New Arcane Spells for v4

[Shaitan]

Ball Lightning

 

Sounds very unique to me, and might I say, very needed ingame

[Demivrgvs]

Ball Lightning

That would be an interesting summoning spell. Would enemies be able to attack and destroy the ball? If not, we need to be absolutely sure it doesn't distract them ala Mordenkainen's Sword.

The idea was to make the ball have "protection from any creature" exactly because it shouldn't be considered a summon. I'm not sure if the ball should be dispellable, PnP isn't clear on this matter. If we decide to make it dispellable SCS would be able to counter it as it did with vanilla's ProUndead scroll I guess.

[Kalindor]

Ball Lightning

That would be an interesting summoning spell. Would enemies be able to attack and destroy the ball? If not, we need to be absolutely sure it doesn't distract them ala Mordenkainen's Sword.

The idea was to make the ball have "protection from any creature" exactly because it shouldn't be considered a summon. I'm not sure if the ball should be dispellable, PnP isn't clear on this matter. If we decide to make it dispellable SCS would be able to counter it as it did with vanilla's ProUndead scroll I guess.

 

It does sound interesting. For consistency, I think it should be dispellable only if spells such as Cloudkill and Ice Storm are dispellable. It is basically the movable equivalent of an ice storm from what it sounds like.

[Demivrgvs]

Ball Lightning

That would be an interesting summoning spell. Would enemies be able to attack and destroy the ball? If not, we need to be absolutely sure it doesn't distract them ala Mordenkainen's Sword

The idea was to make the ball have "protection from any creature" exactly because it shouldn't be considered a summon. I'm not sure if the ball should be dispellable, PnP isn't clear on this matter. If we decide to make it dispellable SCS would be able to counter it as it did with vanilla's ProUndead scroll I guess.

It does sound interesting. For consistency, I think it should be dispellable only if spells such as Cloudkill and Ice Storm are dispellable. It is basically the movable equivalent of an ice storm from what it sounds like.

I don't see much similarities with clouds or storm spells, unless you want to consider it as a 5' radius cloud which can be moved. Conceptually the most similar spell actually is Mordy Sword imo, but even then there's a huge difference.

 

6th Level Spells

 

Another almost full lvl which gets new free slots becuase of various re-arragements such as making Contingency an innate, merging the various elementals in a single spell, and eventually disabling Spell Deflection (because of a huge overhaul of this kind of spells). Necromancers apparently needed a second spell at this lvl (SR previously added Create Undead here to give them at least one spell), but they'll get Symbol of Fear. In theory I'm also adding Monster Summoning VI (MSIV within AD&D) but it will simply replace Wyvern Call. We have 3 free slots, and eventually a 4th one if we decide to get rid of the classic but useless Stone to Flesh.

 

Shades

Illusionists currently have only Mislead at this lvl, and adding illusionary summons really is a must have imo, to the point where I actually don't know if this spell alone is enough. Anyway, making the summoned creatures balanced won't be easy, but in theory they will be powerful phantom warriors, with a "glass cannon" concept. These semi-real illusions should have valuable offensive prowness, but few hit points.

 

Furthermore I was thinking about making them vulnerable to True Seeing somehow, but I'm not sure how. Surely I don't want TS to destroy them on sight, but for example they could look like normal real warrior unless affected by TS, at which point they may look like vanilla's images (with the blue color pattern indicating they are not real) and perhaps lessened effectiveness.

 

Eyebite

Enchantment was another school in vanilla with no 6th lvl spells (together with Necromancy). I "added" PW:Silence but I want a second spell, and I haven't found any appealing one except this, which for some reason become a Necromantic spell in 3E, but correctly was an Enchantment one within AD&D.

 

Technically it would work a la Polymorph Self/Shapechange, and upon casting it the caster will have new innate abilities usable at will, once per round, for the duration of the spell. These abilities will work using the standard gaze projectile, and simulate the most classic gaze attacks, thus causing effects such as fear, confusion, or charm upon the target.

