SR v4 (detailed list of changes - ongoing update)

[Grammarsalad]

 

Ha! Or from a philosophy student. How do we see something 'as it really is' when the way it 'really' is as a thing in itself, is beyond all possible perception/representation.

You just apply some general relativity and there you go. As in, you don't have to become the thing itself to know & sympathize with it(to a point).

This from a devil that doesn't believe into chaos.

Of course one could find a better ways to express the same though, say; "When this spell is cast, the caster gains the ability to see all things without the normal burdens of illusions...

it's a little known fact that Kant pwned Einstein! (and Bohr)! Only Kant avoided trancendental realism!

 

Even your amendment won't quirk. an illusion is pierced by judgement, reason, not mere perception. This spell is impossible, I tell you! Impossible! ... Oh yeah (make believe!)

 

[Jarno Mikkola]

Only Kant avoided trancendental realism!

Actually, I bet that he himself never said that... "It is important to note that Kant was himself not a transcendental realist, but rather a transcendental idealist." -wikipedia.

So your point is unreal.

[janoha]

 

 

Ha! Or from a philosophy student. How do we see something 'as it really is' when the way it 'really' is as a thing in itself, is beyond all possible perception/representation.

You just apply some general relativity and there you go. As in, you don't have to become the thing itself to know & sympathize with it(to a point).

This from a devil that doesn't believe into chaos.

Of course one could find a better ways to express the same though, say; "When this spell is cast, the caster gains the ability to see all things without the normal burdens of illusions...

it's a little known fact that Kant pwned Einstein! (and Bohr)! Only Kant avoided trancendental realism!

 

Even your amendment won't quirk. an illusion is pierced by judgement, reason, not mere perception. This spell is impossible, I tell you! Impossible! ... Oh yeah (make believe!)

 

 

 

Sorry for being OT but I have to comment on this. It is just plain ridiculous to claim that Kant pwned Einstein and Bohr. (If you weren't just being tongue-in-cheek ).

The real difference between a philosopher and a scientist, is that a scientist makes predictions that can be tested. And both Einstein and Bohr came up with theories that were proved to be true (or at least not falsified yet), and has shown remarkable predictive power and made many things possible, which were impossible before. Kant just talks, and while it might be interesting and of personal use, it has nothing like the real value of physics in explaining the world and improving peoples lifes.

 

On a more relevant topic:

 

Find familiar

I know you eventually want to do a more expansive revamp of that whole system, but is it possible to remove then CON penalty from a familar dying, or is it hardcoded? If you can I would actually use my familiar instead of just having a health item in my backpack.

Edited August 19, 2014 by janoha

[n-ghost]

I'm not sure if this is the case right now or if it even should be handled by SR at all, but anyway: there's that little level one (or level two? Hell it's been long) spell called 'Protection from Petrification' that turns all the basilisks in BG into total joke expfeast.

 

Greater basilisks are meant to be horrifying beasts that would send any party running all the way up to Icewind Dale and farther simply by waving tail a bit through fog of war. In BG, though, what's the only thought that player has seeing it? Right, 'free 7k exp for me, yey!'

 

So, it makes me wonder if it's possible to make PfP grant not complete petrification immunity, but, say, make petrification stun people instead of turning them into stone?

 

Or maybe it's worth at least to move it few tiers up, maybe even to level 4 or 5\wiz (you don't get much of those spell levels in BG part of the game, nor would you actually care about basilisk grinding when you already have them) and nerf it's duration so you couldn't clear a whole map full of them with just one hasted fighter?

 

This spell could also act as a ward vs disintegration, making it a semi-viable beholder counter.

Edited August 20, 2014 by n-ghost

[Jarno Mikkola]

This spell could also act as a ward vs disintegration, making it a semi-viable beholder counter.

That would be a different spell, call it Mirrored Eyes(like the potion), and add effects which ever you like/you find suitable.

The reason why the 2nd level spell existed in BG1 is the same as the Basilisks did, you got to use it to kill them, if you don't, well you are pretty screwed.

