Rhaella Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I don't really use many non-NPC mods (I'm lucky when I bother to use the official patches after a reinstall, which is horribly stupid of me, but oh well), so I can't really help you there except for saying that some of the kit-based mods (Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, Divine Remix) are very nice. Not sure if they're compatible with other stuff generally considered important... I've heard that Divine Remix isn't but I don't really know. As far as NPCs go, it's really impossible to recommend stuff if we don't know what you like to begin with. So much of this is subjective. I know you don't want to be spoiled, but if you could at least say what you want in an NPC -- new battles, cool items, crazy subplots, extremely good writing, romance, friendship, realistic vs. idealized romance, higher alignment vs. lower alignment -- it would at least give us some clue as to where to begin.
Aion Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 This line makes me wonder... a playthrough of this game will take me months, as i work a lot, and have too much on my plate already so i don't even have that much free time. when i'm done with this playthrough, i probably won't want to play it again for 5 or more years. by then, everything will have changed again, just like it's changed since 2005. If you're only going to do one playthrough and then quit for 5 years, why are you going through all this trouble now? probably because you're creating content for yourselves, which is perfectly fine. but for an outsider, the complete lack of direction is quite daunting I think you're too dependent on the opinions of others. If Rottertomatoes says the movie sucks, do you automatically not watch it? Who knows, your opinion may differ from theirs. You might LOVE the movie. You just need to watch/try it. Information is present for mods, but yes, the forums and descriptions usually do not spoil the entire thing. I disagree that it's completely lacking direction and description... We all found these websites, forums and mods, and most people understand what it's about, and seem capable of finding what they're looking for. You apparently don't, or you just haven't searched much and decided to let others do your research. So maybe part of the problem is you? Not saying it to offend you, I'm just stating a fact. Don't get me wrong, asking for recommendations and/or information is alright. But be adventurous, look around, try mods to see if they're good. If they aren't, uninstall them. We can't possibly provide you with tons of ratings and reviews. That's something you'll have to discover for yourself, which mods YOU personally prefer. If you don't have the time for that, then I'm afraid that's just too bad. I'd say try some you like the look of. If you don't like them, uninstall them. If you don't want to do this, then I guess you'll be spending time doing something other than replaying BG. And I agree with Rhaella. You're not really expressing yourself clearly. Rather, you're being quite vague and confusing. Whether this is a language barrier (not sure where you're from) or something else, I don't know. Just try to clearly express what kind of mods you want, and what you'd like to see IN them, like Rhaella described.
forklift Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 I don't really use many non-NPC mods (I'm lucky when I bother to use the official patches after a reinstall, which is horribly stupid of me, but oh well), so I can't really help you there except for saying that some of the kit-based mods (Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, Divine Remix) are very nice. Not sure if they're compatible with other stuff generally considered important... I've heard that Divine Remix isn't but I don't really know. As far as NPCs go, it's really impossible to recommend stuff if we don't know what you like to begin with. So much of this is subjective. I know you don't want to be spoiled, but if you could at least say what you want in an NPC -- new battles, cool items, crazy subplots, extremely good writing, romance, friendship, realistic vs. idealized romance, higher alignment vs. lower alignment -- it would at least give us some clue as to where to begin. well, let's see, im a fan of tactical battles, good writing, romance is alright, but not necessary, although it's my experience good writing with bioware NPCs usually comes out during the romances (not sure if that's the case with 3rd party NPCs), realistic rather than idealistic anything. but in general (and in answer to Aion's post also), i'm not asking for a specific set of criteria. i just want quality in general. since you guys have clearly tried a lot of these mods and NPCs, if you liked something, and can do me a favor and describe briefly what was so good about it, if that description appeals to me, i'll try it. why is offering one's own opinion to help inform others so looked down upon here? this is how the real world, or even internet message boards, work: Person A: "i played _____ game and it was really good. it has a lot of _____ and the storyline _____" Person B: "oh really? ok cool ill try it" Person A: "i also played ______ and it kind of sucked. the _____ was not believable at all and the pacing was nonsensical" Person B: "yeah, i've heard a few people say that. not going to waste my time"
Dakk Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I don't mind giving my opinion at all. I won't necessarily tell you what mods are "bad" (ok I will if you'd ask ), but I see no problem telling others what mods I enjoy and feel are really well done. I even did, one page back.
