SR v4 (detailed list of changes - ongoing update)

[toxin]

Alternative, perhaps simpler solution: don't let FS and AS stack. You can only have one elemental Sheath up a a time. Have to most recently cast one replace the older one.

 

That would be great too.

 

Also I always thought that casting FA on an already affected character should dispel what it protects from, same for CC. I can't find any reason not to.

 

Agreed.

[kreso]

Alternative, perhaps simpler solution: don't let FS and AS stack. You can only have one elemental Sheath up a a time. Have to most recently cast one replace the older one.

(Though... can you do that on the old engine? Would it require opcode 321? Is that opcode in TobEx btw?)

 

You can do it with a (taa-daam) secondary type on old engine. Ofc, it would screw up AI since they use them in sequencers etc.

 

 

Also I always thought that casting FA on an already affected character should dispel what it protects from, same for CC. I can't find any reason not to.

 

Agreed.

Both of these spells are very powerful as they are I think. CC especially, Divine Remix had a better 5th level mind shield implementation (Impregnable Mind afaik) which was nowhere near the power of CC.

[subtledoctor]

 

Alternative, perhaps simpler solution: don't let FS and AS stack. You can only have one elemental Sheath up a a time. Have to most recently cast one replace the older one.

 

(Though... can you do that on the old engine? Would it require opcode 321? Is that opcode in TobEx btw?)

You can do it with a (taa-daam) secondary type on old engine. Ofc, it would screw up AI since they use them in sequencers etc.

 

I highly doubt they would put both in a sequencer very often. With AS being 5th level, that could only happen in Spell Triggers, and I have to believe there are better 5th and 6th-level spells the AI could load into sequencers, than Fire Shield. And frankly even if it did happen every once in a while, and a wizard only cast a Trigger with 2 protection spells, I suspect you would barely even notice what happened...

[kreso]

I highly doubt they would put both in a sequencer very often.

Defensive Stoneskin/2xFireshield sequencer isn't all that uncommon, especially if you play aggresively. SCS has "randomized" triggers and sequencers. (technically, they're not really "sequencers"). What they have is fully dependant on what is going on (in short, SCS cheats here).

If you play defensively, you are likely to get a 3x Skull trap to your face.

If you're agressive with debuffs, mage will likely have Stoneskin/Imp.Invis/Mirror image; Stoneskin/2xFireshield or similar.

If you have a high MR character, mages will use 3xLower Resistance trigger. If you don't, it can be a 3xChain Lighting or 3xFlesh to Stone etc.

 

With AS being 5th level, that could only happen in Spell Triggers

As far as AI is concerned, Mesthil's Acid Sheath is a 4th level spell; hence they're used strictly in sequencers (never Trigger), which every Yuan-ti mage has access to.

 

And frankly even if it did happen every once in a while, and a wizard only cast a Trigger with 2 protection spells, I suspect you would barely even notice what happened...

Yeah, that be cool - sequencer with stoneskin, and two fireshields that dispel each other. Wouldn't look very bright, to say the least.

[subtledoctor]

No, only one would cancel the other. So you would see the enemy instantly raise Stoneskin + Acid Sheath, or Stoneskin + Fire Shield. Given everything else going on in SCS fights, I would happily see that happen, in order to gain a reduction in stackable, non-dispellable "spam 'n' cheese."

[Ineth]

I too found the non-dispellable Acid/Fire Shield to be a major nuisance in SCS battles, since pretty much every lowly no-name mageling uses them.

 

Breach not dispelling them makes sense (it already does enough), but Pierce Shield - being such a high-level spell - probably should. (Not to mention that its name literally mentions "shields".)

 

And adding an extra mid-level spell which only dispells specific protections, would also be nice.

 

PS: The v4 beta link I have hasn't been updated in 6 months, is that correct? Is there a newer link?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Ineth

[subtledoctor]

Suggestion for Sleep:

 

In the wake-on-hit effect (spwi116D.spl), add a 6-second Slow, so the woken person doesn't immediately spring to their feat and attack, but instead spends a short time being groggy and slow.

