forklift Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 ive been kind of itching to play BG again; the last time i played was 2005 or so; i played with the baldurdash fixpack and all the weidu stuff: tactics, ease-of-use, ascension, and longest road (i think? the one where you get irenicus at the beginning of TOB.) i think i may try this newfangled BG1-plus-BG2-altogether thing. it looks like there's two systems for it, Tutu and BGT. so that's the first decision i have to make. what are the pros and cons of them? i tried searching but couldn't really find anything comprehensive. secondly, it looks like baldurdash has been replaced and updated with the G3 fixpack and tweakpack. that's cool. i want that. thirdly, it looks like all the weidu stuff in general is pretty deprecated. is that right? in any case, i think i'll try this sword coast strategems mod in place of tactics, because i like the philosophy behind it. i still want ascension; what happens with the sendai and balthazar stuff? some mods cover them and some mods dont, if i recall correctly? since i'm going to be playing BG1 through TOB in one playthrough with either Tutu or BGT, i'll want the fixes and tweaks for BG1 as well. i'd like some additional content, some quests and items and tactical fights. but i don't want to be way overpowered because ive done a ton of third-party content, and have like level 6 spells before fighting sarevok (which is now a concern because of playing Tutu/BGT) i'm not sure about additional NPCs, but if there are any really high quality ones, i would be open to the idea. so with all of these things i would like to include in this install of BG/2/TOB, how should i go about doing this? i am completely lost, because there are like 3+ mod communities for the infinity engine games, and there are a bunch of mods that claim to be compilations (what's the BIG pack? seems like that's BGT + stuff? is that the way i should go if i want the above mods?), and i have no idea what's compatible with what, and what order i should install things in. i couldn't find a BIG NEWBIES' GUIDE or anything like that; is there one i should read that's up to date? thanks!
Azazello Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 This is really too big a topic for anyONE to give you the be-all-to-end-all answers. ALOT has changed since 2005, and it's gonna take time for you to read, review, and finally decide how you want to play the expanded game. Sorry, I know it's seems daunting but believe me it's worth it to do the research (and searching) and design a modded game as you would like. I know you wanna jump in and play, so here are some leads-- Right in this forum, General Mod Discussion,you'll find plenty of discussions about these exact same topics. Interestingly, here's one below this thread: http://forums.gibber...showtopic=23880 Here's a recent one on SHS, which I personally feels is the way to get back into the game (pun intended): http://www.shsforums...the-first-time/ Wanna know more about TuTu? Gotta go to (G3, and) Pocket Plane Group site. You'll find the proper forum for it. Wanna know more about BGT? Gotta go to Spellholdstudios site.You'll find the proper forum for it. Wanna know more about mega-installs? Gotta go to Spellholdstudios site. Look for the 'Mega Mod Help' forum. And please-- don't open new threads about questions you have. I know, I know, it's sooo tempting. But consider--every single question you have about these methods have been asked already--many in recent threads. Read existing threads first. Search for others. If you still can't grasp it all... Go Simple: pick a single method (Tutu, BGT, manual, whatever), add the barest minimum mods, PLAY! While you're gaming, you can continue to read and get a better idea of what's going. If anything, use this thread as your "I have a question" thread. Hope this doesn't sound to discouraging, I meant no offense. I like new(ish) players, I want everyone to play! Take it slow, do the homework, you'll be well-rewarded.
grogerson Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Welcome, forklift. I agree with Azazello. Do a little bit of homework before jumping into adding mods. It'll save a lot of time uninstalling/reinstalling if you put in something you don't like. Regarding items 1 and 5, BGT and Tutu/EasyTutu are actually BG2 mods. BG1 mods like Baldurdash and BG1 Tweaks won't work and should not be used. The necessary Baldurdash fixes are pretty much already incorporated into their installations. Regarding item 3, either I miss your meaning, or you're far from the mark. Almost all mods now are WeiDU, and deprecated means something has been removed or made obsolete (as happens with Tweak Pack components that become unnecessary when incorporated into another component). As for me, I'm a minority player. I prefer playing BG1, not BGT or Tutu. There are still some of us around. So if you decide to go this route there's still help about.
