New Spells General Discussion

[Anomaly]

Mind Blank in NWN is able to protect all the party at once, that would make this spell more interesting than Chaotic Command and deserving its level 8 status.

 

What about some Enchanter's love? After all they don't get any spell beyond level 5. What about "Mass Charm" (8) and "Dominate Monster" (9) ?

 

There is also "Protection from spells" from NWN Enchantment (level 7), that gives +8 to saving throws to all allies. Not sure if it suits well the Enchantment school though.

[Salk]

IIRC, there is not a spell that really protects against psionic powers. In that case, I'd welcome the addition of one.

[Demivrgvs]

Mind Blank

Mind Blank in NWN is able to protect all the party at once, that would make this spell more interesting than Chaotic Command and deserving its level 8 status.

IIRC, there is not a spell that really protects against psionic powers. In that case, I'd welcome the addition of one.

SR's Chaotic Commad protects from all mind affecting psionic effects, but it doesn't protect from things like telekinesis and detonation, neither it should imo (not even Mind Blank).

 

On one hand having an 8th lvl spell work as a "mass" version of a 5th lvl one is fine (it indeed follows the +3 spell lvl "rule"), otoh Chaotic Commands actually is much more powerful than in PnP (though it's probably balanced in this particular environment as we also have all those non-PnP spells such as Breach to remove it) and having a single spell slot grant the entire party full immunity to all mind affecting abilities may be too much, no?

 

Enchantment school

What about some Enchanter's love? After all they don't get any spell beyond level 5. What about "Mass Charm" (8) and "Dominate Monster" (9) ?

You may have not noticed but SR already "added" quite a few spells to this school, because all Power Word spells now belong to this school as per 3E, I also turned Secret Word into a PW-like spell, and Sphere of Chaos too. That being said, Mass Charm is indeed planned for V4.

 

Dominate Monster is made obsolete by BG's Domination, which already does the same thing on a 5th lvl slot (for some reason they hugely changed their opinion on dominating spells power lvl in 3E, as moving it from 5th to 9th lvl is a HUGE leap). Am I missing something?

 

Protection from spells

There is also "Protection from spells" from NWN Enchantment (level 7), that gives +8 to saving throws to all allies. Not sure if it suits well the Enchantment school though.

We considered this but then I opted for a Greater Globe of Invulnerability, because the former would protect from too many effects not related to spells (aka not working as it should).

[Galactygon]

IIRC, there is not a spell that really protects against psionic powers. In that case, I'd welcome the addition of one.

Psionics are meant to be a family of special abilities with varying powers, and therefore a complete protection against ALL psionic powers would be like a complete protection against a different family of powers (like priest spells). Thatás why spells that protect against some forms of psionics (like domination) are considered powerful.

 

Dominate Monster is made obsolete by BG's Domination, which already does the same thing on a 5th lvl slot (for some reason they hugely changed their opinion on dominating spells power lvl in 3E, as moving it from 5th to 9th lvl is a HUGE leap). Am I missing something?

Domination spells in AD&D were meant to establish full control of their victims, while charm spells were supposed to change the victims' disposition towards the caster. Charm Person is a 1st level spell, Charm Monster is a 5th level spell (IIRC, I don't have the rulebooks in front of me). Domination (5th level) was meant to be restricted to humanoids, and give the caster full control. There are more powerful spells (Mass Charm, Mass Domination, Dominate Monster) at higher levels.

 

What makes these spells less usefull are the "immunity inflations" rampant in the game - by the time of ToB, almost every creature is immune to charms and dominations. Like hitpoint inflation, immunity inflation forces modders to make spells affect more hitpoints instead of reducing immunities and hitpoints. For example, there is a good reason why in 3E, they've changed all the power word spells to affect higher hitpoints.

 

Instead of immunities, I feel (and so does AD&D) lower level spells should affect a smaller berth of creatures, while higher level spells a larger berth. In other words, the immunities should be built into the spells themselves. You still wouldn't use a 5th level Domination spell against a dragon, but if you used a 9th level Dominate Monster instead, that would work. This way, enchanters and their spells wouldn't be written off so early in the game.

 

-Galactygon

[Ardanis]

You suggest to strip creatures of their opcode immunities? What about mod-added charm effects and immunities (possibly needed for bosses)? I don't think it can be handled nicely.

 

Domination - perhaps it can be made permanent and undispellable by normal means? Then dominating humanoids only on 5th level could be fine.

[Jarno Mikkola]

You suggest to strip creatures of their opcode immunities? What about mod-added charm effects and immunities (possibly needed for bosses)? I don't think it can be handled nicely.

I don't think that Galactygon was going to suggest removing the immunities in a single swoop with no backup...