grogerson Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Since I play BG1 a lot, three mods come to mind you might enjoy. Jastey's BG Quests and Encounters offers a few small, and fun, additions. Nothing serious or terribly difficult, but fun. It's hosted here. Kulyok's Xan Friendship BG1 is a good mod that makes the depressed mage actually worth playing, giving him more depth and interaction with the PC. This mod is hosted at Pocket Plane Group. Finally BG1 Unfinished Business, also hosted at Pocket Plane Group. It contains some fixes to BG as well as some quests that never saw inclusion in the game though some work had been done on them. All are coded to install on all three platforms - vanilla, BGT or Tutu.
Rhaella Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 well, let's see, im a fan of tactical battles, good writing, romance is alright, but not necessary, although it's my experience good writing with bioware NPCs usually comes out during the romances (not sure if that's the case with 3rd party NPCs), realistic rather than idealistic anything. You might want to try Solaufein. Very big on the tactical battles, not much of a "traditional" romance, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. He's often not considered to be in character with the Solaufein you meet in Ust Natha, but the battles are supposed to be some of the toughest out there. You might like Angelo. A grittier, mercenary type character with a very well done romance. The Kara-Turan/Japanese flare might not be for everyone (too much anime in college has sadly made me allergic to all things Japanese), but definitely very high quality. I quite like Ninde also. She's a darkly romanticized -- though I wouldn't quite say idealized -- necromancer from Waterdeep with a very captivating story. No voicing or TOB content, though, which might be a problem. If you don't like things idealistic, stay away from Saerileth and Tsujatha. Probably Yasraena as well, but the other two are very much of the "my one true love, you complete me" variety. Actually well executed from a technical perspective, I think, with nice extra content thrown in, but you really have to play a very specific, very pure and good type of character, and the romances are on the melodramatic side. Which some people eat up, but probably not you. There's actually quite a bit of new content even for the original Bioware NPCs. Spellhold Studios has friendships for Viconia, Mazzy, Yoshimo, and Imoen now, and there are new romances for Edwin, Haer'dalis, and Sarevok. All of those are worth checking out also. If you're doing BGI with Tutu, definitely grab the BGI NPC project. It gives all the NPCs content more akin to what you're used to from BGII and adds a couple of romances also.
forklift Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 I don't mind giving my opinion at all. I won't necessarily tell you what mods are "bad" (ok I will if you'd ask ), but I see no problem telling others what mods I enjoy and feel are really well done. I even did, one page back. and thanks for that! Since I play BG1 a lot, three mods come to mind you might enjoy. Jastey's BG Quests and Encounters offers a few small, and fun, additions. Nothing serious or terribly difficult, but fun. It's hosted here. Kulyok's Xan Friendship BG1 is a good mod that makes the depressed mage actually worth playing, giving him more depth and interaction with the PC. This mod is hosted at Pocket Plane Group. Finally BG1 Unfinished Business, also hosted at Pocket Plane Group. It contains some fixes to BG as well as some quests that never saw inclusion in the game though some work had been done on them. All are coded to install on all three platforms - vanilla, BGT or Tutu. awesome. xan was always a character i thought was just empty in the original and needed some spicing up. You might want to try Solaufein. Very big on the tactical battles, not much of a "traditional" romance, but that doesn't seem to be a problem. He's often not considered to be in character with the Solaufein you meet in Ust Natha, but the battles are supposed to be some of the toughest out there. i think i tried him out the last time i played, and i don't remember exactly but i dont think i liked the fights. i seem to recall they didn't feel like they fit in with the rest of BG2. also, isnt it unsupported now along with the rest of the weidu mods? You might like Angelo. A grittier, mercenary type character with a very well done romance. The Kara-Turan/Japanese flare might not be for everyone (too much anime in college has sadly made me allergic to all things Japanese), but definitely very high quality. I quite like Ninde also. She's a darkly romanticized -- though I wouldn't quite say idealized -- necromancer from Waterdeep with a very captivating story. No voicing or TOB content, though, which might be a problem. oof unfortunately i also don't like japanese flavor in my western RPGs, but maybe. ninde sounds good; no voicing i can do with, but no TOB might be a dealbreaker. unless i switch her out with some other mage at the beginning of that. If you don't like things idealistic, stay away from Saerileth and Tsujatha. Probably Yasraena as well, but the other two are very much of the "my one true love, you complete me" variety. Actually well executed from a technical perspective, I think, with nice extra content thrown in, but you really have to play a very specific, very pure and good type of character, and the romances are on the melodramatic side. Which some people eat up, but probably not you. yeah that sounds a bit irritating. There's actually quite a bit of new content even for the original Bioware NPCs. Spellhold Studios has friendships for Viconia, Mazzy, Yoshimo, and Imoen now, and there are new romances for Edwin, Haer'dalis, and Sarevok. All of those are worth checking out also. If you're doing BGI with Tutu, definitely grab the BGI NPC project. It gives all the NPCs content more akin to what you're used to from BGII and adds a couple of romances also. great, thanks for the help!
