New Divine Spells for v4

[Salk]

I find myself sharing (as usual) Shaitan's opinion about level 3 divine spells..

Edited May 22, 2012 by Salk

[Demivrgvs]

Spike Growth

This is really a classic. A rather unique variant to Entangle, which slows anyone in the area (keeping them slowed even after leaving it) and inflicts moderate damage. I'm not in love with IWD's animation, but unless we think it can have "no animation" I'll have to use it.

I do think it needs an animation, and the red(?) one from IWD wasn't very good, can't you just change the colour of Entangle and use that?

Mmm, for some reason I haven't thought about it, but it may actually be fine. I'll try it.

 

Icelance

This spell from Player's Guide to Faerun isn't mage only in PnP, though druids get it at 4th lvl there. I'm not sure about it only because I fear it would overlap and outshine Hold Person or Animal (the latter has a small AoE, but Icelance's damage output makes it more appealing imo), but adding a cold based damaging spell would be good imo.

Modify the hold ability and violá, the ice damage is needed, and the spell is great.

What do you mean with "modify the hold ability"? Shorter duration? Easier save?

 

If it's single-target, it should be fine.

Yes it is, but its paralyzing effect is not limited to "mammals", and is not mind affecting. I guess I could make Icelance's save easier, but is Charm's small AoE so appealing?

[Kalindor]

I guess I could make Icelance's save easier, but is Charm's small AoE so appealing?

Personally, I find Hold Person's AoE to be very useful.

[Shaitan]

Icelance

Easier save vs should be good imo.

[Lawlight]

3rd Level Cleric Spells

Bestow Curse

A classic spell (reverse form of Remove Curse within AD&D). My main doubt about it is that I don't know how to make it different from just an Improved Doom. What do you think?

I like it and suggest to make it a sort of anti-luck spell (-x penalty to saving throws, hit chances, damage rolls, thieving skills, critical strike chance, backstep modifer etc).

 

Searing Light

I like it probably even a bit more than your suggested Repulse Undead. It overlaps with Sunscorch - yes, but as long as druids get it so early I think it's fine. Clerics are more anti undead related anyway.

 

3rd Level Druid Spells

1) Greater Magic Fang

As I suggested it earlier I'm quite in love with it.

 

2) Spike Growth

This one is pretty cool. I agree with Shaitan in both, that it should have an animation and that a recolored version of Entangle's animation should do the trick.

 

3) Animal Summoning III

'Nuff said.

 

4) Icelance

I agree once again with Shaitan here.

 

5) Quillfire

I'm not so much in love with its PnP pendant, but Ardanis' suggestion really thrills me.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Lawlight

[Demivrgvs]

Bestow Curse

I like it and suggest to make it a sort of anti-luck spell (-x penalty to saving throws, hit chances, damage rolls, thieving skills, critical strike chance, backstep modifer etc).

Yeah, but as I said that would pretty much be another Doom, wouldn't it?

 

Well, I already had the following post written in my temp files, so...

 

4th Level Cleric Spells

Clerics already have TONS of spells here (14, 13 if we merge NPP with Death Ward), so we are not forced to add any.

 

Cloak of Bravery

The reverse of Cloak of Fear. As we discussed elsewhere, within AD&D CoB grants only immunity to fear, making it kinda pointless imo considering a 1st lvl spell can counter fear effects for the whole party. I suggest to make it works as a sort of hope/heroism spell, granting immunity to fear and +2 to hit/dmg rolls to nearby creatures, while Cloak of Fear will cause instead -2 penalty (no save?) and fear (on a failed save).

 

Dimensional Anchor

This is a very situational spell, and I'm not 100% sure we need it, but as long as spells such as Teleport Field and Imprisonment (especially the latter) don't allow a save granting at least one spell to protect from them may not be a bad idea. For completeness I might say that Imprisonment do have an incredibly expensive counter, Freedom, and TF is great but not game breaking even if you can't protect from it, that's why I'm not sure the spell is a true must have.

 

What do you think? Do we need it?

 

4th Level Druid Spells

 

Druids have a good amount of spells (10), but nearly as much as clerics. I have the following suggestions, but I'd pick only two of them.

 

Striking/Smashing Wave

It's called Striking Wave within PnP, but for some reason it got renamed Smashing Wave by IWD. It's 4th lvl within AD&D and IWD, 5th lvl within IWDII. Regardless, I will borrow IWD's animation and make it a single target spell which inflicts crushing damage and knocks target back unconscious for a small time. We can easily tweak damage and knockback duration to fit both spell levels, but I'd probably keep it at 4th lvl.

 

Thorns Spray

Pretty much a party friendly Cone of Cold which inflicts piercing damage. Not the best spell ever, but kinda unique at least. I have to see if I can implement it with a decent animation.

 

Blood Rage

Within IWD there were both Blood Rage at 4th lvl and Animal Rage at 5th. Ironically, the former is the only one I could find within PnP, though the latter's name is much more appropriate imo. I think adding both spells would be redundant, but one of them could be a good addition to druids, as they lack offensive buffs (unlike clerics who get tons of Divine Might, Divine Power, Divine Fury and similar spells), and a rage-like ability could even make up for the lack of Chaotic Commands.

 

Giant Vermin

It's 3E only, and it would be pretty much a copy of the current Spider Spawn. I actually vote to not implement it because we already have Animal Summoning and Call Woodland Beings at this level. Spiders wouldn't add much imo.

 

Spike Stone

It's 5th lvl within AD&D, and 4th lvl within 3E. I would actually vote to not implement it at all because it really isn't enough different from Spike Growth (same spell, higher damage), and its IWD animation is horrible imo.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Demivrgvs

[F-man]

Cloak of Bravery

I like this idea. Makes Cloak of Fear more useful and nice reverse spell for it.