[Sergio]

First, it seems strange, at least according to me, that spell revision should change the gaze attack of basilisks.
Second, the less spells, the better. The spellbook is already cluttered <.<

[Jarno Mikkola]

Second, the less spells, the better. The spellbook is already cluttered <.<

You can always unlearn any of the Arcane spells.

And first, well it's a counter... won't it be natural to edit the creature files the summoning spell summon, when you remove the summon cap... As there's only so many things you can do.

And there's a point to what n-ghost says about the Greater Basilisks, but I would not make the petrification any better(or edit the counter spell not to grant full immunity), but would add an effect to the attack that also can just stun the target, and that can be countered with a bunch of other higher level stuff(Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, Mirrored Eyes etc.) and restored with Remove Paralysis & Dispel magic etc.

[Demivrgvs]

Protection from Petrification

...turns all the basilisks in BG into total joke expfeast.

LOL This spell itself is a joke imo. It never existed, it's ridiculously OP (a 1st lvl spell granting immunity to a 6th lvl spell?) and the only reason it's there is to give players a convenient "win button" against monsters that should not be faced at all by low level parties (pretty much what Jarno says).

Greater basilisks are meant to be horrifying beasts that would send any party running all the way up to Icewind Dale and farther simply by waving tail a bit through fog of war. In BG, though, what's the only thought that player has seeing it? Right, 'free 7k exp for me, yey!'

I was just thinking yesterday about using the Greater Basilisk for MSIX, it tells a lot about the power level of this monster.

So, it makes me wonder if it's possible to make PfP grant not complete petrification immunity, but, say, make petrification stun people instead of turning them into stone?
...
This spell could also act as a ward vs disintegration, making it a semi-viable beholder counter.

Back then I planned to turn PfP into AD&D Gaze Reflection. The change wasn't much about balancing the spell (it would actually make it more powerful, except for the duration) but rather about making it usable for something more than just "ctrl-y basilisks".

The only way to make this spell balanced for a 1st lvl slot imo is making it grant something like +4 to saves vs. petrification/polymorph, but we would be replacing a never existed spell with another one. Within AD&D there was a 2nd lvl Protection from Paralysis spell (worked against hold and slow) but I'm not so fond of it, and it would not cover the original purpose of this spell within BG1.

Btw, do Protection from Petrification green scroll exist within BG1?

All this discussion makes me wanna share some thoughts I was having while working on alteration spells for the next beta (scheduled for either tonight or tomorrow).

Flesh to Stone (aka petrification)

For the next beta I wanted players to test the following:

- target is slowed for 3 rounds (no save)

- save vs. petrification (save penalty -2?) or be petrified

- use hold2 opcode instead of the original romance/party breaking opcode, and a dedicated sec type to "cure" it

 

Disintegrate

It currently has vanilla's save vs. spell. I was thinking to change it with save vs. polymorph, but it would make it less effective against warriors, and more effective against mages, albeit mages can rely on spell protections to protect from it (at least with SCS installed).

 

Alternatively, a save vs. breath could make sense to simulate the reflex save to avoid the disintegrating ray. This would make it equally effective against warriors and mages (with KR+SCS, vanilla saves were to much messed up for me to remember right now), and less effective against rogues.

 

Slow

It currently has vanilla's save vs. spell. Similarly to above, on one hand I'd like to change it with save vs. polymorph, otoh I don't know if I like the reduced effectiveness against warriors (save penalty back to vanilla -4 can cover it?) and increased effectiveness against spellcasters (MGoI and spell protection might cover it pretty well). What do you think?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Btw, do Protection from Petrification green scroll exist within BG1?

But you have to get to the Baldur's Gate, and you usually go through the Basilisk area to get there.

 

Flesh to Stone (aka petrification)

For the next beta I wanted players to test the following:

- target is slowed for 3 rounds (no save)

- save vs. petrification (save penalty -2?) or be petrified

- use hold2 opcode instead of the original romance/party breaking opcode, and a dedicated sec type to "cure" it

Seems good... but I would allow a save vs. petrified to be made after an time(5 rounds could be reasonable) so the effect won't last forever... but as that makes the whole thing far too mild effect, the spell should also inflict magic damage, say 10-20 points of damage, with saves vs half and so forth. All this if the first save if failed of course... so in a sense, it would be a slow poison.

