chuft Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 Can someone give me a clue about the Dudleyfix vs the Dudleymod? Does anyone use either? I tried figuring it out from the Dudleyville site, but it appears both the "Fix" and the "Mod" change mage and priest spells significantly, and in exactly the same way. Both seem to point to the same page for spell modifications. What do most people use for playing BG1 and TotSC if they aren't using Tutu? I am guessing "Baldurdash, PocketPlane BG1 Unfinished Business, and G3 Tweaks pack", is that accurate? I don't want to introduce more bugs than I am fixing if I reinstall and start over yet again.
Jarno Mikkola Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 What do most people use for playing BG1 and TotSC if they aren't using Tutu? I am guessing "Baldurdash, PocketPlane BG1 Unfinished Business, and G3 Tweaks pack", is that accurate? That's very loaded question. As there's BGT-WeiDU competing on the BG1intoBG2engine spot with EasyTutu, besides you are thinking about the G3 BG1 Tweak Packs, not the BG2's that has it's spot in most peoples eyes. There's also the Fields of the Dead mod, that adds a lot of minor content to the game, and it's the only mod that hasn't been covered by the BGT's or Tutu's. It also covers the spells selections and adds a few spells. Now, if you look at the Dudleyvilles page about the Fix and Mod, you actually see that the Fix doesn't edit any but one spell file, while the Mod takes the spells wands etc.
chuft Posted September 27, 2011 Author Posted September 27, 2011 That table is interesting. I confess it overwhelmed me. I was reading the general Dudleyfix page which said "Fixes many spells so that they increase in power, range or duration according to the level of the caster as described in your spell book. Most of them didn't, believe it or not. Additionally, friendly spells will now bypass magical resistance and Polymorph Self will transform you into creatures more comparable to the ones you encounter rather than weakened versions." http://forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/index.htm and also the Fixpacks download page which said, for Fixpack 1, "fixed Level 1-5 spells for mages; fixed scrolls for Level 1-5 mage spells; fixed Level 1-5 spells for priests including scrolls; fixed innate spells for PCs and NPCs; " http://forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/fixpacks.htm Fixpack #1 is described in such a way as to make it sound like it is a standard fixpack and not a modpack. There appears to be a separate page for modpacks, but the links to the spell sections seem to point to the same pages as the ones for the Fixpack spell fixes. The mage spells page says: "This page was originally part of the fixes but as it incorporates substantial alteration to the game's spells so I decided to move the files into a separate ModPack. " http://forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_spells.htm I guess this is the source of the confusion, as it appears that the spells stuff was moved to a modpack, but it still listed on the Fixpacks page as a component of Fixpack #1. So I am not sure whether Fixpack #1 includes spells changes or not. Having friendly spells not be foiled by magic resistance (I use Viconia a lot and this is a really annoying issue) seems more like a fix than a mod, I am not sure why some of this stuff was moved to a modpack (if indeed it was - how can I tell what is actually in Fixpack #1?).
plainab Posted September 27, 2011 Posted September 27, 2011 you can tell what is in each of Dudley's fixpack files by extracting them to any directory outside of the game directory. you can then us NI or DLTCEP to compare between his files and the unmodified game to see what it is that he changed. Since you are looking at Dudley, I'm now curious if you have had any of Dudley's fixes installed on the game setup mentioned here. If you did, it is very well likely that a conflict between Dudley & the fixpack by myself or perhaps the tweak pack is causing some of the issues you've been seeing....
chuft Posted September 28, 2011 Author Posted September 28, 2011 No, I have never installed a Dudley anything. I have downloaded them in case I wanted to try them on another install of BG eventually. Incidentally I just opened Dudleyfix #1 with WinRAR to see what was in there, and sure enough it includes all the cleric and mage spells listed here http://forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_file_list.htm as being changed only in the modpack, i.e. that chart is wrong. They are indeed also changed in the Fixpack #1, as it says in the Fixpack page. I guess this statement "This page was originally part of the fixes but as it incorporates substantial alteration to the game's spells so I decided to move the files into a separate ModPack. " really means he decided to copy the files into a separate ModPack so you could install them without installing the FixPack. As things stand, if you install Fixpack 1, you get the "ModPack" spell changes along with it.
chuft Posted September 28, 2011 Author Posted September 28, 2011 Well I just visited a temple and noticed Raise Dead scrolls for sale, and they said they cost a permanent constitution point. This is mentioned in the Dudleyfix for spells: "SPPR504.SPL, DIALOG.TLK string 12326 Dialog Error 1. Raise Dead (SCRL63) [PHB] 1. Range description should be 30 yards; range should be 90. 2. Casting speed should be 10. 3. Added -1 permanent Constitution bonus effect. 4. Scroll should be cast at Level 10." This kind of thing really belongs in a mod, not a fix. Dudleyville makes it sound like these spell changes were moved from the Fixpacks to the Modpacks but they weren't, I installed just the Fixpacks and here I have this obnoxious change. I fear I shall have to uninstall yet again and get rid of all the Dudley stuff. I just wanted to have friendly spells bypass magic resistance, but it looks like the Dudleyfixes made MAJOR changes in the most important spells and temple functions. Irritating.
chuft Posted September 28, 2011 Author Posted September 28, 2011 Yup just tested it, sent Montaron out alone from the Beregost Temple to get killed at the east map edge, which he did. I went inside the temple with everyone and Raised him by paying the priest. Not only did he lose a CON point, but his 1 hit point Raised self reappeared on the map where he died, not in the Temple! Obviously this can cause major problems, since if you Raise someone, they do not show up with the party, they show up with 1 hit point right in the midst of whatever killed them the first time, far away from the party. Guess I have to uninstall yet again and get rid of all the Dudley stuff. Seems like it's full of "gotchas" and I don't trust it.
