BioWare NPC ages?

[ericp07]

Hello,

 

Are any of the BGII NPCs' ages mentioned anywhere, or are we to guess at a rough age for each? It has occurred to me that a character's age might be relevant to dialogue (relative to the PC, relative to each other, etc.), so I'd like to know where to find this information, or (if none exists) to get an accurate estimate for the joinable characters.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[berelinde]

It's been stated numerous times, with no absolute authority.

[Kulyok]

I believe it's best to skip this part, because no one is quite sure, and because you could ruin some pre-conceived notions of the character the player already has. Besides, Valygar can be 25 and 35; Cernd can be 30 and 50 and so on and so forth.

[ericp07]

I believe it's best to skip this part, because no one is quite sure, and because you could ruin some pre-conceived notions of the character the player already has. Besides, Valygar can be 25 and 35; Cernd can be 30 and 50 and so on and so forth.

 

Even that would be helpful, to know approximate age, +/- some. Maybe each character's overall maturity level is more important. Erysseril turns 134 on game day 11, but she doesn't make a big deal about it. I don't know if any of the characters (especially Jaheira) would consider her older or younger; she's been adventuring during the 20 years prior to BGII, but not at a ferocious pace.

 

So, if there's no way to really sort this, I'll avoid making relative age-related comments in the dialogues.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[berelinde]

Your best bet is to go with personalities rather than ages. How do you interpret the various NPCs? Besides, age is only a number. Cernd is definitely an adult, but some might consider his behavior immature.

 

I know you're fixated on details, but this is probably the time to let them go.

[ericp07]

Your best bet is to go with personalities rather than ages. How do you interpret the various NPCs? Besides, age is only a number. Cernd is definitely an adult, but some might consider his behavior immature.

 

I know you're fixated on details, but this is probably the time to let them go.

 

Details are nearly an obsession with me, so this is a helpful object lesson. Leaving more to the player's imagination might be better than trying to cover all bases specifically (leading to information overload,which I don't want), even if it will take a while to become comfortable leaving more unstated. That has me wondering now if there are any writing techniques I could use that would help inspire creative imagery in the player's mind, as Erysseril interacts with the characters and the world around her.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Luridel]

It's implied in BG1 that Imoen is two years younger than the player character, who is twenty years old. At the least, she came to Candlekeep two years later than you did. I generally place her anywhere from 19 to 21 in ToB.

 

But if the PC is any of the longer-lived races, the PC's arbitrarily-stated age of 20 makes no sense - a twenty-year-old elf is still a child.

[Shaitan]

I think to remember that the starting age of the PC is stated in the booklet following the original game. There's a difference between the various races AFAIR.

[ericp07]

It's implied in BG1 that Imoen is two years younger than the player character, who is twenty years old. At the least, she came to Candlekeep two years later than you did. I generally place her anywhere from 19 to 21 in ToB.

 

But if the PC is any of the longer-lived races, the PC's arbitrarily-stated age of 20 makes no sense - a twenty-year-old elf is still a child.

 

Indeed, and it was clever of the game designers not to state the PC's mother's race. An elf is considered an adult, ready to venture out on his/her own, at ~110 years, give or take a few (114 in Erysseril's case).

 

- E

[berelinde]

Leaving more to the player's imagination might be better than trying to cover all bases specifically (leading to information overload,which I don't want), even if it will take a while to become comfortable leaving more unstated. That has me wondering now if there are any writing techniques I could use that would help inspire creative imagery in the player's mind, as Meleryn interacts with the characters and the world around her.

Please, please, please don't spend another minute thinking about writing techniques. You are writing dialogue. You do not need to interpret what the PC is experiencing. The player can and should figure that out himself.

 

"Information overload" is a danger, yes, but the bigger danger is telling the player what to think. Yes, the game does that sometimes, like when the troll splits and the game pops up a message saying something about the horror you feel as the troll splits in two. Some of my characters might have been horrified, yes, but others would have thought "Bugger this! I just killed that bastard!"

 

Don't state anything. No feelings, no impressions. Stick to what the PC hears.

 

You don't really need to delve too deeply into "creative imagery." If you want the character to appear terse and irritated, keep the sentences short and blunt. If you want the character to seem bewildered, let them stammer a bit, or introduce elipses. Most of the time, though, the characters are just going to be talking. No need to overdo it.

[Ardanis]

It's implied in BG1 that Imoen is two years younger than the player character, who is twenty years old. At the least, she came to Candlekeep two years later than you did. I generally place her anywhere from 19 to 21 in ToB.

