Item Revisions & BGT

[Demivrgvs]

2, 4 - my point is that two amulets or pairs of bracers laying in inventory contradict the description, which claims they are "the" items, not "a". It is fine to have The Protector and Bracers of Death, but then there have to be a generic version as well, explaining the described phenomenon.

Yep, that's exactly why I changed those descriptions back then.

 

I do know about Boots of Speed and Ring of Invisibility sharing the problem, it is just the fact that I don't pay too much attention to such details during the play that I haven't draw attention to it.

Actually I'm almost sure I fixed this issue, slightly altering the descriptions. I cannot check my PC right know but I think I wrote something like "these boots were so useful that Shadow Thieves made multiplecopies of it", or something similar.

 

You could then ask me why I didn't do the same for the two above mentioned items, well that's because items like Bracers of Armor or Ring of Protections are so common within Forgottem Realms that it feels strange imo to assign them very specific bckgrounds. No?

 

Icons/colors - you mean to include an option in IR to provide a different set? Seeing how almost every other component already offers some choices, it shouldn't be unrealistic. But anyway, it's something far more within Demi's domain than mine, since all the new graphics are his doing only.

Not sure what is asked me to do here. If it's a matter of using objectively better bams, I'll gladly take a look at them and change them (@Salk I'll check you work as soon as I get back my connection at home), but allowing players to select multiple bams/icons for multiple items would be asking too much imo (anyone could then ask us to do a similar thing to other items, and what would we do then? Add tons of different options for singular items?). :/

[Salk]

I am not sure I understand.

 

The original description for the Ring of The Princes specifically says in the very beginning "This ring and several of its type...". How could that lead someone to think that this is THE ring, instead of A ring?

 

About the Bracers to the Death, they are simply the bracers with the best AC bonus in the whole Baldur's Gate game. This should be more than enough to warrant for a unique description and lore.

 

Lastly, the Amulet of Protection +1 "The Protector". Here I agree with your remarks. The description suggests the item is unique so needs to be changed accordingly but without erasing its original lore completely. It just needs adjusting.

 

When it comes to my other cosmetic changes, they have a sense only for BGT players. Feel free to incorporate what you like into the final version of IR.

[Ardanis]

Ring of the Princes - I personally find it implausible that all of those rings came to Sword Coast at 1370 (?) year, i.e. during the BG saga events, and that there are no other rings +1. Also, there seem to be more rings in game than there could have been princes. My say on this matter is to move the RofP lore to Koveras' ring (which IS unique) and leave the others as generic +1 items.

 

Bracers of the Death - in BG2 (and consequently in BGT) they are average bracers (AC 6) often found on enemy wizards. BG2's new greater bracers (AC 5, 4 and 3) all do have a unique lore. I presume BotD may have that "AN item, but probably THE item" line used for other would-be-uniques.

 

 

I do know about Boots of Speed and Ring of Invisibility sharing the problem, it is just the fact that I don't pay too much attention to such details during the play that I haven't draw attention to it.

Actually I'm almost sure I fixed this issue, slightly altering the descriptions. I cannot check my PC right know but I think I wrote something like "these boots were so useful that Shadow Thieves made multiplecopies of it", or something similar.

My mistake, sorry. Otoh Ring of Protection +2 does have it - the second copy can be obtained from the Pride test in Hell, and iirc somewhere else (?).

[Salk]

My say on this matter is to move the RofP lore to Koveras' ring (which IS unique) and leave the others as generic +1 items.

 

Okay.

 

Bracers of the Death - in BG2 (and consequently in BGT) they are average bracers (AC 6) often found on enemy wizards. BG2's new greater bracers (AC 5, 4 and 3) all do have a unique lore. I presume BotD may have that "AN item, but probably THE item" line used for other would-be-uniques.

 

How can you call them "average"? And "often found on enemy wizards"? There are in the whole game 4-5 units of these bracers! And there is only 1 in the whole BG part. The BotD should without any doubt keep their original, unique lore.

[Mad Mate]

The modification requires BGT and Item Revisions of course and can be downloaded here: http://www.gamefront...y_Items_Fix.zip

 

Any chance to re-upload this mod anywhere? :-)

Thanks!

[Salk]

Here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9_1X7K5KtOcSDhOSFZVV2QtZEk/edit?usp=sharing

[Mad Mate]

Here: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Thank you!

[Salk]

Here: https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

 

Thank you!

 

You're very welcome. Feedback would be good...

[10thLich]

How can you call them "average"? And "often found on enemy wizards"? There are in the whole game 4-5 units of these bracers! And there is only 1 in the whole BG part. The BotD should without any doubt keep their original, unique lore.

 

Just to pick up on that, in my current custom BWP-install, I've got 39 hits when searching for references to those bracers in are, cre and sto with NI. A few hits were even for non-unique NPCs.

