New Arcane Spells for v4

[Demivrgvs]

I think an important part of his suggestion is collapsing StF and FtS into s single spell, which gives it great utility. ...

Mmm ok, point taken. The problem is that afaik even if ToBEx now allow us to put sub-spells a la Spell Immunity into contingencies/triggers it still isn't flawless (I'm not sure, but I think it has issues with the pause mechanic and/or potential infinite spell loop?). Overall, even if it looks nice on paper it's just not going to be worth the effort imo.

[kreso]

How about merging the two spells into one ("Transmute Flesh to Stone or viceversa" ) and then make it cast 2 different spells via effs, one affecting enemies, one affecting allies?

[Jarno Mikkola]

How about merging the two spells into one ("Transmute Flesh to Stone or viceversa" ) and then make it cast 2 different spells via effs, one affecting enemies, one affecting allies?

That was the idea all along... well with yet the 2 more effects that affect only golems. Or 4... up to 12 and more, if you really wish to take all the golems into account.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[Grammarsalad]

How about merging the two spells into one ("Transmute Flesh to Stone or viceversa" ) and then make it cast 2 different spells via effs, one affecting enemies, one affecting allies?

Absolutely!

 

With additional golem specific effs...

 

Edit: I like the idea of the spell being a golem wrecker

Edited February 3, 2015 by Grammarsalad

[Istfemer]

WARNING: Wall of Text incoming!!

Isn't it more or less how it's already working within V4? Death Gaze instantly paralize, and then kills you on 5th round unless dispelled in the meanwhile. With SR's FtS you get instantly slowed and then petrified on the following round. I do said I'm open to tweak it (e.g. petrified on 3rd round? save vs death after petrification or die? etc.) but I think we are pretty much doing what you are asking for.

Good, but does your FtS use a custom slow effect which may not be cancelled by Haste or Improved (Mass) Haste and would temporarily override those instead? Is the slow effect harsh enough, like setting Base Movement Rate to 1 and Base ApR to 0.5? (though perhaps a less harsh slow effect should be applied on a successful save)
I also thought about FtS slow effect being not-blockable by Free Action, but this kinda clashes with the latter's description. Nevertheless, it is a possibility.

I see Flesh to Stone's Uber-Slow effect as a counterpart to 'stiffening' in the NetHack game.
In NetHack, a player afflicted by 'stiffening' petrification loses all intrinsic speed & gets 2 game turns to do something about this condition before turning into a statue. Of course the other type of petrification in NetHack is the instantly lethal one. But we've had that one already and don't want it again. I certainly don't.

So conceptually, on a successful save Flesh to Stone kind of would turn you to stone but not completely and only for 3 or maybe even 2 rounds. A Petrification-Lite, if you will.
A further suggestion: how about it giving a big penalty to dexterity? Like -4 to DEX. More: the 'stiffening' petrification probably shouldn't be giving slow-related direct +2 penalty to AC. A penalty to DEX is enough here. I imagine the 'stiffening' petrification providing its victim with a bonus AC --- kind of like a weak Barkskin.

Kinda pointless imo. If you can target a mage or druid (aka they don't have spell protections up) then using a 6th lvl spell to remove Stoneskin is likely the least efficient move possible. Just cast Disintegrate and obliterate it, even Hold Person is better then your suggested Stone to Flesh.

Hold Person is blocked by Minor Globe of Invulnerability and its high-level variants. You must've been thinking about Hold Monster, right? Greater GoI will still block it.
Anyway, it's versatility that counts here, as subtledoctor has already pointed out.

Besides, you may consider tweaking the Green Scroll of Stone to Flesh so that it can remove Stoneskin too! And maybe also affect stone golems. Warriors, Rogues and Priests would all benefit from it --- particularly important if they are going solo. Stoneskin is one spell SCS enemies use very frequently.
David W even might be persuaded to give some mid/high-level non-wizard enemies this scroll and script them to use it offensively on non-petrified party members protected by Stoneskin. Then it might be necessary to raise the scroll's cost and change its range to Touch if it doesn't have that range already. Maybe also lower its spell level? I forgot what casting time it had.

One other thing about SCS. With SCS component 'Potions for NPCs' enemies tend to get plenty of powerful potions --- certainly more than they ever get green protection scrolls.

Stone to Flesh --- How about IR Potion of Stone Form?
Grants 5 layers of stoneskin for 5 turns Usable By: All "I hope your warriors will like it!" says Demi.
Something tells me my enemies will like it even more, regardless of their class! David W sure should help them acquire a few.
And this Stoneskin will be undispellable. Breach will work against it and not much else. And Transmuters don't get Breach. Actually, they don't get Dispel / Remove Magic either. Currently very few SCS mages use FtS (and StF?). The new combined spell and/or scroll-based StF may provide them with an extra counter to player's potion-based Stoneskin.