[Ardanis]

Disintegrate

Agreed.

 

Slow

Change to polymorph. Wizards will largely ignore it anyway due to spell protections, but against warriors it is currently devastating. Not to mention a party-friendly AoE is a large bonus on its own. And we need more saves vs other types, not just spells, or even SR's spells/death/breath.

[kreso]

I'm not sure if this is the case right now or if it even should be handled by SR at all, but anyway: there's that little level one (or level two? Hell it's been long) spell called 'Protection from Petrification' that turns all the basilisks in BG into total joke expfeast.

 

Greater basilisks are meant to be horrifying beasts that would send any party running all the way up to Icewind Dale and farther simply by waving tail a bit through fog of war. In BG, though, what's the only thought that player has seeing it? Right, 'free 7k exp for me, yey!'

 

SCS makes basilisks a bit more threatening (they don't use gaze on protected characters, they prefer poison bite instead). There is a PnP conversion mod for BG1 called Fields of the Dead - this actually makes basilisk into what they should be (very dangerous beasts who kill anyone that comes near them with their breath). SCS also buffs Mutamin (gnome mage there) with several "Remove magic" castings so not all is "7k for me, yey" walk in the park.

 

I think a Pro Petrification scroll is available at Nashkel Fair area, but only one. There are a few at BG city as well. Probably more with some added content (UB and similar).

[Jarno Mikkola]

I think a Pro Petrification scroll is available at Nashkel Fair area, but only one. There are a few at BG city as well. Probably more with some added content (UB and similar).

It's Stone to Flesh scroll, and should be used on Branwen. Unless you install a pflahra of mods that can add things I don't know/remember.

[Dakk]

 

I think a Pro Petrification scroll is available at Nashkel Fair area, but only one. There are a few at BG city as well. Probably more with some added content (UB and similar).

It's Stone to Flesh scroll, and should be used on Branwen. Unless you install a pflahra of mods that can add things I don't know/remember.

 

There's one in Candlekeep too, IIRC. With BG1NPC Project there's also another way of getting a Stone to Flesh.

 

Jaheria strong arms Zeke into handing it over for free.

 

[Sergio]

---> Btw, do Protection from Petrification green scroll exist within BG1? <---

Yes. You have to go to the carnival area. The merchant that is selling them is inside tent number 6.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgate/walkthrough/carnival.php

[Demivrgvs]

Protection from Petrification

@Dakk, Sergio Thanks. Well, I need more time to think about this spell, but it's good to know there are other ways to somewhat manage BG1 basilisks.

 

@kreso ironically I was tackling AD&D Greater Basilisk yesterday while working on summons and I discovered about its poisonous breath (I thought it only inflicted poison with its bite). Does Fields of the Dead also added the breath effect? If yes, 5' radius cloudkill-like, another breath-like animation, or no animation?

 

Disintegrate

Agreed.

On what? Breath or polymorph?

 

Flesh to Stone

@Jarno I was with you until you mentioned "damage". This spell shared the same school, spell level, and role (save or die) of Disintegrate. All I did was aimed at making them as different as possible. FtS has to remain the "disabling" variant, with Disintegrate remain the "damage dealing" one.

 

Btw, these changes to Disintegrate and FtS are part of a bigger picture I had in mind ages ago and that 5th edition has partially implemented too: "remove" save or die spells. I don't want to open the pandora's box right now, but ideally I'd like most "save or die" spells to have less severe save penalties and/or be somewhat more counterable but remain appealing thanks to secondary effects.

 

Slow

@Arda I have one or two testers (of those who more actively help me) waiting my new build to start a new run, I guess I can "use them" to test this out.

 

On a side note, now that I use sec types to make Haste&Slow cancel each other I have a bunch of random ideas:

- if Slow doesn't trigger enough against warriors we can now make it cancel Haste even on a failed save (Haste already automatically cancel Slow)

- what about making Slow not counter Improved Haste? (It's a nice "buff" to IH for those players that feel I nerfed it too much)

- I think I can even make IH "cancel" and override normal Haste, while making sure the opposite doesn't happen