Bards

[n-ghost]

I'd actually very much like to try out a useless bard for a change as either protagonist or cleric substitute, because sorcerers are made out of cheese and clerics have personal issues with reality. And we all know that Haer'Dalis is not a real bard, Jack Black is.

 

I mean, defeating The Five with the power of rock. Wasn't it that important thing other day we've sworn to do and forgot it completely afterwards?

[kreso]

I'm in the process of refining the Blade kit for my own playthrough.

Now, I'd need some suggestions on how to tweak the kit.

I love the idea of kit "singing while fighting", thus I implemented this (it only happens on melee hit effect, not ranged, and it grants allies +1 THAC0, damage and AC - level 10 bonuses are +2, level 19 +3, not cumulative with itself). Still not sure about what these bonuses should be - I'd love to replace AC with something not so standard/generic.....

I'm also gonna make them ambidexterous (as RR implementation) since it fits them.

Now, I need to do something about their spins. Offensive is broken, since apperantly it hastes him. Why is blur here...?

I'm not sure what to do with it. I don't really like +1apr for some reason.

Defensive is just as dumb, and -10 to AC at level 10 is way to much.

Should they simply be removed from him? I'd prefer some kind of rework, since AI would appearantly make use of these abilities (I don't know which enemy is a blade however, if any).

Any ideas are welcome.

[Demivrgvs]

If you can wait 4-5 days I'll be back full time on KR and rogues (Thieves and Bards) are my top priority there.

 

If you really cannot wait (I guess you want to test IR's new feature eh? ) I'll try to write down some ideas during a pause (I'm working on Animal/Monster Summoning spells right now, you cannot imagine how much work those spells require ), maybe later after dinner.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I love the idea of kit "singing while fighting", thus I implemented this (it only happens on melee hit effect...

In my mind, it's not good to go with melee hits cause you could miss, or be hitting a lich... or your own guy. These could work in the similar way the warriors stances work. The thing they give up while singing is the ability to cast any spells, as dah, casting while singing is kinda impossible, in my world at least. The spins... if we add a few different "songs", that buff different aspects, the spins become redundant.

And yeah, the difference between the warriors stances and bards songs is the bards gives bonuses to a small area, while fighter only to himself, but the warrior is far better at fighting and more HPs, better gear and proficiency. And Blade could actually give up a few of of the normal bard spells to be able to keep up with the Thac0 progression of real warriors, the good thing is the same level progression.

[subtledoctor]

My suggestion: delete Offensive Spin from existence. It's horrendous, and it has zero to do with the PnP source of this kit. It's more like a kensai 'Kai' ability - except oh wait, the bard kit who, according to its description is terrible at melee combat, gets an even better melee buff than the kensai who spends so much time practicing melee skills he can't even strap on a suit of armor.

 

I've recently replaced the bard song of my Jongleur kit to be a Blade Song ability that 1) buffs his AC, replacing defensive spin, and 2) penalizes opponents' melee attacks. I'm going to add in a Lingering effects so he can dance around intimidating people, and then end the dance with a coup de grace attack.

 

Point being, this was inspired by the *actual* Blade's Weapons Display ability from the Comete Bard's Handbook. I suggest removing the Spins altogether and doing something like that.

 

The on-hit effect is a very cool idea, but again in keeping with the Blade's PnP source I would have it affect enemies with a Fear effect very short-term, and with a healthy save bonus, if it's every single melee hit he ever makes), rather than allies with a combat buff. Or, rather than having it occur on every melee hit, make that the principal effect of Offensive Spin, so he gets ten rounds of an intimidating style of weapon use.

[kreso]

I did found some online sources:

 

Defensive Spin (Ex): When the blade chooses to fight defensively, or use all-out defense in melee combat, he gains a competence bonus to Armor Class equal to one-half his class level, rounded down, during this maneuver. Any opponent that makes a melee attack against the blade must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + Blade level + Blade’s Dex modifier) or they take an amount of damage equal to half the blade’s level, up to the maximum damage of their weapon, including enhancements. A successful attack on the blade ends the defensive spin.
The defensive spin may only be used once per combat, and lasts a number of rounds equal to the blade’s Constitution score.

 

 

This I like, and I can make it work (sort of). I'd need to make two spells. Both use 232, first one condition "every round when attacked", and damages whoever is near like a Fireshield (but would trigger on attack attempt. I could use slahing damage here.). The second one would use "target hit" and would remove the first (this would require a custom sec type, but I think I can go around that with some ugly hackery).

I don't really know if this (and how) would preform in game, especially at higher levels when PfMW becomes available and bard would become invulnerable (not that this is much different from other spellcasters anyway).

Maybe a better soultion (and simpler) - use one 232, every round when attacked, but set his apr to 0. He only parrys, and cannot actually attack. Given how he "sings" (via melee hit effect) this would make it more balanced, since you could no longer buff allies or use your weapons (and any on-hit effects like poison, bleeding, stun etc.). Think I'm gonna go with this unless there are better suggestions. The only thing I'd neet to sort out is how much damage he should deal. It should never surpass weapons imo (1d6+1, then 1d8+1, finally 1d10+1).

 

Same source says this for OS:

 

Offensive Spin (Ex): As a full-round action, the blade can perform an offensive spin. The blade chooses a specific opponent, and instead of attacking, begins to whirl his weapons about him in a fearsome display. During the round, the opponent is free to attack the blade, and a successful attack ends the offensive spin and prevents its use against that opponent. If the blade successfully completes the spin, on his next round he may make a single normal attack against that opponent. If he hits, he deals maximum damage and the opponent must make a Will save (DC 10 + the blade’s HD + the blade’s Cha modifier) or stay at least ten feet from the blade (going off to attack other members of the blade’s party, or fleeing in terror if the blade is the only opponent). The blade may not perform an offensive spin against any creature that has previously damaged him.

 

This I don't like and is imo stupid. What I do like about it is that it's a "duel-ability"; i.e. it affects one oponnent, rather then buffing the bard. How about making OS into a targeted ability? I'm unsure about the effects however.

 

I like this idea of subtledoctor as well- instead of buffing allies when fighting, they gain a sort of "frightening" effect, which debuffs oponnents (THAC0 penalty or similar, with additional effects gained at higher levels - i.e. fear) Toughts? Imo, this would fit a Blade even better (I kind of envision this kit as someone who doesn't really know how to fight, but should be able to make others think he's really good at it).

Then, one could use melee hit buff for Skalds (to actually make use of combat bonuses they recieve ), and keep singing to True Class (buffs) and Jester (debuffs).

[kreso]

"The best songs are not sung, but parried, slashed, and stung."

[subtledoctor]

(I kind of envision this kit as someone who doesn't really know how to fight, but should be able to make others think he's really good at it).

Funny story: that's precisely how the kit was originally defined. A flashy stage actor who can intimidate people who don't know any better, but would be destroyed in a brawl with a real warrior.

 

It's only 3E+ and/or Bioware who decided "let's utterly change this kit, that's already well-conceived, from a fop into a melee powerhouse, instead of using our imagination and just coming up with a new bard kit that's good at melee."

 

My mod completely eliminates the Blade, it just pisses me off too much. So feel free to use that fear/debuff-on-hit idea. I'm sure you guys could implement it much better than me anyway.