IIRC she says she's the same age as PC (who's 20). And she definitely says so in beginning of BG2.

[ericp07]

It's implied in BG1 that Imoen is two years younger than the player character, who is twenty years old. At the least, she came to Candlekeep two years later than you did. I generally place her anywhere from 19 to 21 in ToB.

IIRC she says she's the same age as PC (who's 20). And she definitely says so in beginning of BG2.

 

To be an 8th level character at that age is not shabby! Hadn't considered that till now. Sorry, just a brief ramble. So, 20 looks like a good average. Handy to know.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Andarielle]

Leaving more to the player's imagination might be better than trying to cover all bases specifically (leading to information overload,which I don't want), even if it will take a while to become comfortable leaving more unstated. That has me wondering now if there are any writing techniques I could use that would help inspire creative imagery in the player's mind, as Meleryn interacts with the characters and the world around her.

Please, please, please don't spend another minute thinking about writing techniques. You are writing dialogue. You do not need to interpret what the PC is experiencing. The player can and should figure that out himself.

 

"Information overload" is a danger, yes, but the bigger danger is telling the player what to think. Yes, the game does that sometimes, like when the troll splits and the game pops up a message saying something about the horror you feel as the troll splits in two. Some of my characters might have been horrified, yes, but others would have thought "Bugger this! I just killed that bastard!"

 

Don't state anything. No feelings, no impressions. Stick to what the PC hears.

 

You don't really need to delve too deeply into "creative imagery." If you want the character to appear terse and irritated, keep the sentences short and blunt. If you want the character to seem bewildered, let them stammer a bit, or introduce elipses. Most of the time, though, the characters are just going to be talking. No need to overdo it.

 

That is very useful information! Thanks so much Berelinde!

[SixOfSpades]

Jaheira is roughly a decade older than Charname; the Roll of Years places the Tethyrian civil war (the "Ten Black Days of Eleint") in 1347 DR, the year before Charname was born. One of Jaheira's Lovetalks describes that she was a child during this time.

 

You don't really need to delve too deeply into "creative imagery." Most of the time, the characters are just going to be talking. No need to overdo it.

Indeed. Above all, try to keep consistent with the rest of the game, or the fact that your mod content is, well, mod content, is going to create a jarring note of discord. My booby-prize mention for this one is the Chosen of Cyric encounter in Rogue Rebalancing, where it seemed every single conversation option was preceded with a character trait that "enabled" you to choose that option, such as "[intrigue]" or "[Observation]". It stuck out like a sore thumb, and looked stupid as all hell.

In contrast, I remember one of the original BG1 dialogues, with a merchant who was intent on getting out of the Iron Throne building. If you asked him what was going on, he'd give you some brief exposition, but if you kept plying him with questions, he'd say "Let go of my arm" and leave. I really liked that, the conversation adding that little bit of roleplay without my having to click a conversation option of "(grab his arm) But what can he hope to gain from this?" or something like that.

[aVENGER_(RR)]

My booby-prize mention for this one is the Chosen of Cyric encounter in Rogue Rebalancing, where it seemed every single conversation option was preceded with a character trait that "enabled" you to choose that option, such as "[intrigue]" or "[Observation]".

 

Heh, while some CoC dialogue options that require an attribute/skill check do have descriptors like [Persuade] (for charisma) or [insight] (for intelligence / wisdom) I'm reasonably sure that there was nothing quite so silly as [Observation] in there. For what it's worth, some of the newer RR dialogue uses actual attributes i.e. [intelligence] as check descriptors instead of the aforementioned connotations.

 

It stuck out like a sore thumb, and looked stupid as all hell.

 

It's perfectly understandable that some people don't like this dialogue style, even more so because it was barely ever used in the original game. However, I personally am a firm believer that if a player needs to meet a certain ability/skill check in order to access a particular dialogue option, he should be aware of it. In my opinion, it brings a sense of gratification to the player to know that his investment into a non-combat skill/attribute is paying off. Not that it matters, but Bioware's designers seem to agree, as this approach was used in all of their subsequent games (Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic...).

 

Jaheira is roughly a decade older than Charname; the Roll of Years places the Tethyrian civil war (the "Ten Black Days of Eleint") in 1347 DR, the year before Charname was born. One of Jaheira's Lovetalks describes that she was a child during this time.

 

Nice find! I always had a hunch that she was in her mid-late thirties.