Aion Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Regarding item 3, either I miss your meaning, or you're far from the mark. Almost all mods now are WeiDU, and deprecated means something has been removed or made obsolete (as happens with Tweak Pack components that become unnecessary when incorporated into another component). I think he means the mods at Weidu.org, like Tactics, Ease Of Use, Solaufein, Valen, Ascension, etc. And yes, those haven't really been worked on in a long while. The author (and creator of WeiDU) left a long time ago, and the WeiDU software's being maintained by the bigg. Not sure about the other mods there. BG1Tutu (I'd use EasyTutu) is essentially playing BG1 in the BG2 engine, so taking advantage of BG2's features (kits, etc). BGT (Baldur's Gate Trilogy) is BG1 and BG2 in one game, allowing you to play through it in one go without having to import your character and all that into BG2. I have never tried BGT, so I can't comment on that. My best friend assures me that it works fine, however. I have tried EasyTutu and I love it, it works well. Installing BG1 NPC Project for Tutu from Gibberlings 3 (yes, this site) will make the BG1 NPC's talk and stuff like in BG2 (since it's BG1 being played in BG2 engine). I can't help you more than that. It seems like you want mainly tactical mods, and I don't like nor play those. Some links to help you out: http://www.spellholdstudios.net http://www.gibberlings3.net http://www.pocketplane.net http://www.blackwyrmlair.net http://www.rpgdungeon.net http://imoen.blindmonkey.org/ http://www.petalsand...horns/index.php http://weidu.org/ http://volcanoproduc...s.blogspot.com/
forklift Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 i guess my philosophy on gaming (and life) is a bit different from most people in this community. i don't want to micromanage everything. part of the experience is the surprise and the reveal. when i buy a new game i don't choose which spells and which NPCs and which quests are going to be available in the game--i just play it like the designers intended. now obviously with the BG series nowadays, it's all third party modding and everything's more fractured, so i understand that there's no "consensus." but i've played the original enough times to know it too well, and so now i'm looking for, essentially, a brand new experience. i'm not trying to replay a game slightly differently, knowing exactly the things i want to cherry pick (outside of a handful of things). i also don't have a ton of time to be reading 5 different forums and trying to figure out every little thing. and everybody seems to be too careful to not insult other mod makers; there are no community ratings for anything, so i have no idea what's good and what's not good. there has to be SOME kind of objective feedback from the community on popular and less popular mods. i remember NWNvault had ratings for everything and then the people like me who weren't super involved in the community could just download the top ones, rather than spending a ton of time doing "research" for a videogame. i can't even find a straight list of the actual differences between tutu and BGT. why has nobody created a page or post that does exactly this? from what i gather, structurally, Tutu takes the BG1 game resources and puts them in the BG2 engine; so you play Tutu instead of BG1; then you import it into BG2. so all you're really modifying is the BG1 experience, leaving BG2 the same. meanwhile, BGT takes the BG1 resources and puts it into your BG2 install, having all the BG1 stuff in the tutorial? for NPCs that exist in both original games, i'm assuming your level up choices in BGT carry over to when you're in BG2 content; is this true for Tutu? probably not, right? can someone list the downsides to BGT, or point me to a page about it? i think i would prefer to have it feel like a unified game, since i'm looking for a new experience, but if there are some crazy downsides i would like to know! basically i'm thinking of these mods: BGT BG1 fixpack (doesn't seem to exist?) BG1 tweakpack BG2 fixpack BG2 tweakpack BG1 unfinished business BG2 unfinished business Oversight Spell Revisions level 1 NPCs SCS SCSII ascension longer road, maybe--is this compatible with redemption? same author right? is one supposed to be the update of the other? they're both listed at the SHS as "green" but there's no explanation for their interaction. (SHS forums are down so i can't read the thread) one or two quality third party NPCs--any suggestions? like i said, i can't seem to find a rating system, and every moddign community has a list of like 10+ NPCs so i have no idea which are good and which aren't a few polished third party questlines so i guess my main questions are: 1. which are the most commonly agreed-upon high quality third party NPCs, and third party questlines? 2. what order should i install all of the above in?
