New Arcane Spells for v4

[Dakk]

Mass Hate, I love it.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Dakk

[Demivrgvs]

I must've been away for too long a time. Since when haste/slow spells influence casting speed? Or are 'improved' versions the only ones that do this?

Slow opcode doubles casting time, Haste does not affect it. It has always been like that, Spell Revisions just made it clear in the description.

 

I do not like it (as well as I don't like that Slow doesn't halves apr 1 to 1/2, or that Haste doubles the frequency of repeating EFFs, etc.) but I cannot do anything because those opcodes are hardcoded. IF DavidW could make SCS detect Slow/Haste status in a different way I would gladly fix/tweak the spells.

 

Btw, when it comes to Improved Slow, it's a "mass spell" in AD&D and that's the only thing that would differentiate its role from Petrification, but if you notice it's the last one on my list of suggested spells for the 6th lvl. That's because I was not convinced of it myself.

[Dakk]

I'm not sure I got what the problem is with the proposed Improved Slow (Mass Slow)? Is it that it's AOE, that the effects are too severe, or something else? Because if it's not the mass part per se, then surely it can be tweaked?

[Istfemer]

Slow since 1998, haste doesn't.

Slow opcode doubles casting time, Haste does not affect it. It has always been like that, Spell Revisions just made it clear in the description.

Oh dear. You learn something new every day.

If so, I agree that Improved Slow in its "mass" form would be utterly broken.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Btw, does anyone know if it is possible to tweak petrification (which sets stoned_death state or whatever) in a way so it doesn't also set HP to 1?

Well, the whole point of the 1 HP is to make the character easy to break to pieces... and I don't think it is, in the way, as it's an effect that uses a specific opcode. But if you like, you could combine that with the tweak(to use different opcode) that makes the NPC romances not break with the stoned_death state by making the effect the character with the held condition until the state is dispelled, as the removal from party usually destroys the romance ... one option is to introduce a magical damage over time effect to the "petrified" character, it would symbolize the body being petrified from the skin deeper to the tissues over time.

[Demivrgvs]

Improved Slow

I'm not sure I got what the problem is with the proposed Improved Slow (Mass Slow)? Is it that it's AOE, that the effects are too severe, or something else? Because if it's not the mass part per se, then surely it can be tweaked?

Because of the hardcoded "2x casting time penalty" even the 3rd lvl Slow is devastating against mages, but at least it's a low lvl spell "easily" blocked by MGoI. Improved Slow would have an even harsher save penalty (impossible to resist for mages), bypass even the best GoI, affect liches and rakshasas, etc.

 

The "mass" part cannot be changed imo, not only because it's as per PnP, but mostly because as a single target spell would almost fully overlap with Flesh to Stone.

 

Flesh to Stone

Btw, does anyone know if it is possible to tweak petrification (which sets stoned_death state or whatever) in a way so it doesn't also set HP to 1?

I already tweaked FtS to not use petrification opcode making it much more "user friendly". I did not received much feedback on its new implementation though.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Demivrgvs

[Istfemer]

Flesh to Stone

I already tweaked FtS to not use petrification opcode making it much more "user friendly". I did not received much feedback on its new implementation though.

What I had in mind for FtS / StF is a single parent spell with 2 sub-spells (like the new SR Fireshield). The only problem with it would be finding a fitting name and a fitting in-game icon.

 

For FtS, this: make it set target's Movement Rate to 1/8th of its natural (base) one (NOT the current one with various bonuses/maluses - those are temporarily forfeit, 8 is the default Movement Rate for humanoids IIRC) or to 1 (whichever is higher) for 3 rounds without save. Also make it set APR to 1 (1/2 is not possible it seems) without save.

Basically, make it a short-duration single-target Uber-Slow. And make this 3-round Uber-Slow not counterable by any in-game version of Haste and Free Action spells/abilities.

Make it counterable only by a cleric spell Greater Restoration, wizard spell Stone to Flesh, wizard spell Freedom or Scroll of Freedom and IR Scroll of Protection from Alterations. (all five will also prevent the possible subsequent petrification as a bonus) IR Potion of Freedom should NOT cure this Uber-Slow.

After 3 rounds pass, save vs. petrify/polymorph at -2 or at -4. If a save is failed target becomes permanently petrified (or perma held/stunned as current implementation makes it happen)

On successful save vs. petrify/polymorph the target will recover from Uber-Slow and will be fatigued for 5 rounds afterwards. (-2 to THAC0, AC and damage IIRC)

Multiple uses of Flesh to Stone on the same target before save vs. petrify/polymorph is made or failed shouldn't be cumulative. Hmmm.. overpowered much? Or not?