 

Domination - perhaps it can be made permanent and undispellable by normal means? Then dominating humanoids only on 5th level could be fine.

Hmm, the undispellable actually sounds bad... on the players point of view... well, mine.

And then comes the question of what's humanoid and what's not. Are bears humanoid? As the game says it's not, but Sahuagin sure are humanoid. I can live without being able to command demons, dragons and slimes etc. with the spell, but ...

[Ardanis]

Domination - perhaps it can be made permanent and undispellable by normal means?

On the other hand, perhaps not. If there's no Break Enchantment memorized in party, then dominated PC is as good as game over.

Then just long duration - 5 turns, or maybe 10.

 

And then comes the question of what's humanoid and what's not.

I thought about the same group that Charm Person has for target..

[Anomaly]

By "Greater Globe of Invulnerability" you mean like the SR v3 "Spell shield" ? If you intend to restore somehow the original usage of Spell Shield, I will welcome this new spell as a replacement.

 

I always thought BG's Dominate only affected humanoids. Playing NWN strips you of basic knowledge of BG.

[Lawlight]

As you put some effort in ensuring that at least every specialist has something on each level, how about adding at least on wild mage spell per spelllevel?

[Demivrgvs]

As you put some effort in ensuring that at least every specialist has something on each level, how about adding at least on wild mage spell per spelllevel?

Man this is ironic, I was creating a new topic for new spells in this very instant!

 

Anyway, yes, I do planned to improve Wild Mage's spell selection too, but they are not my priority. I'm also going to suggest removing their spells (e.g. Reckless Dweomer) from the spell selection screen at lvl up. No mage can learn those spells anyway (and there shouldn't even be scrolls for those spells), not even generalist mage, they only take out precious space. Anyway, the list of possible wild spells additions could be:

3rd lvl - Miscast Magic

4th lvl - ? (neither Unluck nor There/Not There are really doable, but the former can be adapted)

5th lvl - Vortex (a magic based Whirlwind which affects only spellcasters)

6th lvl - Wildshield (similar to Spell Deflection but works vs AoE too even in PnP, and grants immunity to wild surges)

8th lvl - Wildzone (pratically a Mass Miscast Magic)

9th lvl - Wildfire (sort of Wish spell)

[Lawlight]

Some suggestions and random thoughts regarding wild magic:

 

2nd Level:

Hornung's Baneful Deflector EDIT

It's a bit like Physical Mirror, but it sends the missiles back randomly to creatures in a 15-foot radius (magical missiles from spells too). I'd like to see at least one of Hornung's spells, because he is one of the few "pseudo famous" Wild Mages.

 

3rd Level:

Miscast Magic

IR's changes to MM made it an excellent wild magic spell.

 

4th Level:

I have no Idea here either. As you said maybe a modified Unluck.

 

5th Level: EDIT

Vortex

As per Tome of Magic it deals less damage on nonmagical creatures (1d4 per lvl), but magical creatures and spellcaster suffer some more (1d6 per lvl).

 

6th Level: EDIT

Wildshield

This is really a must have imo.

Wildstrike

Overlaps with IR's Miscat Magic.

 

8th Level:

Wildzone

This could be hell of fun and turn every battlefield into a very chaotic area, because wild magic reigns there. Also a must have in my eyes.

Horung's Random Dispatcher

Basically nothing else than an alternate (but funny) form of imprisonment without a way back. Not very appealing.

 

9th Level: EDIT

Wildfire

It's too similar to Wish imo.

Stabilize

I like this one more. It's an aura around the caster. The caster and all creatures in the area of effect can cast and use magical items normally. This aura also counters Wildzone. Very very powerfull, but cool. Definitely on my wish list.

[Lawlight]

Generell suggestions:

 

Acid Storm

 

Suffocate EDIT

Creatures in the AoE suffer damage, attack and move half their normal rate (spellcasting time should get doubled too imo), suffer penalties on AC and attack rolls and lose all DEX combat bonuses (I don't know whether this is possible or not - I bet not) each round for x rounds if they fail the save. Creatures that do not breath are unaffected.

 

Seven-Eyes EDIT

This spell is a very versatile tool. I'm really in love with it. Each Eye has a defensive or offensive ability, but once either one is used the spell ends.

