Detectable Spells in other mods

[Miloch]

I actually finished and uploaded the update to BP DS.

You were updating BP? Pass it here, dude... would save me from doing it .

 

I think BP should use this version too but I haven't really gotten around to looking at it.

 

Isn't there a marker for the Kelsey stuff? Obviously it shouldn't get copied if Kelsey isn't even present (yet) when DS goes in.

[Miloch]

So Ascension also adds a lot of #282 opcodes (scripting state modifiers) to spells. I would assume the sole purpose of these is for Detectable Spells. Are these used by the current version of DS or would it in fact deprecate them? In other words, should I bother patching those in if there are no other changes?

 

(Hate to ask questions like this here, but there doesn't seem to be a Detectable Spells subforum or anything.)

[Ardanis]

So Ascension also adds a lot of #282 opcodes (scripting state modifiers) to spells.

These are exactly the DS stats.

To update, you need to:

1) clean up the spl/copy folder of DSed spells, as well as the shipped alongside stats.ids

2) add a modern DS folder and launch it from tp2

 

(Hate to ask questions like this here, but there doesn't seem to be a Detectable Spells subforum or anything.)

We can have one opened on SHS, maybe in Modding Tools.

I'll run a couple more tests tonight - would hate to let a bug lip in, - then upload the new version.

[Miloch]

1) clean up the spl/copy folder of DSed spells, as well as the shipped alongside stats.ids

By "clean up," do you mean removing the #282 opcodes so that DS can do that in a proper and standard manner? If so, that makes the work a bit easier. It looks like Weimer did not include a lot of resources from the original Ascension. In some cases, it is just the addition of a #282 that got missed; in others, there appear to be other valid changes that got missed.

 

Also, stats.ids doesn't get overwritten in the current development version but patched. I'm guessing we can skip this and just let DS do it?

[Ardanis]

Yes and yes.

 

Valid changes - do you know which ones exactly? I know offhands that Absolute Immunity had incorrect duration in vanilla, but it's supposed to be fixed by Fixpack, and even if it's not, then it still won't break anything (unless AI relies on hardcoded timers, rather than CheckStat(), which iirc is not the case).

[the bigg]

You were updating BP? Pass it here, dude... would save me from doing it .

I didn't work on BP - I remember trying to update RtW from the Ascension version to the BP version of DS, but I can't recall if I saw that through (and, if I did, whether I actually ever uploaded that). According to Arkanis, I actually never got around to doing (or sharing) that.

 

Isn't there a marker for the Kelsey stuff? Obviously it shouldn't get copied if Kelsey isn't even present (yet) when DS goes in.

JCompton said that Kelsey shouldn't ship DS or AI scripts for its enemies, but rather downgrade them to the standard Bioware scripts (so that enemies added by Kelsey will be altered by the user's chosen AI package). Source.

[Miloch]

Valid changes - do you know which ones exactly?

Actually, I was looking at erebusant's version, which didn't include everything in the official WeiDU version. So you can assume anything in that is in there is legit for a new version (except the #282 opcodes). I haven't gone through all the actual spells yet, just the innates so far. A lot of the changes there can be patched quite easily - things like setting a secondary type or innate levels to 1 (though some are quite complex with adding/removing/changing effects). I doubt we want two early mods overwriting the same spells (e.g. Ascension and SR) unless one includes all relevant changes from the other (somehow I doubt that).

 

Speaking of that though, Ascension adds a(nother) #282 to spcl741 (Boon of Lathander), with a state of 3. It already has a #282 with a state of 2. So I'm not going to bother adding the new #282, but should we remove the existing one too (or does DS handle all that)?

I didn't work on BP - I remember trying to update RtW from the Ascension version to the BP version of DS, but I can't recall if I saw that through (and, if I did, whether I actually ever uploaded that). According to Arkanis, I actually never got around to doing (or sharing) that.

I looked at the DS in BP and it seems rather extensive (more so that Ascension). Anyone know if the SCS DS would cover it or would it that need to be extended with more (BP) stats?

JCompton said that Kelsey shouldn't ship DS or AI scripts for its enemies, but rather downgrade them to the standard Bioware scripts (so that enemies added by Kelsey will be altered by the user's chosen AI package).

Right, but we still need to address the existing version until that happens I guess. Sounds like Ardanis was saying, what if the following occurs:

 

1) Ascension is installed (with new DS)

2) Kelsey is installed (with old DS)

3) SCS2 is installed (with new DS)

 

#1 would not do anything to Kelsey's scripts obviously, but #3 should (but skip the rest of DS), hence there should be a separate "marker" for the Kelsey DS fixes (not necessarily a junk file IMO ) - cddetect.spl is for all of DS, no?

[Ardanis]

Speaking of that though, Ascension adds a(nother) #282 to spcl741 (Boon of Lathander), with a state of 3. It already has a #282 with a state of 2. So I'm not going to bother adding the new #282, but should we remove the existing one too (or does DS handle all that)?

It's from vanilla. I think they already were using first six scripting states for exactly the same purpose, DS simply has greatly expanded the system.

282/1/2 is the immunity to level drain, 282/1/1 - immunity to death effects, and I think I've found something else in vanilla too when I've run a search.

 

I looked at the DS in BP and it seems rather extensive (more so that Ascension). Anyone know if the SCS DS would cover it or would it that need to be extended with more (BP) stats?

IIRC BP also includes a stat for ill effects, like clouds. In any case, BP's version isn't compatible with spell-changing mods (like SR), since it's writes hardcoded values instead of reading them from a file being patched. Some garbage can be safely removed from there too.

 

#1 would not do anything to Kelsey's scripts obviously, but #3 should (but skip the rest of DS), hence there should be a separate "marker" for the Kelsey DS fixes (not necessarily a junk file IMO ) - cddetect.spl is for all of DS, no?

Alright then, since no suggestion has followed, I'll decide myself I'll make a reusable anti-old-DS block targeting exact filenames to kill off Kelsey and friends, should they be detected. Needs to build another table, sigh...

[Miloch]

BP's version isn't compatible with spell-changing mods (like SR)

Who cares? But seriously, I was asking with a view toward making it as compatible as possible, and just plugging in the "modular" DS. So if it needs to support anything additional from BP, can't it be extended to do that?

[Miloch]

So Ascension also adds a lot of #282 opcodes (scripting state modifiers) to spells. I would assume the sole purpose of these is for Detectable Spells.

What about opcodes #265 and #309 (set global variable and set/modify local variable)? The original Ascension applies these to spwi910 (Imprison) to set the IMPRISON variable. Is it something specific to Ascension or is it more widely applicable (i.e., to detect whether anyone is imprisoned)?

[Miloch]

*crickets chirping* eh?

 

I opened a topic to continue the discussion here, to avoid spamming the SCS2 forum (though it is relevant to that too). And hopefully, the discussion does get continued, since I've got the main component of Ascension working with the exception of DS. I'd like to make sure that works before moving on to the subcomponents (or getting bored senseless and moving off to something else, as I tend to do).