DavidW Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 It's called BiG World Project (BWP). It originally started as a way to add nearly all mods in one install; it's since grown to be a preferred install order method, a means of automatically applying bugfixes, and allows you to install as few or as many mods as you like. great. that's perfect. i'll look into that. thank you! I don't really think BWP is what you're after. It's optimized for situations where you want to install very large numbers of mods and it has no quality control. If you want a smallish number of mods you'd do better to just install them in sequence - BWP is overkill for that kind of thing. what i would honestly prefer is for someone to make THEIR complete, comprehensive version of a modded BG/BG2; maybe he would put in the most popular mods, or maybe he has a theme in mind. that would provide for a singular unified vision. he could either package it into one download, or provide clear directions for it, and then i could read reviews of this version of the BG experience and other peoples' versions, and decide which one i'd like, and then download and play it. of course you could offer some choices at install that probably ARE best left up to the player, but mostly, it would be a good jump-off point. OK (up to a point): here's mine, in the order that you should install. (Mods marked with asterisks are written by me, so take recommendations with a pinch of salt). I know gibberlings3 and pocketplane better than spellhold studios (and the latter is down, so I can't check what's recent and interesting) so there's a skew there. And I'm making this up on the spur of the moment so I've probably forgotten something wonderful. For BG1 - Easytutu (usoutpost31.com/easytutu/), along with the Easytutu Degreenifier - TUTUGUI (www.pocketplane.net) - BG1 Unfinished Business (www.pocketplane.net) - BG1 NPC project (www.gibberlings3.net) - BG mini-quests and encounters (www.gibberlings3.net) - Lure of the Sirines' Call (www.pocketplane.net) - Gavin (www.gibberlings3.net) - Sword Coast Stratagems * (www.gibberlings3.net) - G3 Tweakpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - Widescreen (www.gibberlings3.net) For BG2 - Ascension-WEIDU (weidu.org) - BG2 Fixpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - One Pixel Productions (www.spellholdstudios.net) - BG2 Unfinished Business (www.pocketplane.net) - Quest Pack (www.pocketplane.net) - Wheels of Prophecy * (www.gibberlings3.net) - G3 Anniversary Mod (www.gibberlings3.net) - NPC mods to taste (others have given more useful recommendations than I) - Spell Revisions and/or Item Revisions (www.gibberlings3.net), if you want to revamp the spell and item system significantly. (i.e., these mods are well-designed and well-executed and do just what they say, but only install them if you want a significantly different spell and item set) - Item randomizer (www.gibberlings3.net) - Rogue Rebalancing (www.spellholdstudios.net) - Refinements (www.spellholdstudios.net) - Sword Coast Stratagems II *(www.gibberlings3.net) - aTweaks (www.spellholdstudios.net) - G3 Tweakpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - Widescreen (www.gibberlings3.net) Oh, and the graphical difference between TUTU and BGT went away a long time ago. From a technical standpoint they are virtually identical as far as the in-game experience is concerned. Just pick whether you want a unified experience or two separate games.
