New Arcane Spells for v4

[April]

Doesn't IWD2 have a Mordenkainen's Force Missile animation? Any chance you could use that?

 

http://www.planetbal...rcemissiles.jpg

[Demivrgvs]

@April, sorry I missed a post of yours.

 

Mordenkainen's Force Missiles

I guess Mordenkainen's Force Missiles could fill the slot of 4th level single target damage, if it's relatively AI friendly.

I have two options:

1) make it single target

2) make it "multi-target" a la SR's Flame Arrows

I was planning to opt for 2 simply because 1) would add very little to the gameplay, if anything at all considering that 2x MM into a Minor Sequencer would pretty much be the same thing.

 

Otherwise you could also take a look at the Orb of "insert damage type here" line of spells from 3rd edition. They are quite boring but stable spell choices.

Vitriolic Sphere is pretty much an Orb of Acid already, isn't it?

 

Doesn't IWD2 have a Mordenkainen's Force Missile animation? Any chance you could use that?

Last time I checked I did not see that animation between those available (many IWD spell animations were hardcoded).

 

Hmm, would it be too much to ask to put the Shield spell to good use here and make it remove the very first MF's Missile, while being canceled by it(provided there are no other spell protection spells) ... unlike the Magic Missile which cannot pierce the spell at all ? While using the Magic Missile animation perhaps recolored...

Well, I'd need to think about it, but I admit that little things like this are cool imo.

 

Conjurations bypassing magic resistance

I don't remember where this has been discussed, but while conceptually I do agree that conjured webs, arrows or things like that should bypass mr, I did not implemented it because of "compatibility issues with the AI". SCS mages do check for mr before casting these spells and do not use them if the target has high mr, thus making them bypass mr would only be an advantage for players.

Well, this is a case for DavidW, not the maker of SR tbh. In the same way he has to manually add your new spells to SCS to account for them (most recent example is that sunscorch is used by SCS24), he would simply have to remove those mr checks for the affected spells when SR is installed. As it is now, if SR is installed and SCS isn't, the result is that the player gets several new spells the AI doesn't use making it a pure advantage for the player anyway.

You do have a valid point.

 

Dragon's Breath

The way I think about Dragon's Breath is that a flat gate spell is created above a random red dragon somewhere, then quickly lowered so only his head gets "transported". Then a feather is conjured and starts tickling the dragons feet making him cough which triggers the breath whereafter the gate is cancelled and the confused dragons head returns to its body. Doesn't explain the party friendly part though.

well, if this spell was a strangely adapted variant of Gate, I doubt the summoned dragon would be so kind to not hurt neither the mage who dared to disturb him nor his companions. Overall I just think that the way they implemented it he current spell concept doesn't entirely fit either school.

 

Btw, PnP Dragon's Breath (be it 3E one or Pathfinder's one) is much more closer to what I would expect from a spell with such name, aka an Evocation spell which simulates breath attacks of dragons. In fact, I'm tempted to slightly tweak this HLA to allow different types of elemental damage - and removing that dragon shaped effect could help making the spell's concept more clear.

[DrAzTiK]

In fact, I'm tempted to slightly tweak this HLA to allow different types of elemental damage

I second this. Even with SR, making all character immune to fire remain a little bit too much convenient and make/adding some spells to provide random elemental damage (fire,acid or ice) could make fights more spicy

HLA Dragon Breath is obviously a nice candidat

Edited September 25, 2013 by DrAzTiK

[kreso]

Shades

I love that SCS makes specialist mages focus on spells of their specializations, and I like to dream that one day Transmuters and Illusionists will join the ranks (right now SCS only has Evokers, Conjurers and Necromancers - I'm not sure about Enchanters and Abjurers but they should be there).

Enchanters are, and in BG1 are very deadly. BG2 features much more items/spells for mind protection so their power diminishes fast. Abjurers aren't - lack of Transmutation equals to no Stoneskin - dead mage. Transmuters aren't as well - lack of Abjuration screws them up. Illusionist are not included as well, unfortunately.

Edited September 25, 2013 by kreso

[April]

Otherwise you could also take a look at the Orb of "insert damage type here" line of spells from 3rd edition. They are quite boring but stable spell choices.

Vitriolic Sphere is pretty much an Orb of Acid already, isn't it?

Nah, in 3rd ed Vitriolic Sphere is more like an improved damage aoe Melf's Acid Arrow, especially the version from Spell Compendium (6d6 damage, reflex save for half, if save is failed 6d6 damage next two turns, otherwise only thing that happens is the initial 3d6 damage). The IWD version however is mostly single target however which is why I wanted an edited version of it as a single target 5th level spell to close that gap.