I'm very much against Break Enchantment curing petrification. It just doesn't fit conceptually IMO.

I'll probably be okay with Ruby Ray of Reversal curing polymorphed and petrified conditions. That would also make it a sixth cure for FtS's Uber-Slow.

 

For StF, an audacious suggestion: make Stone to Flesh remove Stoneskin (all layers!) on target. Allow a save vs petrify/polymorph at -2 or at -4. Or maybe don't.

As this is a 6th level spell it will bypass even the SR Greater Globe of Invulnerability!

In other respects StF will function as it does now - as a cure for petrification.

 

And another possible feature for Flesh to Stone / Stone to Flesh:

-----

If the target of FtS is a Flesh Golem, the spell will bypass golem's Magic Resistance.

If a Flesh Golem fails a save vs. petrify/polymorph (plain save, at -2, or at -4), it will take a moderate amount of damage and then will be turned into a Stone Golem.

If a Flesh Golem saves, it will take a lesser amount of damage.

 

If the target of StF is a Stone Golem, the spell will bypass golem's Magic Resistance.

If a Stone Golem fails a save vs. petrify/polymorph (plain save, at -2, or at -4), it will take a moderate amount of damage and then will be turned into a Flesh Golem.

If a Stone Golem saves, it will take a lesser amount of damage.

 

Basically, Flesh Golem <---> Stone Golem

Brain Golem and Tyrant Golem won't be transformed into Stone Golems by Flesh to Stone, but instead, in addition to taking moderate damage these golems will be stunned for a brief period of time on a failed save. Magic Resistance is bypassed, naturally. Scroll of Protection from Alterations when used on all these golems will prevent damage/stun/transformation.

Lesser Clay, Clay, Sand, Juggernaut, Iron, Adamantite, Bone, Ice and Magic Golems all shouldn't be affected by this spell, of course.

 

What do you think of this whole latter feature? Does it sound silly or not?

[Jarno Mikkola]

What I had in mind for FtS / StF is a single parent spell with 2 sub-spells (like the new SR Fireshield). The only problem with it would be finding a fitting name and a fitting in-game icon.

(Polymorph) Flesh and Stone.

I think I saw a fitting icon... it's the "Impregnable Mind" from BG1, which uses the "SPPR564x.BAM" file from BG1, or the summon shadow, which uses the "spwi561x.bam" files again from BG1, where the x is a, b or c depending the icon type.

[Istfemer]

(Polymorph) Flesh and Stone.

I think I saw a fitting icon... it's the "Impregnable Mind" from BG1, which uses the "SPPR564x.BAM" file from BG1, or the summon shadow, which uses the "spwi561x.bam" files again from BG1, where the x is a, b or c depending the icon type.

 

Could you please post some images? I can't find the icons of the spells you named anywhere on the web.

 

 

Alternate secondary effects vs. golems:

 

FtS & StF: Flesh Golem <---> Stone Golem

---

No moderate damage on a failed save. Keep small damage on both failed and successful saves. 3d3 maybe?

Instead, on a failed save new (polymorphed) versions of these golems will be Stunned for 1 or 2 rounds.

 

FtS: Brain Golem and Tyrant Golem

---

No moderate damage on a failed save. Keep small damage on both failed and successful saves. 3d3 maybe?

Instead, on a failed save these rare golems will be Uber-Slowed for 1 or 2 rounds.

 

I also recommend reducing FtS / StF range from Long to Short within SR. Range is way too long right now. (at least it was so in SR 3.1)

 

And another thing. This discussion probably should be moved to a new topic.

[Istfemer]

Or you can make things simpler for yourself and forgo damage-dealing altogether. Make FtS / StF a purely debilitating spell vs. 4 kinds of golems.

 

FtS & StF: Flesh Golem <---> Stone Golem

On a successful save: Uber-Slowed for 1 or 2 rounds.

On a failed save: Polymorphed into its opposite type and Stunned for 2 or 3 rounds.

 

FtS: Brain Golem and Tyrant Golem

On a successful save: Uber-Slowed for 1 or 2 rounds.

On a failed save: Stunned for 2 or 3 rounds.

 

 

Things left to agree upon are: what HP/stat/abilty/script/xp-rewarded-per-kill changes should happen to a golem after its transformation into the opposite type.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Istfemer

[subtledoctor]

Those are all fantastic ideas.