lynx Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I suggest you also use the Item Randomiser. It will render a lot of your memories useless. NPCs: Amber! - if you don't like them verbose, I suggest Tyris Flare, - if you like them verbose: Kelsey (sorcerer), Keto (bard), Xan (choice of mage varieties), - if you like them overpowered: Soulafein, Valen, Chloe, Varshoon (mind flayer)
forklift Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 I suggest you also use the Item Randomiser. It will render a lot of your memories useless. oof, that sounds like trouble haha. if it were manually and carefully rebalanced or moved around, i'd give it a shot. but random? i don't know, i like the idea of big battles giving big rewards. twisted rune not giving staff of the magi or temple district thugs not giving celestial fury would be kind of a letdown. not sure it's for me! NPCs:Amber! - if you don't like them verbose, I suggest Tyris Flare, - if you like them verbose: Kelsey (sorcerer), Keto (bard), Xan (choice of mage varieties), - if you like them overpowered: Soulafein, Valen, Chloe, Varshoon (mind flayer) thanks, i'll give them a look! i definitely would like suggestions, even if they're just completely personal ones.
grogerson Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I was part of the open beta testing of BGT. It's close to the original, with a few changes to make the story more cohesive with BG2, including a transition when you finish. If you're a purist, that's the biggest down side. I will reiterate something. If you choose BGT (or Tutu) you cannot use BG1 Tweaks or the BG1 Fixpack. They are for "vanilla" BG1 only. Fixpacking is already done, and the BG2 Tweaks has pretty much the same components as BG1 Tweaks, and more. If you choose "vanilla" BG1, look for posts by plainab. A link to his site is in his signature.
DavidW Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 There is virtually no difference between Tutu and BGT now. The only real question is whether you want a unified game or not. (I don't, personally.) If you do, play BGT. If not, play Tutu. Most of Oversight (perhaps not all) has by now been absorbed into or superseded Fixpack, Tweakpack, or SCSII. The BG1 NPC project (on this site) adds NPC interactions, quests and the like to the BG1 NPCs so as to bring their level of content about up to BG2's NPCs. It's downloadable from www.gibberlings3.net and works with Tutu or BGT. Since you made a plea for not-too-polite information, I'd suggest being a bit cautious of Longer Road, both because it's old and not maintained, and because its writing, while quite good as narrative, makes for a rather railroaded playing experience. I'll abuse the privilege of commenting to mention my "Wheels of Prophecy" (on www.gibberlings3.net) , which rearranges ToB a bit, but in a fairly low-key way (if you're looking for massive changes, you'll be disappointed).
Wisp Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I suggest you also use the Item Randomiser. It will render a lot of your memories useless. oof, that sounds like trouble haha. if it were manually and carefully rebalanced or moved around, i'd give it a shot. but random? i don't know, i like the idea of big battles giving big rewards. twisted rune not giving staff of the magi or temple district thugs not giving celestial fury would be kind of a letdown. not sure it's for me! Well, if you like knowing in advance what you will receive (and there is nothing wrong with that) it probably is not for you. However, big battles do yield big rewards, even with Item Randomiser. In fact, I would venture to say the notable encounters are generally more rewarding with the mod, since you find fewer (or no) powerful items just lying around free for the taking.
forklift Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 There is virtually no difference between Tutu and BGT now. The only real question is whether you want a unified game or not. (I don't, personally.) If you do, play BGT. If not, play Tutu. A couple years ago when I was thinking about playing again (but eventually gave up due to the level of complexity and difficulty in setting up mods), I remember reading that one of the two had better graphics? Or something? I don't really mind too much, but is that still true? Most of Oversight (perhaps not all) has by now been absorbed into or superseded Fixpack, Tweakpack, or SCSII. Ok, cool, one fewer mod to install. Shouldn't Oversight just be completely absorbed and then deprecated? The mod author could be credited on the others. Would make it easier for people like me haha. The BG1 NPC project (on this site) adds NPC interactions, quests and the like to the BG1 NPCs so as to bring their level of content about up to BG2's NPCs. It's downloadable from www.gibberlings3.net and works with Tutu or BGT. Will definitely get that too then. Thanks! Since you made a plea for not-too-polite information, I'd suggest being a bit cautious of Longer Road, both because it's old and not maintained, and because its writing, while quite good as narrative, makes for a rather railroaded playing experience. Good, this is the type of info I'd like to get a lot of! I'm pretty sure I played LR the last time, and I definitely enjoyed the massively powerful Jon Irenicus being like 5 or 6 levels above the rest of the party and flinging spells like nothing, but I'm down for something new then. I'll abuse the privilege of commenting to mention my "Wheels of Prophecy" (on www.gibberlings3.net) , which rearranges ToB a bit, but in a fairly low-key way (if you're looking for massive changes, you'll be disappointed). Yeah I looked into that. I think I'll get it. It doesn't seem to have any downsides. Any recommendations on quest mods or NPC mods?
