon (only after eggs have been returned) up for a challenge, with a maybe for Nizidramanii'yt. Thaxll'ssillyia has always struck me as a mindless/bound summon so I'd say no for him. The WK green, hell trial dragon, and Abazigal & co. are obvious nos.

 

As for rewards...? Easy answer is some XP, gold, and some of the items you would get if you actually killed them--with some exceptions, obviously, as no dragon is going to offer scales/blood and Firkraag definitely isn't giving you Carsomyr. Straight cash for a chapter two Firkraag battle would also make sense.

[spanyam]

This is indeed a very interesting idea, but it would have some roleplay limitations when magic is involved. Using the "flat of a blade" makes sense when it comes to roleplaying. But there's no real "flat" of a Horrid Wilting, nor can you non-lethally cast Dragonbreath or Disintegrate. Casting those WILL hurt the dragon for real.

 

Perhaps the dragon could agree to a duel by allowing you to fight a Simulacrum (if dragons are allowed Simulacrums, that is). Then again, I'm not sure how it will be possible to code just the Simulacrum to be hostile, while leaving the original neutral. And even from a roleplaying standpoint, what's to stop an evil or sadistic dragon (say, Firkraag) to let you tire yourself out on a Simulacrum and then attack your weakened party anyway. Or, perhaps, that's exactly why you SHOULDN'T agree to a subdual ritual with an evil dragon. Just some thoughts....

[DavidW]

I've been thinking about this, but I'm struggling to think of how the dialogue could be done realistically. Of the two dragons in question, Adalon is furious and distressed and doesn't naturally seem to be in the mood for a playfight, and Saladrex is turned off by the whole idea of fighting.

 

I'm also fairly sympathetic to spanyam's worry about "the flat of ADHW".

 

Having said that, I think the idea of ritual battle with dragons in principle is good - witness my homage to it with Anadramatis - so if someone can suggest solutions, I'm listening.

[Guest maximus]

I've been thinking about this, but I'm struggling to think of how the dialogue could be done realistically. Of the two dragons in question, Adalon is furious and distressed and doesn't naturally seem to be in the mood for a playfight, and Saladrex is turned off by the whole idea of fighting.

 

I'm also fairly sympathetic to spanyam's worry about "the flat of ADHW".

 

Having said that, I think the idea of ritual battle with dragons in principle is good - witness my homage to it with Anadramatis - so if someone can suggest solutions, I'm listening.

 

 

Actually there is a quest like this in Check the Bodies mod called "the Subdual". There is a level check for the party when talking with a pirate at the City Gates. When it passes you can go to a new spot on the map.

 

Once there you can talk with the dragon. You can ask for an honor duel, which she agrees to. Then you set the terms.

1)What percent of damage inflicted before the fight ends (10,25,50,etc.)

2)If spellcasting will be allowed (either buffs, or damaging spells, or both)

3)Negotiation of reward (she gets all your loot or money, or you get magic items or gold from her)

 

I was able to handle this fight with only my paladin pc, because of the terms for no magic use. The reward I picked was a bottle or box that allows summoning the dragon three times to help you out.

 

It would be interesting to do something like this with the dragons you mentioned.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!