plainab Posted September 28, 2011 Posted September 28, 2011 Yup just tested it, sent Montaron out alone from the Beregost Temple to get killed at the east map edge, which he did. I went inside the temple with everyone and Raised him by paying the priest. Not only did he lose a CON point, but his 1 hit point Raised self reappeared on the map where he died, not in the Temple! Obviously this can cause major problems, since if you Raise someone, they do not show up with the party, they show up with 1 hit point right in the midst of whatever killed them the first time, far away from the party. Guess I have to uninstall yet again and get rid of all the Dudley stuff. Seems like it's full of "gotchas" and I don't trust it. wow! i've never heard of 'em being raised where they died at... in my games they were always raised with the rest of the party. Also there is nothing in the description of either the spell or the raised dead scroll (which triggers the spell) that talks about the dead character losing 1 point of constitution. Also, there is nothing in the temple stores stating such either (they just trigger the spell too). I'm not sure where Dudley pulled this from. Perhaps it was a misprint in the manual OR it was a PnP thing that he chose to add.
chuft Posted September 29, 2011 Author Posted September 29, 2011 It's a P&P thing. He notes that on his page of changes by putting [PHB] next to the spell which means "Player's Hand Book" one of the core P&P books. It is accurate for P&P. But a lot of P&P DMs did not enforce it, or gave characters ways to get CON points back, or even just encouraged people to just roll up a new character if they died, especially in low level campaigns where they would quickly catch up, since P&P campaigns are more or less endless and ongoing and you can add or subtract characters (and players!) anytime. Losing a CON point from a high level character in the middle of a fixed length computer game, where you can't just roll up a new character, or have a forgiving human DM make accommodations for it, etc. is a totally different story.
chuft Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 I am still trying to figure out the Dudley site. It's as if it was abandoned halfway through the middle of changing the Spells fixes/mods. Does anyone use these fixes/mods? I backed away from them as soon as I realized they made Raise Dead cost you a CON point each time. I am wondering if other fixes are worth using and somehow this Raise Dead one can be excluded. On the main Dudleyfix page, http://www.forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/fixpacks.htm , there is a list of fixes in separate categories, then below are numbered combo packs, one of which includes all the spell changes. The spell changes, oddly, are not in the initial list of categories but are in Fixpack #1. In the Fixpack #1 section there is a link on the right to a list of Mage spell changes. Strangely there is no link to the Priest and Innate spell changes. However if you go to the Mage spell change list, where it says the spell changes are now considered a "mod" and not a "fix" (despite remaining in Fixpack #1) you can access the Priest spell changes via the menu on the left, and get to this page: http://www.forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_spells_2.htm On this Mod page http://www.forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_tweaks.htm it appears there is a separate modpack for priest spells, but there is no link to it, nor is the link to its description enabled - presumably the link in the paragraph above, http://www.forgottenwars.com/dudleyfix/bg1_spells_2.htm It seems like the modder (Dudley?) was in the midst of moving all the spell changes to separate mod packs, but stopped halfway, leaving all of them in Fixpack #1 and never making a separate Modpack for Priest and Innate spells. The two Spell pages each say "This page was originally part of the fixes but as it incorporates substantial alteration to the game's spells so I decided to move the files into a separate ModPack. " Yet no modpack for Priest spells exists. Does anyone know what happened with Dudleyville? Also, I read a remark on an old Tutu page that said Tutu used the Dudleyfixes. Does that mean Raise Dead in Tutu costs a permanent CON point as per Dudleyfixpack #1? Or are they talking about the categorical fixes listed at the top of the Fixpacks page (which don't include spell changes), before the numbered packs, which do include the spell changes?
chuft Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Also if someone would tell me what the heck "Tutu" means, I would be grateful. I know it's BG1 using the BG2 engine; but naming it after a South African politician, or a ballet dancer outfit, seems rather odd.
plainab Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Also if someone would tell me what the heck "Tutu" means, I would be grateful. I know it's BG1 using the BG2 engine; but naming it after a South African politician, or a ballet dancer outfit, seems rather odd. it is the mod author's short form of saying To Two.
plainab Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Also, I read a remark on an old Tutu page that said Tutu used the Dudleyfixes. Does that mean Raise Dead in Tutu costs a permanent CON point as per Dudleyfixpack #1? Or are they talking about the categorical fixes listed at the top of the Fixpacks page (which don't include spell changes), before the numbered packs, which do include the spell changes?what it means by tutu using dudleyfixes: the mod author used those changes from dudley that they felt were necessary to the game. and by so doing, the mod author wants to ensure that the player does not try to install dudley's fixes before or after the conversion process. I only use dudley's stuff as a reference. I do not actually use his modifications. Some I have recoded for use in the fixpack that I was working on and have picked back up. Others I modify differently, if there is an existing popular weidu mod that 'fixes' something and is done differently than dudley I tend to stick with what the popular weidu mod does (easier to take their code for the fixpack and they can later drop it once the fixpack is considered ready for full public release). There are people who do like his modifications tho and there have been some mods that require it (can't think of one at the moment)
chuft Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks for the information. There is a surprising amount of IE fixing and modding stuff floating around and it can be hard to get a handle on it. Actually I am kind of dreading trying to figure out what the fix/mod situation is for BG2 and for IWD....I suspect I will be buried in a sea of questions about what is compatible with what, install order, etc.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.