 

Otiluke's Freezing Sphere

Evokers have only one spell here, despite it being a really good one (Chain Lightning). OFS pratically is a more damaging cold version of Fireball, with smaller AoE (15' instead of 20', though BG's Fireball actually has a 30' radius). As in PnP I really don't see how this spell and it's 15d6 dmg can compete with Chain Lightning (the latter deals 5d6 less dmg to secondary targets, but 5d6 more to primary one, and has a big friendly AoE instead of a small unfriendly one), not to mention it was even worse within AD&D. Even 5th lvl Fireburst would beat it imo, as OFS would be the same thing, not centered on the caster, but with much longer casting time. If you ask me, I'd keep it unfriendly but I would add a secondary effect related to its name, thus either a long lasting slow-like effect or a short lasting freeze effect (e.g. hold frozen for 1 round on failed save). I'd probably prefer the latter.

 

Improved Slow

This could fill the eventual last free slot if we remove Stone to Flesh. Unlike Improved Haste this still is a "mass" spell, which is a good thing because else it would have to compete with both Disinterate and Flesh to Stone! There's little to say here, this would pretty much be a slow spell, but with a heavier save penalty (-6 in PnP) causing targets to move even slower (at a ninth of their normal rate - which means movement rate 1 in general, thus the minimum possible), and suffer even worse penalties (-8 penalty to AC and thac0 within PnP).

Edited April 26, 2012 by Demivrgvs

[Ardanis]

Otiluke's Freezing Sphere

I'm for one-round freeze.

 

Improved Slow

This could fill the eventual last free slot if we remove Stone to Flesh. Unlike Improved Haste this still is a "mass" spell, which is a good thing because else it would have to compete with both Disinterate and Flesh to Stone! There's little to say here, this would pretty much be a slow spell, but with a heavier save penalty (-6 in PnP) causing targets to move even slower (at a ninth of their normal rate - which means movement rate 1 in general, thus the minimum possible), and suffer even worse penalties (-8 penalty to AC and thac0 within PnP).

It really is crazy, almost a Mass Hold Monster.

 

I take it you've deicded against Shape Stone then?

Edited April 26, 2012 by Ardanis

[Demivrgvs]

Improved Slow

This could fill the eventual last free slot if we remove Stone to Flesh. Unlike Improved Haste this still is a "mass" spell, which is a good thing because else it would have to compete with both Disinterate and Flesh to Stone! There's little to say here, this would pretty much be a slow spell, but with a heavier save penalty (-6 in PnP) causing targets to move even slower (at a ninth of their normal rate - which means movement rate 1 in general, thus the minimum possible), and suffer even worse penalties (-8 penalty to AC and thac0 within PnP).

It really is crazy, almost a Mass Hold Monster.

Well, don't look at me, I just posted its PnP values, we are free to balance them if needed. It's far from a Mass Hold Monster because affected targets are still "active" and thus able to counter it in many ways (e.g. drinking a Potion of Speed or a Potion of Magic Dispelling) or even ignores it (e.g. casters can almost ignore it in PnP, and afaik BG's slow has no effect on spellcasting), but I admit it looks like a devastating party friendly mass disabling spell (though vanilla's Chaos may actually be more powerful imo).

 

Edit: IESDP has been edited and it states slow opcode doubles casting time...this is a major issue considering both vanilla and our descriptions states the opposite. Furthermore, it is not stated, but this also means that either haste halves casting time (I hope not, this would be utterly insane!) or doesn't (which is still a consistency problem considering haste should be the opposite of slow).

 

I take it you've deicded against Shape Stone then?

Didn't we agreed on this matter? We didn't found many possible applications for this concept other than Stoneskin on touched creature. On a side note, did I ever told you that 4th lvl Stoneskin (and druid's Ironskin) could be cast on others within AD&D? I discovered it ages ago when I was trying to find ways to "justify" druids using a higher lvl spell slot. Edited April 26, 2012 by Demivrgvs

[Lawlight]

5th Level Spells

Ball Lightning

Your idea really thrills me.

 

6th Level Spells

Eyebite

Yes! I like...

 

Shades

Furthermore I was thinking about making them vulnerable to True Seeing somehow, but I'm not sure how. Surely I don't want TS to destroy them on sight, but for example they could look like normal real warrior unless affected by TS, at which point they may look like vanilla's images (with the blue color pattern indicating they are not real) and perhaps lessened effectiveness.

Sounds like a good concept.