 

Orb of Acid is a direct damage spell instead: a 1d6 damage/lvl(max 10d6) single target ranged touch attack with no save. Also 4th lvl while Vitriolic Sphere is 5th.

[Demivrgvs]

SCS specialist mages

I love that SCS makes specialist mages focus on spells of their specializations, and I like to dream that one day Transmuters and Illusionists will join the ranks (right now SCS only has Evokers, Conjurers and Necromancers - I'm not sure about Enchanters and Abjurers but they should be there).

Enchanters are, and in BG1 are very deadly. BG2 features much more items/spells for mind protection so their power diminishes fast.

Good to know they are there (I haven't managed to play since ages), I love the Enchanter. Btw, if you think something should be done to reduce immunities within IR just let me know.

 

Abjurers aren't - lack of Transmutation equals to no Stoneskin - dead mage.

I find ironic that an Abjurer, which should be the most "defensive" mage, is not there because he lacks a defensive spell. Leaving aside that I do think he could do very well using Mirror Image or other defensive spells, I actually think DavidW did not included Abjurers because they lack a distinctive array of spells which would make them stand out. Especially because pretty much all SCS mages, regardless of their specialization, use TONS of Abjuration spells (both protections and removals).

 

Transmuters aren't as well - lack of Abjuration screws them up.

Yeah, guess scripting a Transmuter and making him as tough as the other mages must be a real pain, if not impossible in a vanilla game. Too bad, I think that it would be extremely fun to fight at least a couple of times a mage which exploits SR's Shapechange a little bit or turns your own mages into little rabbits just for fun.

 

I'm not sure I can provide to SCS a truly "self sufficient" Transmuter with v4, but using Swift Etherealness in place of PfMW, and taking into account that within SR not all removals belong to Abjuration (e.g. Secret Word for BG1 and RRoR for BG2), Transmuters might start to be viable.

 

Illusionist are not included as well, unfortunately.

In a vanilla game this specialization is pretty much pointless as it offers absolutely nothing more than tons of variations of Improved Invisibility and a bunch of overpowered illusionary clones. That being said, with v4 this school will finally offer tons of different options, going from save-or-else, to summons, and maybe a little bit of fake evocations too.

 

Vitriolic Sphere

Vitriolic Sphere is pretty much an Orb of Acid already, isn't it?

Nah, in 3rd ed Vitriolic Sphere is more like an improved damage aoe Melf's Acid Arrow, especially the version from Spell Compendium (6d6 damage, reflex save for half, if save is failed 6d6 damage next two turns, otherwise only thing that happens is the initial 3d6 damage). The IWD version however is mostly single target however which is why I wanted an edited version of it as a single target 5th level spell to close that gap.

 

Orb of Acid is a direct damage spell instead: a 1d6 damage/lvl(max 10d6) single target ranged touch attack with no save. Also 4th lvl while Vitriolic Sphere is 5th.

I just meant that Vitriolic Sphere already perform the same role of an acid orb, and is both more cool (splash damage plus ongoing damage) and more "canonic" within Forgotten Realms.

[kreso]

SCS specialist mages

Good to know they are there (I haven't managed to play since ages), I love the Enchanter. Btw, if you think something should be done to reduce immunities within IR just let me know.

Will post in the relevant forum for that.

 

I find ironic that an Abjurer, which should be the most "defensive" mage, is not there because he lacks a defensive spell. Leaving aside that I do think he could do very well using Mirror Image or other defensive spells, I actually think DavidW did not included Abjurers because they lack a distinctive array of spells which would make them stand out. Especially because pretty much all SCS mages, regardless of their specialization, use TONS of Abjuration spells (both protections and removals).

They'd be very vulnerable to backstab, regardless. And yes, they use a ton of abjurations - up to Imprisonment.

 

scripting a Transmuter and making him as tough as the other mages must be a real pain, if not impossible in a vanilla game. Too bad, I think that it would be extremely fun to fight at least a couple of times a mage which exploits SR's Shapechange a little bit or turns your own mages into little rabbits just for fun.

It's my favorite mage kit, and it is a real shame AI can't handle them. SCS really isn't meant for mages without Abjuration.

 

I'm not sure I can provide to SCS a truly "self sufficient" Transmuter with v4, but using Swift Etherealness in place of PfMW, and taking into account that within SR not all removals belong to Abjuration (e.g. Secret Word for BG1 and RRoR for BG2), Transmuters might start to be viable.