Azazello Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 It's called BiG World Project (BWP). It originally started as a way to add nearly all mods in one install; it's since grown to be a preferred install order method, a means of automatically applying bugfixes, and allows you to install as few or as many mods as you like. great. that's perfect. i'll look into that. thank you! I don't really think BWP is what you're after. It's optimized for situations where you want to install very large numbers of mods and it has no quality control. If you want a smallish number of mods you'd do better to just install them in sequence - BWP is overkill for that kind of thing. We need Jarno to chime in, he's the resident expert when it comes to details about BWP. Supposedly it is scalable to small installs. (I'm kinda surprised he hasn't jumped in already, haha.) But I do think BWP is what the user wants, and it's the closest method available to pre-packaging mod-installs. There is a recent thread created on SHS on how beginners could use BWP. Once the site is back up, we can confirm if the instructions are simple to follow. But you're not correct about it having no quality control--BWP has the best QC of any install method available, even a manual one. What I think you meant is, it has no ratings systems on the quality of mods, and that is certainly true, and that is by design. BWP doesn't tell you what to play, it's up to you the player to decide which mods you want. And this user wants opinions on mods, and that's what he's getting here. DW, I do fully agree with your philosophy, I wouldn't recommended BWP to a totally new player or an inexperienced one. And if the install list is small enough, yes, I agree, do-it-yourself. BTW as much as I support BWP I don't even use it (except the install guide to track dependency issues and suggested install order). Like you, I do it manually, even mega-installs. I like having more control over what&how&where I install mods. But I wouldn't recommend that for everyone. (bt-btw I have used EasyTuTu, I like it very much, and I do highly recommend it for new players.)
DavidW Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 But you're not correct about it having no quality control--BWP has the best QC of any install method available, even a manual one. What I think you meant is, it has no ratings systems on the quality of mods, and that is certainly true, and that is by design. BWP doesn't tell you what to play, it's up to you the player to decide which mods you want. Yes, that is what I mean. It has no quality control in the sense that it has no controls on the quality of mods. As for install QC, I'm not persuaded. The raison d'etre of BWP is to try to build a game that includes as many components as possible - including many from mods coded in very old, compatibility-unfriendly ways, that aren't currently maintained - and have the install not crash. That's an impressive achievement but it's not the same as serious testing of the resultant product. I know from unhappy experience with "bugs" in SCS that the fixes included in BWP have no QC at all - they're just gathered together from the internet. This is not a criticism per se. A significant number of people want mega-installs with every mod under the sun. The only realistic way to deliver something like that is probably the BWP way. But if you want a smallish group of mostly-modern mods, I still feel that you are better off just installing sequentially. Provided a mod has been properly coded, we already have an effective multi-install tool: WEIDU.
forklift Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 OK (up to a point): here's mine, in the order that you should install. (Mods marked with asterisks are written by me, so take recommendations with a pinch of salt). I know gibberlings3 and pocketplane better than spellhold studios (and the latter is down, so I can't check what's recent and interesting) so there's a skew there. And I'm making this up on the spur of the moment so I've probably forgotten something wonderful. For BG1 - Easytutu (usoutpost31.com/easytutu/), along with the Easytutu Degreenifier - TUTUGUI (www.pocketplane.net) - BG1 Unfinished Business (www.pocketplane.net) - BG1 NPC project (www.gibberlings3.net) - BG mini-quests and encounters (www.gibberlings3.net) - Lure of the Sirines' Call (www.pocketplane.net) - Gavin (www.gibberlings3.net) - Sword Coast Stratagems * (www.gibberlings3.net) - G3 Tweakpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - Widescreen (www.gibberlings3.net) great. none of the links to the BGT readme i've found work, and i don't want to mess it up--when am i supposed to install it? i have BG1, TOSC, and most recent official TOSC patch installed. i also have BG2, TOB, and most recent TOB official patch installed. is this the point where i install BGT? also, on the forums someone said TUTUGUI seems to have problems playing nice with the widescreen mod, but you have both listed here. should i not worry? For BG2 - Ascension-WEIDU (weidu.org) - BG2 Fixpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - One Pixel Productions (www.spellholdstudios.net) - BG2 Unfinished Business (www.pocketplane.net) - Quest Pack (www.pocketplane.net) - Wheels of Prophecy * (www.gibberlings3.net) - G3 Anniversary Mod (www.gibberlings3.net) - NPC mods to taste (others have given more useful recommendations than I) - Spell Revisions and/or Item Revisions (www.gibberlings3.net), if you want to revamp the spell and item system significantly. (i.e., these mods are well-designed and well-executed and do just what they say, but only install them if you want a significantly different spell and item set) - Item randomizer (www.gibberlings3.net) - Rogue Rebalancing (www.spellholdstudios.net) - Refinements (www.spellholdstudios.net) - Sword Coast Stratagems II *(www.gibberlings3.net) - aTweaks (www.spellholdstudios.net) - G3 Tweakpack (www.gibberlings3.net) - Widescreen (www.gibberlings3.net) don't some of these conflict and/or supersede each other? does the new AI from SCS2 take into account spell revisions, for example? rogue rebalancing and atweaks seems to be made by the same guy, so they're hunky-dory right? and how about compatibility between the item changes from the G3 tweakpack and those of the item rebalancing mod? it looks like most NPC mods are for BG2, and not BG1, is that accurate? there are about a handful on G3, only two that i see on PPG, and a whole ton on SHS. lastly, you have the widescreen mod listed twice. do i install it twice?