Moreover, those 39 hits exclude - because I don't install them - Tortured Souls, Neverending Journey, Region of Terror, Shadows over Soubar and Secret of Bonehill.

 

10th

[Salk]

10thLich, I was speaking of unmodded Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2.

 

How many brac03.itm copies are available in the unmodded BGT, specifically in the BG1 portion of the game?

[10thLich]

A rhetoric question, as you know the answer as well as I do concerning BG1. Btw. you can get upwards of 10, almost scraping 20, copies in BG2 if you try hard enough.

 

Moreover, you simply can't view a mod in isolation from others nowadays.

 

I'm all for unique item(s) [descriptions], provided those items warrant it. Those bracers aren't among them.

 

10th

[Salk]

A rhetoric question, as you know the answer as well as I do concerning BG1. Btw. you can get upwards of 10, almost scraping 20, copies in BG2 if you try hard enough.

 

Moreover, you simply can't view a mod in isolation from others nowadays.

 

I'm all for unique item(s) [descriptions], provided those items warrant it. Those bracers aren't among them.

 

10th

 

I disagree, of course.

 

According to your logic, if one day there would be mods introducing several copies of the Shield of Balduran, the solution would be to remove the Shield of Balduran's unique lore. While it's true you can't view a mod in isolation with others, like you said, it is much more true to say you can't disregard the base game when you plan your modifications. It's a matter of opposite priorities.

 

I play Baldur's Gate and there the Bracers of the Death are unique and that's enough for me to believe they should keep their unique lore. If the item becomes more ordinary in the sequel, then you swap the item with another one with an ordinary lore but you don't mess with the original one.

 

Also, I am very curious about you finding almost 20 copies of brac03.itm in Baldur's Gate 2. I am still speaking of unmodded game of course, the one I take for reference. Care to tell me where you find them? Since you have a number, I guess you know...

[Mike1072]

I play Baldur's Gate and there the Bracers of the Death are unique and that's enough for me to believe they should keep their unique lore. If the item becomes more ordinary in the sequel, then you swap the item with another one with an ordinary lore but you don't mess with the original one.

That's a decent plan, but if BGT made them into the same item, then it's extra work to do all that.

 

As you probably know, the main Item Revisions component was designed as a BG2 mod. BGT is generally compatible with all BG2 mods, so without making major changes, IR worked decently well with BGT. Many of the items found in BG1 are also found in BG2, with some differences. BGT makes it so most of those items use the same item file in both halves of the game. As a consequence, installing IR on BGT also affects a lot of BG1 items.

 

The mod is currently in a position where it doesn't approach the changes to BG1 items in the same way it approaches the changes to BG2 items. Demi is working on changes to all the BG1 items for the next version, so at that point it will be officially BGT/Tutu compatible (but I won't be completely satisfied until Demi plays BG1 and comes up with a slew of cool new ideas and items, which I know he will).

 

I mention all this because it means there's a high chance that any "choice" IR has made so far with regard to BGT items has been an unintentional consequence of the way BGT works.

 

I share your concerns about losing the unique features of BG1 as a result of something slipping through the cracks in the conversion. If you could present the information in this thread in a more visual manner, comparing descriptions and icons rather than just listing the items, that would be a huge help and make it much easier for us to address. The shield and helmet information can probably be skipped, because it has probably changed since Demi redid them to work with the new 1PP.

[10thLich]

@number of bracers

1. buy one from Gorch

2. kill Mekrath

3. kill Jeremon (jaheira quest)

4. kill Nadinal (harper)

5. kill harper (jaheira quest)

6. kill harper (jaheira revianel part)

7. manage to kill Terminsel before he leaves (jaheira quest)

8. corpse of Xzar

9. kill Tamorlin, a companion of Igen Tombelthen

10. kill Umar

11. kill Rylock

12. kill Terrece (jaheira curse quest)

 

The rest turns out to be undroppable/not in game, but still 12 copies of brac03. And as with almost everything about the game, it can be found out by using Near Infinity.

 

10th

[Salk]

@Mike1072,

 

yes, I understand that keeping that kind of compatibility is extra work. BGT has its own limitations when it comes to item duplications but IR is the ideal mod to amend that. I am sorry I can not be of much help since I have played BG1 last perhaps 7-8 years ago and BG2 12-13 years ago (and only once). BGT I started only a few times and I never really even finished chapter 6 (BG1).

 

However I tried to do something about it here http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=23896&st=0&p=196801&&do=findComment&comment=196801 for a few items. I thought it might be of some use to Demi but it went pretty much unnoticed.

 

@10th Lich

 

Thanks for that list. 12 copies of the same item in the original game are reason to change their lore to a more mundane one. But as I said before, you can't mess with the original item's lore, causing an extremely powerful BG1 item (the best bracers you ever get in the game, in fact) lost their unique lore. It's enough to create one copy of that item to be used in BG2, change the lore to an ordinary one, and swap the original item with the new one.