cipher Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's interesting... I was thinking of altering a few spells to lower magic resistance as a secondary effect (and making LR AoE), but didn't consider suggesting it since it would be rather big change in rules. It would be interesting to hear what others would consider as balanced on this front. Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Sorry, but how can It's *magic* ! Quote Link to comment
Kalindor Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Mass Lower Resistance How about a "Mass Lower Resistance" (lvl7?) spell? Something like the 5th level spell but AoE. Sometimes you fight groups of creatures with magic resistance and hitting just one of them isn't enough (e.g. mind flayers). This only gets worse when they use magic against you (e.g. drow)... This request popped up quite a few times. On one hand I'm tempted to offer some solution, on the other hand I don't think there's any similar PnP spell. It would be easier if there was a non-PnP BG spell which could fit such role (half of BG spell protections and removals never existed) but I don't see any. IIRC, we tossed around the idea of using Mass Lower Resistance as an HLA for one of the mage kits in Kit Revisions. Quote Link to comment
Mike1072 Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I love that idea. Edit: well, I like it. Quote Link to comment
kreso Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'd be against "mass AoE Lower Resistance". 1) spells which ignore MR exist already 2) AI won't use it; so it's strictly for player's sake 3) as Demi says, such a spell never existed in PnP nor BG 4) overall spell balance would be disturbed (see 1) Quote Link to comment
Fiann of the Silver Hand Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 The biggest issue is getting the AI to use any hugely divergent spell like that. Personally, I think it's a good idea (I'm implementing it myself), but without a massive AI rewrite (vanilla, SCS, and simding0's at a minimum), it's just too unbalancing in favor of the player. Quote Link to comment
cipher Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I guess that's a given for a newly introduced spells, but what if there is a changed spell that's already used by the AI. F.e. Waves of Fatigue is new, but there's not a single fight that doesn't have the whole party hit by it. Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Yeah it seems like the AI would be fine, and would benefit, from an AoE LR. Current situation: - Player: walks into a fight with multiple characters protected by MR - round 1: AI blasts player1 with LR - round 2: AI blasts player2 with LR - round 3: etc. - round ~7: AI casts ADHW. Oh wait AI is already dead. New situation: - round 1: AI blasts player1 with LR on round 1, whole party loses MR - round 2: AI detects no MR, so casts ADHW. Sure this would benefit the PC a lot more in solo games, but there are all sorts of crazy benefits for solo play, the game isn't really designed for it, so I don't think that should be the target gameplay for SR. Quote Link to comment
kreso Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I guess that's a given for a newly introduced spells, but what if there is a changed spell that's already used by the AI. F.e. Waves of Fatigue is new, but there's not a single fight that doesn't have the whole party hit by it. That's doable ofc; but there are limitations. Example: What spell would be replaced? The AI would use Mass LR instead of it. Imagine it replaces Sphere of Chaos (I'd put "mass LR" at level 7-8; seeing that original LR is level 5). Now AI stupidly casts Mass LR at you, even if you have (example) no MR at all. That's pretty much what SCS aims to avoid in the first place - AI behaving unbearably stupid. Even worse, since AI checks if you have any MR to cast Sphere of Chaos in the first place, it would *never* use Mass LR against MR! Chaos/WoF ends up working since the spells are much alike - debilatating, doesn't ignore MR, don't check for elemental resistance etc. To change some spell (and make sure AI uses it in a proper way) can only be made within some limitations, and tweaking an existing spell (other than L5 "Lower Resistance", but giving this an AoE is fairly OP&silly) to do nothing but reduce MR in an AoE is too much; AI can't deal with that. Quote Link to comment
cipher Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Actually I was thinking more like doing the level 5 LR AoE. I find MR so grievously annoying that I wouldn't mind that change in power. Another possibility (please don't lynch me if you find this too OP ) would be to add to Sphere of Chaos 10% MR reduction per round. Both spells are used liberally from the AI and it would benefit without any script hackery. But I see your point. Maybe sometimes I get so pissed off with the game that I go a step too far. Realising I went too far though is useful in itself, so I appreciate negative replies to any suggestion I might make equally as much as a positive one. Don't hesitate to shoot it down as absurd and silly. Quote Link to comment
Ardanis Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I think a mass LR would seriously diminish the value of magic resistance, which is hardly a good thing in my opinion. And it just so happens that enemy groups (drow, illithids) benefit from MR much more than player, who would normally had 1-2 characters resistant most of the time. Single target LR is enough against such party members. And then, if you go all the way to buff your MR as high as possible (e.g. with spells and potions), having AI waste all your efforts with a single spell is not entertaining - essentially the same problem as with Dispel Magic. Current situation:- Player: walks into a fight with multiple characters protected by MR- round 1: AI blasts player1 with LR- round 2: AI blasts player2 with LR- round 3: etc.- round ~7: AI casts ADHW. Oh wait AI is already dead. That's just a poor AI, if it behaves like that. Quote Link to comment
subtledoctor Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 I find MR so grievously annoying that I wouldn't mind that change in power. It's a big rule change, but you might want to try the 4th component of my mod, the "MRO." Just say goodbye to MR. http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27573 Quote Link to comment
toxin Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) Actually I was thinking more like doing the level 5 LR AoE. I find MR so grievously annoying that I wouldn't mind that change in power. I'm with you - the few spells that bypass MR are usually "meta-spells" anyway that remove magical protections and the like. It is very difficult to actually affect (harm, disable, confuse etc) a resistant creature. I can understand "innate" magic-resistant creatures like golems and jellies (I wouldn't mind if LR didn't affect those at all to be honest), or ultra powerful creatures like liches. But packs of creatures that are casters themselves and blast you with spells and abilities where you can't return the favor (e.g. Mind flayers, Drow) just seems unfair. If making the 5th lvl LR spell AoE is considered OP, how about moving it to say 7th level (assuming that's possible technically)? Another possibility would be to decrease the resistance reduction (for example to 1.5% per level), or maybe reduce the maximum reduction (for example to 25%). Edited October 8, 2015 by toxin Quote Link to comment
Salk Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I pretty much agree with Toxin here. Magic Resistance should really be something very special and really rare People could learn a thing or two about how to scale the combat challenges from the guys at From Software. Quote Link to comment
Fiann of the Silver Hand Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Redoing creature MR is a bit outside of SR's scope, no? Maybe save that for a different *R that will affect the relevant spells if installed. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.