They're viable as PC's, quite so (even tough lacking abjurations can be a huge pain to handle, and it takes rather high metaknowledge to play them efficently.

[yarpen]

3-4th level Abjuration spell, something strong against physical fighters would really take Abjurers out of closet as all they lack now is Stoneskin.

What about making Stoneskin Abjuration/Transmutation?

Edited October 25, 2013 by yarpen

[subtledoctor]

Hey people I am quite late to the party and this may be more for v5 than v4 at this point, but I'd like to briefly discuss (briefly with a Wall Of Text )

 

Offensive Illusions

 

Reading prior posts about Phantasmal Killer, Sadiw Monsters, Shades, etc. I like the idea of summons that are glass cannons. Magicians using an illusion of a fantastically powerful creature to freak people out is a great old trope.

 

But, rather than simply making them delicate, it would be great if they could really be tied to the target's belief.

 

So for Phantasmal Killer: instead of a souped-up Spook where the spell is cast and the target suffers the effect, would it be possible to conjure an actual CRE (maybe in the form of a mist) that incessantly targets the victim, relentlessly attacking and immune to most/all damage... but also have a background effect running, forcing the victim save vs. spells every round, and if he makes the save, it destroys the CRE. Or, just cripples the CRE's HP and damage so that it can be easily dispatched.

 

The other spells like Shadow Monsters should summon much more powerful monsters than normal summoning spells, but they should be subject to the same 'death/diminishment when the victim saves' effect. (As illusions in someone's head, these would all be targeted at enemies, not 'cast at any point within range' like normal summons.)

 

The difference between Shadow Monsters/Demi-Shadow Monsters/Shades, i.e. how "real" the monsters appear, was just set as a %age of HP and damage in PnP; but if this system works perhaps it could be better reflected by bonusrs/penalties to the target's saving throw.

 

Alternatively or in addition: illusionary summons should do subdual damage, not real damage. So if/when the enemy "dies" from the wounds, he would just go unconscious (that's how the Command priest spell is described as working).

 

(Also, query whether that spell could/should be an Illusion wizard spell, since it's described as kind of a Power Word: Kill that's all in the target's head.)

 

They would still be fantastically useful, from a tactical standpoint, for 1) distracting the target with something much stronger than a regular summons (as long as the target believes it), and 2) incapacitating the target when he "dies," letting the caster focus on other threats.

Edited September 23, 2014 by subtledoctor

[Istfemer]

Stone to Flesh / Flesh to Stone and Improved Slow

I don't like that Improved Slow (if it is introduced) is going to be a 'mass' spell. It breaks symmetry and breaks it badly IMHO.

-----

Stone to Flesh / Flesh to Stone should be combined into a single spell if possible.

Btw, does anyone know if it is possible to tweak petrification (which sets stoned_death state or whatever) in a way so it doesn't also set HP to 1?

[Dakk]

Stone to Flesh / Flesh to Stone and Improved Slow

I don't like that Improved Slow (if it is introduced) is going to be a 'mass' spell. It breaks symmetry and breaks it badly IMHO.

Huh? I thought it was the other way around, that it's symmetric with Mass Hate?

[Istfemer]

Demi wrote:

 

Improved Slow
This could fill the eventual last free slot if we remove Stone to Flesh. Unlike Improved Haste this still is a "mass" spell, which is a good thing because else it would have to compete with both Disinterate and Flesh to Stone! There's little to say here, this would pretty much be a slow spell, but with a heavier save penalty (-6 in PnP) causing targets to move even slower (at a ninth of their normal rate - which means movement rate 1 in general, thus the minimum possible), and suffer even worse penalties (-8 penalty to AC and thac0 within PnP).

 

Huh? I thought it was the other way around, that it's symmetric with Mass Hate?

 

 

Mass Hate

LOL. :D

[kreso]

Stone to Flesh / Flesh to Stone and Improved Slow

I don't like that Improved Slow (if it is introduced) is going to be a 'mass' spell. It breaks symmetry and breaks it badly IMHO.

I dislike Improved Slow. Vanilla game Slow was insane with -4 penalty, and this "improved" version is arguably utterly broken. In addition to such a hefty penalty, it bypasses Globes/Lich immunities, and doubles spellcasting speed. In PnP it works as described, but in BG it would indeed be overkill.

[Istfemer]

I must've been away for too long a time. Since when haste/slow spells influence casting speed? Or are 'improved' versions the only ones that do this?

[kreso]

I must've been away for too long a time. Since when haste/slow spells influence casting speed? Or are 'improved' versions the only ones that do this?

Slow since 1998, haste doesn't.