forklift Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 I was part of the open beta testing of BGT. It's close to the original, with a few changes to make the story more cohesive with BG2, including a transition when you finish. If you're a purist, that's the biggest down side. not a purist, just looking for a fun, balanced, new game experience! BGT sounds like the choice now. I will reiterate something. If you choose BGT (or Tutu) you cannot use BG1 Tweaks or the BG1 Fixpack. They are for "vanilla" BG1 only. Fixpacking is already done, and the BG2 Tweaks has pretty much the same components as BG1 Tweaks, and more. oh duh, of course, sorry. yeah that takes them off the list then. If you choose "vanilla" BG1, look for posts by plainab. A link to his site is in his signature. i've been trying to get a couple of my friends to play the BG series for a while--i want them to have a "purist" but cleaned up experience--at least the first time through--so i think i will want to look into set of instructions for a fixed/tweaked BG1 and then a fixed/tweaked BG2, but with very few crazy changes. but that's for another time.
Azazello Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 i guess my philosophy on gaming (and life) is a bit different from most people in this community. i don't want to micromanage everything. part of the experience is the surprise and the reveal. when i buy a new game i don't choose which spells and which NPCs and which quests are going to be available in the game--i just play it like the designers intended. now obviously with the BG series nowadays, it's all third party modding and everything's more fractured, so i understand that there's no "consensus." but i've played the original enough times to know it too well, and so now i'm looking for, essentially, a brand new experience. i'm not trying to replay a game slightly differently, knowing exactly the things i want to cherry pick (outside of a handful of things). i also don't have a ton of time to be reading 5 different forums and trying to figure out every little thing. and everybody seems to be too careful to not insult other mod makers; there are no community ratings for anything, so i have no idea what's good and what's not good. there has to be SOME kind of objective feedback from the community on popular and less popular mods. i remember NWNvault had ratings for everything and then the people like me who weren't super involved in the community could just download the top ones, rather than spending a ton of time doing "research" for a videogame. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but some of what you're saying doesn't jive with what you're asking. You want to play the game "the designers intended"--but you want to include Spell Revisions and the SCSs in your list. You want opinions on "good", "polished", and "popular" mods--yet I think you already recognize that that's not how we roll in the BG community. We don't avoid rating mods out of politeness or political-correctness. It's simply been recognized--by consensus if you wish--that opinions ultimately mean squat: if you who want to play a mod, screw someone else's arbitrary rating. I have no idea what the NWN scene is like, but apparently we don't have that here. I don't see this philosophy changing, and I guarantee you, if anyone tried to push a ratings agenda, they will not get far throughout the communities. Since you don't or can't invest the time, let me leave you with a few more pointers. Since I also value my time for more meaningful pursuits, this is probably my final contributions to the thread... Your list is a good start in terms of getting back into playing. It'll be a good platform to expand with other mods when and if you're ready. One way of deciding which mods to install is to create a Theme. Yours apparently is staying close to the designers' intentions. Ok... Another could be to have a certain collection of NPCs--or all of them. Another could be based on tactics and how they can be used in battles. Another could be on seeing how far a particular Kit works throughout the game. The choices are endless. In terms of the proper install order for your list (and suggestions of other mods to consider), there's a method that was created that does almost exactly what you want-- provides a listing of many mods, how and where to install them, provides extensions for correcting bugs before the mods are install -- almost everything is already done for you. Except for providing ratings... It's called BiG World Project (BWP). It originally started as a way to add nearly all mods in one install; it's since grown to be a preferred install order method, a means of automatically applying bugfixes, and allows you to install as few or as many mods as you like. It can get you started with the bare minimum amount of effort or 'research'. Be sure to get a copy of the BWP (install) Guide, plenty of good info there. I won't provide links, as Jarno will be here soon to give you all the info you need to know about BWP, lol. Not bad for an old 'videogame' like this one, hmm?