Sometimes melee/ranged is a better solution to a given tactical problem. Disintegrate is great, but there still may be some protections left on enemy or party member (like Pro Magic Energy & Death Ward) which will block it and there's also, of course, IR Potion of Magic Shielding.
Grants +50% resistance to all forms of magical damage, and guarantees drinker will always be successful when rolling saving throws. The effects last for 1 turn, and cannot be dispelled.
I imagine StF-as-a-debuff would be more effective against fighter/mages and other mage&druid multies rather than against full-blown mages or druids.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Istfemer

[CrevsDaak]

 

 

 

How about merging the two spells into one ("Transmute Flesh to Stone or viceversa" ) and then make it cast 2 different spells via effs, one affecting enemies, one affecting allies?

That was the idea all along... well with yet the 2 more effects that affect only golems. Or 4... up to 12 and more, if you really wish to take all the golems into account.

 

Yup, I think this would be the best idea IMO, but turning to stone if flesh and flesh if stone.

I see Flesh to Stone's Uber-Slow effect as a counterpart to 'stiffening' in the NetHack game.

In NetHack, a player afflicted by 'stiffening' petrification loses all intrinsic speed & gets 2 game turns to do something about this condition before turning into a statue. Of course the other type of petrification in NetHack is the instantly lethal one. But we've had that one already and don't want it again. I certainly don't.

Is there something that *isn't* lethal in NetHack?

[Salk]

Yup, I think this would be the best idea IMO, but turning to stone if flesh and flesh if stone.

 

 

I'm all with CrevsDaak on this.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Salk

[Istfemer]

Don't forget about those nasty Brain golems from Underdark. Those are fleshy. Something should be done about them too.
I'd vote against allowing them to be turned to Stone golems though.

On a related note, druid spell Earthquake should probably be a little more dangerous to Lesser Clay, Clay and Sand golems.

Is there something that *isn't* lethal in NetHack?

#wipe command while clean?
Wiping off your already clean face with your hands or hands-equivalent doesn't kill you. In any direct sense anyway.

[geg_Ma3gau]

A few ideas i ve had for a long time.

 

1) Nerf Feeblemind a bit. Feebleminded AI opponents lose ability to fight, they just stand there and look silly even though they probably could keep smacking you even with 3 int/wis/cha. You can feeblemind even dragons i think?

 

2) Redo triggers and contingencies for convenience. You should be able to set them once and then after every following rest you should have them online automatically.

Edited March 5, 2015 by geg_Ma3gau

[geg_Ma3gau]

There also has always been one lingering issue.

 

If the spells land together at the same time, they share the saving throw.

 

For example, trigger with 3 x polymorph other gives the target only 1 save for all three. So the spells are wasted basically.

 

Also, can anyone knowledgeble explain is there a diffirence between charm and domination immunity?

Edited March 5, 2015 by geg_Ma3gau

[kreso]

There also has always been one lingering issue.

 

If the spells land together at the same time, they share the saving throw.

 

For example, trigger with 3 x polymorph other gives the target only 1 save for all three. So the spells are wasted basically.

 

Also, can anyone knowledgeble explain is there a diffirence between charm and domination immunity?

I don't think the trigger issue is fixable (other than load no-save spells, 3 different spells etc.).

There's no difference in between being immune to charm and domination. The difference is in type of charm applied, but if you're immune to charm you're immune to domination as well.

[toxin]

How about a "Mass Lower Resistance" (lvl7?) spell? Something like the 5th level spell but AoE. Sometimes you fight groups of creatures with magic resistance and hitting just one of them isn't enough (e.g. mind flayers). This only gets worse when they use magic against you (e.g. drow)...

[Demivrgvs]

Mass Lower Resistance

How about a "Mass Lower Resistance" (lvl7?) spell? Something like the 5th level spell but AoE. Sometimes you fight groups of creatures with magic resistance and hitting just one of them isn't enough (e.g. mind flayers). This only gets worse when they use magic against you (e.g. drow)...

This request popped up quite a few times. On one hand I'm tempted to offer some solution, on the other hand I don't think there's any similar PnP spell. It would be easier if there was a non-PnP BG spell which could fit such role (half of BG spell protections and removals never existed) but I don't see any.

[subtledoctor]

My 2¢: Sunray (and to a lesser extent False Dawn) should have this effect on drow. Since sunlight is supposed to cancel their resistances.

 

And I think it's balanced fine they're not spammable spells. I would have False Dawn lower resistance (to underdark creatures only) by about 25%, and Sunray lower it by ~40-50%.

[Jarno Mikkola]

My 2¢: Sunray (and to a lesser extent False Dawn) should have this effect on drow. Since sunlight is supposed to cancel their resistances.

 

And I think it's balanced fine they're not spammable spells. I would have False Dawn lower resistance (to underdark creatures only) by about 25%, and Sunray lower it by ~40-50%.

v Sorry, but how an FALSE dawn can lower a Drow immunity ? They might not have ever seen a real one, but in a cave ... it's hard to get a illustration of the real thing. Now Sun Ray on the other hand would be a real candidate. But can that actually be made ? Yeah, you need to patch all the drow .cre files to have a unique target variable, and even then it can get difficult.