Eye of the Mind (protects against one mind affecting effect or can be used to cast Charm Person once)

Eye of the Sword (deflects one physical or missile attack or can be used to cast Magic Missiles once)

Eye of the Mage (can stop one manifestation of elemental damage or be used to cast Lightning Bolt once)

Eye of Venom (can halt any one attack or effect that could poison the caster or be used to inflict a poison to one creature)

Eye of the Spirit (parries one attack that affects the caster life energy like Energy Drain, stat drains etc. and even one instant death effect or can be used to cast Enervation)

Eye of the Artifice (deflects one direct magic attack or can be use to cast Dispel Magic once)

Eye of Stone (protects against one petrification attack or can be used to cast Hold Person once)

[Demivrgvs]

Hornung's Baneful Deflector

It's a bit like Physical Mirror, but it sends the missiles back randomly to creatures in a 15-foot radius (magical missiles from spells too). I'd like to see at least one of Hornung's spells, because he is one of the few "pseudo famous" Wild Mages.

Physical Mirror's opcode is hardcoded, and a random version is not doable. Furthermore the PnP version of this spell is balanced by working aginst missiles fired only from one direction (not 360°), which is another thing I cannot implement.

 

Vortex

As per Tome of Magic it deals less damage on nonmagical creatures (1d4 per lvl), but magical creatures and spellcaster suffer some more (1d6 per lvl).

Yeah, more or less what I had in mind, this is the spell I like the most together with Wildzone.

 

Wildshield

This is really a must have imo.

If you notice, it was on my list.

 

Wildstrike

Overlaps with IR's Miscat Magic.

That's why it wasn't on my list, furthermore it seems kinda weak considering two lvls later you get Wildzone doing the same in a Mass version which triggers again every round.

 

Wildzone

This could be hell of fun and turn every battlefield into a very chaotic area, because wild magic reigns there. Also a must have in my eyes.

I'm actually worried of the mess this spell could create, but balance wise I don't know how it performs, only playtesting could tell.

 

Horung's Random Dispatcher

Basically nothing else than an alternate (but funny) form of imprisonment without a way back. Not very appealing.

 

Wildfire

It's too similar to Wish imo.

Yeah, it's very similar to PnP Wish but not BG's Wish. BG's Wish doesn't let the caster create any lower lvl spell. That being said I'm not 100% how much appeal such a spell would have.

 

Stabilize

I like this one more. It's an aura around the caster. The caster and all creatures in the area of effect can cast and use magical items normally. This aura also counters Wildzone. Very very powerfull, but cool. Definitely on my wish list.

Not sure how much appealing it can be considering I don't there's a single Wild Mage in the game which could use Wildzone against you, and I don't think Miscast Magic is on top of SCS spellbook's priorities.

 

Acid Storm

I do thought about it, but the probelm of this spell is that it pretty much identical to Acid Fog (it even shares the smae spell lvl within 3E, which really puzzles me). Otoh, I may add it to the suggestion list for a 7th lvl spell slot a la AD&D, but slightly altered to work as a sort of Mass Vitriolic Sphere with 4 rounds duration (as all other Storm spells) instead of a stationary Acid Fog-like spell

 

Suffocate

Creatures in the AoE suffer damage, attack and move half their normal rate (spellcasting time should get doubled too imo), suffer penalties on AC and attack rolls and lose all DEX combat bonuses (I don't know whether this is possible or not - I bet not) each round for x rounds if they fail the save. Creatures that do not breath are unaffected.

Pretty much a damaging Slow spell. I'm not in love with this spell, but I guess I can add to the list and see if it manages to steal a spell slot to something else.

 

Seven-Eyes

This spell is a very versatile tool. I'm really in love with it. Each Eye has a defensive or offensive ability, but once either one is used the spell ends. ...

Implementing this spell would be a real nightmare. It would involve tweaking tons of other spells/abilities/attacks to make them interact with the eyes (e.g. every enchantment spell should have an EFF to remove the Eye of the Mind). Not to mention I wouldn't be able to handle its animation, as the IWD one can be exported with all eyes but I don't know how to make one eye disappear when necessary. Assuming that making the spell work in a flawless way is doable, and I don't think so (Eye of the Sword would require Stoneskin opcode, and all weapons should be patched to remove the eye and its once/day MM), it would take ages (litteraly) to make just this spell.

[Lawlight]

Stabilize

Not sure how much appealing it can be considering I don't there's a single Wild Mage in the game which could use Wildzone against you, and I don't think Miscast Magic is on top of SCS spellbook's priorities.

I can safely say that unloading the complete lvl 1 spellbook-side full of Nahal's Reckless Dweomer in a row without having to worry about wild surges can be very appealing. Wild Shield otoh offers the same, but fades relatively fast concidering that most likely it absorbs spells from hostile casters too.

 

Wildfire

Yeah, it's very similar to PnP Wish but not BG's Wish. BG's Wish doesn't let the caster create any lower lvl spell. That being said I'm not 100% how much appeal such a spell would have.

Then it all depends primarily on whether you decide to work on Wish or not.

 

Seven-Eyes

Implementing this spell would be a real nightmare.

I might have known it.