 

Otiluke's Freezing Sphere

AD&D's concept for OFS beeing a multipurpose spell (either a cold ray or a cold globe) is much more innovative imo: aka let the player decide what he likes to do. The damage of the globe version was nonexeistent though. My suggestion would be a mix of AD&D and 3,5e via sub menu a la SI, with Globe of Cold beeing like you suggested (15d6 cold damage at max + 1 round freeze on failed save) and Cold Ray (lesser Polar Ray + your suggested slow effect).

 

Improved Slow

IESDP has been edited and it states slow opcode doubles casting time...this is a major issue considering both vanilla and our descriptions states the opposite. Furthermore, it is not stated

No SR' description already states that.

 

Slow

Level: 3

School: Alteration

Range: Long

Duration: 1 turn

Casting Time: 3

Area of Effect: 30' radius

Saving Throw: Spell negates

 

A Slow spell causes creatures to move and attack at half of their normal rates unless a save vs. spell at -2 is made. Slowed creatures also suffer a -1 penalty to attack rolls, AC, and saves vs. breath. Spellcasting time is doubled, though spell effects are not affected. Furthermore, the rate at which these creatures regenerate or suffer damage from poison is halved. At the instant the spell is completed, all hostile creatures in 30 foot radius of a point selected by the caster will be affected (thus, creatures leaving the area are still subject to the spell's effect; those entering the area after the casting is completed are not). It negates the effects of a Haste spell, but does not otherwise affect magically speeded or slowed creatures. This spell is not cumulative with itself or with other similar magic.

If you ask me, slow should actually affect casters in some way (though double cast time is a bit harsh), but I agree that the opposite effect on haste would be overpowered. To calm you: haste actually does not do so. For the consistency slow should increase casting time by one and haste the opposite, but that's just my two cents.

 

Other

Stone Skin

On a side note, did I ever told you that 4th lvl Stoneskin (and druid's Ironskin) could be cast on others within AD&D?

Don't even think about it!

Edited April 26, 2012 by Lawlight

[Demivrgvs]

Improved Slow

IESDP has been edited and it states slow opcode doubles casting time...this is a major issue considering both vanilla and our descriptions states the opposite. Furthermore, it is not stated

No SR' description already states that.

Ahaha, it seems like I knew the engine better back then when I worked on old versions than now.

 

If you ask me, slow should actually affect casters in some way (though double cast time is a bit harsh), but I agree that the opposite effect on haste would be overpowered. To calm you: haste actually does not do so. For the consistency slow should increase casting time by one and haste the opposite, but that's just my two cents.

Imo haste and slow shouldn't affect spellcasting much (I don't think slowing the somatic part of spellcasting has a huge impact on casting time), but if have to not more than +1/-1 as you says. Haste in particular would be even more imbalancing than slow if it halves casting time, and combined with Vecna-like items and Alacrity.

 

Damn, I wish these opcodes were not so much hardcoded.

 

Stoneskin

On a side note, did I ever told you that 4th lvl Stoneskin (and druid's Ironskin) could be cast on others within AD&D?

Don't even think about it!

Don't worry I'm not going to improve mage's Stoneskin even more. The idea was to improve druid's one, and I was going to suggest either this or more skins.

[Lawlight]

Ironskin

The idea was to improve druid's one, and I was going to suggest either this or more skins.

Improving Ironskin is of course quite another matter. Druids need some love.

 

My suggestion:

Mage's Lucubration / Mordenkainen's Lucubration

Mage's equivalent to Wondrous Recall.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Lawlight

[Kalindor]

Improving Ironskin is of course quite another matter. They need some love.

 

"Ironskins" sounds a lot more intimidating than "Stoneskin" anyhow.

[Shaitan]

"Stoneskin" however sounds more druidic

[Demivrgvs]

Ironskin

The idea was to improve druid's one, and I was going to suggest either this or more skins.

Improving Ironskin is of course quite another matter. Druids need some love.

As Shaitan's says Stoneskin is a much more appropriate name for a druidic spell. Fortunately they renamed it for 3E after having noticed how absurd it was for a class who don't want to wear metal, and draws its power from nature to cast a metallic armor spell. Long story short, never I will never refer to druid's Stoneskin as Ironskin.

 

Mage's Lucubration / Mordenkainen's Lucubration

Mage's equivalent to Wondrous Recall.