Dakk Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Just from the top of my mind, the mods I'd really consider ubiquitous are: BGT BG1 NPC Project BG2Tweakpack Item- & Spell Revisions SCS(I & II) Rogue Rebalancing .. and there's a whole bunch of others I swear by and use (aTweaks, Aurora. L1NPC, UB, and a whole slew of others) - but the ones I mentioned up top are awesome for everyone (YMMV)!
forklift Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but some of what you're saying doesn't jive with what you're asking. You want to play the game "the designers intended"--but you want to include Spell Revisions and the SCSs in your list. yes, you are reading it wrong. i have already played BG and BG2 the way the designers intended. now i want to play it again, the way the modders intend. when i go see a movie, i may watch a trailer, check the review sites like rottentomatoes, take into account the actors, the genre, the director, and then buy a ticket and watch it. it has a singular vision, and im going to judge it on its merits. i don't want to go into the theater, and fill out a questionnaire about whether i'd like the happy or alternative sad ending that a third party director re-shot, whether i like gore or not, whether i'd like the explicit or tasteful love scene, whether i'd like a 20-minute sideplot about the best-friend character, etc., etc. and then i don't want to go on a computer and surf 5 message boards and post threads and dig up threads from 5 years ago (which may no longer apply since these side scenes have been re-shot and re-added to the movie) to figure out which features conflict with each other. maybe the happy ending doesnt make any sense with the sideplot, but i wouldn't know without doing research. and then people at the theater (sometimes politely, sometimes icily) insinuate that if i don't spend a bunch of time doing research, i don't deserve to enjoy the movie. and by then, this whole process has become a headache and i'm not sure it's even worth watching the movie. i've had the whole thing spoiled for me anyway. what i would honestly prefer is for someone to make THEIR complete, comprehensive version of a modded BG/BG2; maybe he would put in the most popular mods, or maybe he has a theme in mind. that would provide for a singular unified vision. he could either package it into one download, or provide clear directions for it, and then i could read reviews of this version of the BG experience and other peoples' versions, and decide which one i'd like, and then download and play it. of course you could offer some choices at install that probably ARE best left up to the player, but mostly, it would be a good jump-off point. this is the "designer" i was talking about. this person would be essentially taking over the role of david gaider or whoever, and helping to make a complete finished product for the end user to enjoy. does that make sense? i'm not trying to dismiss the philosophy of the modding community for BG/BG2, i'm just trying to express what i'd like out of the experience. if you're insulted, i'm sorry, but that was not my intention. We don't avoid rating mods out of politeness or political-correctness. It's simply been recognized--by consensus if you wish--that opinions ultimately mean squat: if you who want to play a mod, screw someone else's arbitrary rating. I have no idea what the NWN scene is like, but apparently we don't have that here. I don't see this philosophy changing, and I guarantee you, if anyone tried to push a ratings agenda, they will not get far throughout the communities. probably because you're creating content for yourselves, which is perfectly fine. but for an outsider, the complete lack of direction is quite daunting. and that's why i've made a thread, to supplicate myself to the regulars in the community and ask for some guidance. sorry if that offends you. Since you don't or can't invest the time, let me leave you with a few more pointers. Since I also value my time for more meaningful pursuits, this is probably my final contributions to the thread... Your list is a good start in terms of getting back into playing. It'll be a good platform to expand with other mods when and if you're ready. i'm not going to expand with other mods. a playthrough of this game will take me months, as i work a lot, and have too much on my plate already so i don't even have that much free time. when i'm done with this playthrough, i probably won't want to play it again for 5 or more years. by then, everything will have changed again, just like it's changed since 2005. and i'll have to go through a bunch of forums and suffer snarky responses by people like you again. In terms of the proper install order for your list (and suggestions of other mods to consider), there's a method that was created that does almost exactly what you want-- provides a listing of many mods, how and where to install them, provides extensions for correcting bugs before the mods are install -- almost everything is already done for you. Except for providing ratings... It's called BiG World Project (BWP). It originally started as a way to add nearly all mods in one install; it's since grown to be a preferred install order method, a means of automatically applying bugfixes, and allows you to install as few or as many mods as you like. great. that's perfect. i'll look into that. thank you! just out of curiosity, how was someone like me supposed to know BWP is what i was looking for? which forum has that stickied at the top?
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