[Istfemer]

The general idea for Flesh to Stone is to make it work more like Aec'Letec's Death Gaze. (which is also a special ability of all aTweaks' Nabassus)
Silverstar suggested something like this more than 2 years ago.

Stone to Flesh definitely should remove Stoneskin (no save) on any target not immune to petrification/polymorph, whether hostile, neutral or friendly.

There aren't many creatures immune to one but not both, are there?

[Demivrgvs]

The general idea for Flesh to Stone is to make it work more like Aec'Letec's Death Gaze. (which is also a special ability of all aTweaks' Nabassus)

Silverstar suggested something like this more than 2 years ago.

Isn't it more or less how it's already working within V4? Death Gaze instantly paralize, and then kills you on 5th round unless dispelled in the meanwhile. With SR's FtS you get instantly slowed and then petrified on the following round. I do said I'm open to tweak it (e.g. petrified on 3rd round? save vs death after petrification or die? etc.) but I think we are pretty much doing what you are asking for.

 

Stone to Flesh definitely should remove Stoneskin (no save) on any target not immune to petrification/polymorph, whether hostile, neutral or friendly.

There aren't many creatures immune to one but not both, are there?

Kinda pointless imo. If you can target a mage or druid (aka they don't have spell protections up) then using a 6th lvl spell to remove Stoneskin is likely the least efficient move possible. Just cast Disintegrate and obliterate it, even Hold Person is better then your suggested Stone to Flesh.

 

Otoh, your ideas on StF affecting golems are nice, but I did suggested to make this spell affect golems ages ago and very few players seemed to like it, or care about it. Furthermore, I'm always reluctant to do something with absolutely no connection to PnP (Demi waits for Jarno to say this is not PnP but a videogame).

[Jarno Mikkola]

Otoh, your ideas on StF affecting golems are nice, but I did suggested to make this spell affect golems ages ago and very few players seemed to like it, or care about it. Furthermore, I'm always reluctant to do something with absolutely no connection to PnP (Demi waits for Jarno to say this is not PnP but a videogame).

Ding ding ding... you got yeah. Wonderful to be relied up on.

The only thing I might have a problem is that the two golems might not be the exact opposite things and you'll need the Creature Revision mod to fix that... unless you just simulate the effect/difference from the vanilla creatures and take and switch out the stats. So damage resistances etc go from one to the other... everything except the HPs and animation(you can recolor the creature (skin), but do not chance the animation), and this is because the golems frame doesn't change, just the material it's made of. Ouh, and of course the effect has to go through the golems magical resistances... he might get a low save throw chance, but no magical resistance chance. The reason is that the magic can assume to piece the materials magic resistance naturally, as it needs to go into the material to change it.

Also one could actually make it so that if the save is successful, the effect is miniscule but still there... so the golem got just partially changed, like for example it's it looses a 10% of it's resistances, and gains 10% of the other resistances.

By the way, I don't think the golems should actually have the damage animations when it's hit, it's a statue, it doesn't actually feel any pain etc.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Jarno Mikkola

[subtledoctor]

 

 

The general idea for Flesh to Stone is to make it work more like Aec'Letec's Death Gaze. (which is also a special ability of all aTweaks' Nabassus)

Silverstar suggested something like this more than 2 years ago.

Isn't it more or less how it's already working within V4? Death Gaze instantly paralize, and then kills you on 5th round unless dispelled in the meanwhile. With SR's FtS you get instantly slowed and then petrified on the following round. I do said I'm open to tweak it (e.g. petrified on 3rd round? save vs death after petrification or die? etc.) but I think we are pretty much doing what you are asking for.

Stone to Flesh definitely should remove Stoneskin (no save) on any target not immune to petrification/polymorph, whether hostile, neutral or friendly.

There aren't many creatures immune to one but not both, are there?

Kinda pointless imo. If you can target a mage or druid (aka they don't have spell protections up) then using a 6th lvl spell to remove Stoneskin is likely the least efficient move possible. Just cast Disintegrate and obliterate it, even Hold Person is better then your suggested Stone to Flesh.

I think an important part of his suggestion is collapsing StF and FtS into s single spell, which gives it great utility. Maybe you memorize for its vanilla use, to insta-kill an enemy. But then maybe one of your allies gets tagged by a basilisk gaze - you're prepared. Or maybe an enemy mage Contingency's a Stoneskin and you're fresh out of Breaches - Again, you're prepared. It really has the ring of "I am a powerful Transmuter, my power over matter prepares me for many dangers."

 

If it could also be used to weaken golems, that would be icing on the cake.