It is much weaker than WR though, as it restores a single spell of lower lvl. Anyway, I find difficult to find space for this space with all the good ones we could have at this lvl.

[Lawlight]

Druid's Stonekin

I called it Ironskin by force of habit and I've no problem at all with it's new name.

 

Mage's Lucubration / Mordenkainen's Lucubration

One could easily make it restore the same amounts like WR though. I brought it as alternative.

 

Improved Slow

I've some doubts here. Will you try to achieve constancy with Improved Haste, like you did with Haste vs. Slow (it would be much harder to do on the apr part)? And secondly, I dont like the fact that a single Improved Slow cast couters all seperatly casted IHs. Last but not least, would the penalties to AC and thac0 stack with Incendiary Cloud (possibly too much?). And if not, wouldn't it make IC even more redundant?

[Demivrgvs]

Improved Slow

I've some doubts here. Will you try to achieve constancy with Improved Haste, like you did with Haste vs. Slow (it would be much harder to do on the apr part)? And secondly, I dont like the fact that a single Improved Slow cast couters all seperatly casted IHs. Last but not least, would the penalties to AC and thac0 stack with Incendiary Cloud (possibly too much?). And if not, wouldn't it make IC even more redundant?

I do share your doubts regarding IH and IS duality, but I also feel Improved Haste would be hugely OP if not single target (+2 apr on the entire party plus summons?!?), while Improved Slow would be underpowered as a single target spell, not to mention it would have to compete from almost the same role with Flesh to Stone. The only way IS could work as a single target spell would be without a save imo, but I'm neither sure how much balanced it would be nor sure I'd like it to overlap with Flesh to Stone role.

 

Btw, even the lower lvl Haste and Slow clearly weren't specular in vanilla (-4 penalties to AC/THAC0 the latter, no such effects the former) and they still aren't because of that damn hardcoded doubled casting time when slowed.

 

On a side note, if it wasn't for the whole "cancel each other" feature it shouldn't even be necessary for the two spells to be exact opposite of each other.

 

I'll be back on this matter after discussing a bunch of related technical things with Arda.

[Demivrgvs]

7th Level Spells

 

From this spell lvl we don't have to worry reaching the 24 spells per lvl cap because even looking into all PnP sources I haven't found so many great spells which could really add something new. Both Symbol of Stun and Symbol of Weakness will probably be here, and the lesser version of the two Bigby's spells might too. We still have a bunch of free slots, and the number may even increse depending on other decsions (e.g. if we ever decide to merge the genies).

 

Monster Summoning VII

Deciding which creatures assign to the various MS spells is difficult; MSVI and MSVII are no exception and also have a very tough competition (genies, elementals, and so on, not to mention Mordy!). I'll discuss all the summoning spells in a dedicated topic, but the more likely candidates for this spell currently are Umber Hulks.

 

Conjure Greater Elemental

Ardanis suggested to move greater elementals here and I kinda agree, not only for balance reasons (they weren't OP, but they surely outshined all other summons at the same lvl), but also because CGE actually is a 7th lvl spell within AD&D.

 

Prying Eye/Watchful Eye

Adding at least one Divination spell here should actually be the top priority, but the problem is that divination spells are few, and generally useless outside of PnP. In an ideal world I'd love to put here Greater Arcane Sight (Ardanis is convinced we can implement it, I'm not 100% sure), but within BG it has very little use imo because of that damn text feedback which ruins Mislead's intended role and tells the player each and every spell is cast (though SCS recently followed my suggestion to at least hide prebuff text messages). Without it the only other PnP option probably is something like Greater Prying Eye, which is similar to AD&D's Watchful Eye (a 7th lvl spell from the Dark Sun setting). Now, this spell is supposed to be Wizard Eye with True Seeing, but now that we're making TS work more like PnP (aka not dispelling illusionary protections/creatures on sight) such solution would make it another "great PnP spell but bad BG spell". What could make it a great "summon" (it shouldn't count as a summon imo) is granting it thief's detect traps and detect illusions skills (though I would probably not assign it a 100% chance for balance reasons).

 

Long story short, I suggest to move here 4th lvl Wizard Eye (we have Farsight there performing the very same role), and improving it as much as we can. What do you think?