DavidW Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 great. none of the links to the BGT readme i've found work, and i don't want to mess it up--when am i supposed to install it? On the suggestions I gave, you're not, as my suggestion uses TUTU rather than BGT. But you can probably just swap "TUTU" for "BGT" and be fine. You will need to change your install order a bit. Probably BGT , then Ascension, then Fixpack, then all the BG1 mods down as far as (but not including) SCS, then all the BG2 mods down to (but not including) Rogue Rebalancing, then SCS, then the rest of the BG2 mods. i have BG1, TOSC, and most recent official TOSC patch installed. i also have BG2, TOB, and most recent TOB official patch installed. is this the point where i install BGT? Yep. also, on the forums someone said TUTUGUI seems to have problems playing nice with the widescreen mod, but you have both listed here. should i not worry? I don't know, sorry. Try it and see. (Though if you're using BGT rather than TUTU, you probably don't want it.) don't some of these conflict and/or supersede each other? Hopefully not, but I may have made a mistake. does the new AI from SCS2 take into account spell revisions, for example? Yes. (Though there is a typo in version 20 of SCS2 that breaks compatibility. Until I get around to updating a new version, edit scsii/scsii.ini and replace the second instance of "Mage_Ignore_SR" with "Priest_Ignore_SR".) rogue rebalancing and atweaks seems to be made by the same guy, so they're hunky-dory right? and how about compatibility between the item changes from the G3 tweakpack and those of the item rebalancing mod? It's probably technically compatible, though I don't know for sure. it looks like most NPC mods are for BG2, and not BG1, is that accurate? Yep. (Unless you count the BG1NPC project.) lastly, you have the widescreen mod listed twice. do i install it twice? On my set of suggestions, yes, because TUTU and BG2 are separate installs. Not if you use BGT.
berelinde Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 If you want to use any GUI altering mod such as TutuGUI, install it before the Widescreen Mod and you'll be fine.
Dakk Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 On the suggestions I gave, you're not, as my suggestion uses TUTU rather than BGT. But you can probably just swap "TUTU" for "BGT" and be fine. You will need to change your install order a bit. Probably BGT , then Ascension, then Fixpack, then all the BG1 mods down as far as (but not including) SCS, then all the BG2 mods down to (but not including) Rogue Rebalancing, then SCS, then the rest of the BG2 mods. forklift: you can use either Tutu or BGT, but I got the impression a unified game was more what you wanted. I personally really likes BGT a lot and can't think of a reason to use Tutu instead, but then a lot of smart people (like DavidW, maker of the one of the best BG mods, period) does - so what do I know For the install order, BG2 Fixpack comes before BGT, and that's very important Use the BWP install pdf, even for a non MegaMod-install the order is the same and it's very easy to follow. BWP, look for BiG World v10.3.1 english.pdf.
DavidW Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I personally really likes BGT a lot and can't think of a reason to use Tutu instead, but then a lot of smart people (like DavidW, maker of the one of the best BG mods, period) does - so what do I know I use Tutu for two reasons: (i) I find BG1 and BG2 slightly different games stylistically and artistically and I quite like keeping them separate that way. (In particular, I prefer having two different GUIs.) (ii) I'm inclined to think I get a stabler game by separating out the mods I use, so that I don't have to play BG1 with a ton of BG2 stuff installed. But I really think there's very little in it these days (at least for people who have English as a first language).
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