[kreso]

Remember the annoyance of petrification effects? Romance endings, people crashing to no reason and similar?

Worry no more...

 

 

@Demi - this is how basilisk work with the petrification code I sent you.

[Demivrgvs]

@Kreso veery nice.

 

I too found the non-dispellable Acid/Fire Shield to be a major nuisance in SCS battles, since pretty much every lowly no-name mageling uses them.

 

Breach not dispelling them makes sense (it already does enough), but Pierce Shield - being such a high-level spell - probably should. (Not to mention that its name literally mentions "shields".)

Mmm, I don't want to start overcomplicating everything but what if Cone of Cold canceled Fire Shield?

 

It's super easy to do within EE but also doable on old engine now that Fire Shield sec type doesn't need to remain unchanged for Breach.

 

And adding an extra mid-level spell which only dispells specific protections, would also be nice.

Ages ago Pierce Magic did that, and that's why Pierce Shield isn't a "full Breach".

 

I guess we could give that feature back to PS, or we could use it to try improving either RRoR or Khelben's Whip.

 

Suggestion for Sleep:

 

In the wake-on-hit effect (spwi116D.spl), add a 6-second Slow, so the woken person doesn't immediately spring to their feat and attack, but instead spends a short time being groggy and slow.

It wouldn't work perfectly imo. A target might be immune to sleep effect but not slow (or viceversa).

[kreso]

 

Mmm, I don't want to start overcomplicating everything but what if Cone of Cold canceled Fire Shield?

I think this is overcomplicating indeed. Fire Shield shares a slot with uber-buffs like Stoneskin and Imp.Invisibility. It should be powerful. You can counter it in numerous ways - IR spears, ranged wepons, spells, Dispel magic. Buff with elemental resistance. With enough fighters bashing the mage, Fire Shield won't do that much damage before the mage is killed, even in melee.

Moreover, if you start going this route, you'll be cancelling more and more stuff...

 

We could do something to make the damn Stoneskin a bit less overwhelming however....

1) give it a sec type (might actually not be needed, Spirit Armor can be labeled as a specific protection, AI doesn't care and Breach removes both anyhow)

2) make dragon claws, Adamantine Golem fists and similar huge power creatures kill it instantly by removing sec.type of level 4 and below. We could even make a patch code that collects all STR=25 creatures and gives them this ability.

[Demivrgvs]

@Kreso I owe Mike a holiday here in Italy because he spent like 2 hours helping me out with github, and he still hasn't finished. Sooner or later we'll manage to upload that damn build.

 

Anyway, I don't have any problem with Stoneskin because unlike PfMW it isn't something that forces warriors to just stand there like idiots. It is super strong yes, almost OP, but you can use weapons/ammo with elemental dmg, you can use poison effects, or just tear it down with a hasted dual wielder... Similalry, I don't have any problem with Fire Shield, I suggested to make Cone of Cold cancel it because a player was begging for a "hard-counter", but even in its current state it has plenty of counters as you say (polearms work only with IR though).

 

Btw, how's Cone of Cold now with its super fast casting time? Is it appealing enough?

[kreso]

Btw, how's Cone of Cold now with its super fast casting time? Is it appealing enough?

It's a good spell.

[Ardanis]

Cone of Cold vs Fire Shield

 

I don't think it will underpower FS, rather it'll make CC more appealing in a competition for precious 5th level slots. Although I might be behind the train now, as far as per-level choices should go...

 

However, it does mean we'll then start considering the same for Ice Storm vs Incendiary Cloud, ADHW vs Entangle, etc.

[kreso]

However, it does mean we'll then start considering the same for Ice Storm vs Incendiary Cloud, ADHW vs Entangle, etc.

This. If you open up that box Ao only knows what will come out of it.

[kreso]

Speaking of Cold damage- Ice Storm has a no-save 50% MS reduction that is bugged to bypass MR.

Suggestion - allow a breath save for MS reduction, fix MR. This spell is just too good.