 

Dimensional Anchor

I at least would always cast this to my PC if there is a risk of imprisonment and it would also be a good protection against Maze for characters with low INT.

 

Striking/Smashing Wave

Sound good.

 

Blood Rage

Really nice addition.

Edited May 23, 2012 by F-man

[Shaitan]

Cloak of Bravery

The reverse of Cloak of Fear. As we discussed elsewhere, within AD&D CoB grants only immunity to fear, making it kinda pointless imo considering a 1st lvl spell can counter fear effects for the whole party. I suggest to make it works as a sort of hope/heroism spell, granting immunity to fear and +2 to hit/dmg rolls to nearby creatures, while Cloak of Fear will cause instead -2 penalty (no save?) and fear (on a failed save).

For consistensy I think you should add it.

 

Dimensional Anchor

This is a very situational spell, and I'm not 100% sure we need it, but as long as spells such as Teleport Field and Imprisonment (especially the latter) don't allow a save granting at least one spell to protect from them may not be a bad idea. For completeness I might say that Imprisonment do have an incredibly expensive counter, Freedom, and TF is great but not game breaking even if you can't protect from it, that's why I'm not sure the spell is a true must have.

I don't think DA is needed, due to the reasons you mentoned.

 

Striking/Smashing Wave

It's called Striking Wave within PnP, but for some reason it got renamed Smashing Wave by IWD. It's 4th lvl within AD&D and IWD, 5th lvl within IWDII. Regardless, I will borrow IWD's animation and make it a single target spell which inflicts crushing damage and knocks target back unconscious for a small time. We can easily tweak damage and knockback duration to fit both spell levels, but I'd probably keep it at 4th lvl.

Would be nice in BG.

 

Thorns Spray

Pretty much a party friendly Cone of Cold which inflicts piercing damage. Not the best spell ever, but kinda unique at least. I have to see if I can implement it with a decent animation.

Sounds good, but I prefer the others.

 

Blood Rage

Within IWD there were both Blood Rage at 4th lvl and Animal Rage at 5th. Ironically, the former is the only one I could find within PnP, though the latter's name is much more appropriate imo. I think adding both spells would be redundant, but one of them could be a good addition to druids, as they lack offensive buffs (unlike clerics who get tons of Divine Might, Divine Power, Divine Fury and similar spells), and a rage-like ability could even make up for the lack of Chaotic Commands.

A great addition.

 

Giant Vermin

It's 3E only, and it would be pretty much a copy of the current Spider Spawn. I actually vote to not implement it because we already have Animal Summoning and Call Woodland Beings at this level. Spiders wouldn't add much imo.

Is a no from me too.

 

Spike Stone

It's 5th lvl within AD&D, and 4th lvl within 3E. I would actually vote to not implement it at all because it really isn't enough different from Spike Growth (same spell, higher damage), and its IWD animation is horrible imo.

I'd prefer Blood Rage & Striking Wave above this.

[F-man]

Bestow Curse

As I was checking TDD spells, I thought that I could mension TDD version of Bestow Curse that randomly causes -6 to random abilty score (10% each) or -4 to damage and saves (40%). Unique but I don't know how appealing as it might be as it might do nothing useful even if target fails save.

[Demivrgvs]

Bestow Curse

@F-man, TDD's version of this spell is very unappealing imo.

 

I wanted to discuss it with Ardanis before posting my latest idea, but I guess it won't hurt anybody (except me if you end up liking it, because implementing the following suggestion would force me to create multiple new spells ).

 

The only way Bestow Curse could look unique (and not just another Doom spell) is giving it multiple choices (and not random), allowing the caster to chose between at least 3 different curses. I've looked at the entire AD&D list of minor curses but many of them ends up doing the same thing despite different concept. Fortunately, PnP itself says that as long as the effects are similar in power to the ones suggested, casters are allowed to create new curses, so using PnP ones and adding a bunch of my own ideas I think we could have things like:

* target is unable to sleep well and is always fatigued (PnP Insomnia or Lethargy)

* target loses 1 spell ever x time (my take on PnP Forgetfulness which instead works via spell failure)

* target suffer additional x bleeding dmg when struck and/or cannot be cured (Cursed Wounds?)

* target permanently suffer -1 (or -2?) penalty to luck (Bad Luck - this is an Improved Doom)

* ...

What do you think? Remember that effects should not be extremely powerful because the duration is permanent!

 

 

And just that I'm here, let's add even more things to discuss.

 

5th Level Cleric Spells

Guess what? Clerics already have quite a few spells (11), and I'm simply going to suggest an obvious but very useful spell, plus a very daring addition that I only mention for completeness and will almost surely get discarded for various reasons.

 

Mass Cause Wounds

I've seen it also named Circle of Doom, which is a much cooler name, but it's also misleading imo (I'd expect a Mass Doom spell).

 

Shield of Lathander

Aka, priest version of PwfW, which lasts even less. SCS would surely love this spell, but we have various reasons to not add it. This spell was probably supposed to be limited to Morninglords, and with such a name it would surely not be available to evil aligned priests. Furthermore I'm not sure I like clerics to start behaving like mages and cast tons of PfMW-like spells. Long story short, the usefulness of this spell is obvious, but I'd probably vote to not implement it.

 

 

5th Level Druid Spells

Druids have very few spells instead (9), so I'd like to add 2-3 new ones.

 

Animal Growth

I think this is both classic and useful. As discussed before this will more or less work as a thac0 and hit points buff for all your summoned animals (and eventual KR's animal companions). I think something like +4 thaco and +20 hp, and I'm even tempted to add 3E physical resistance buff (e.g. +20% res), but I'm open to suggestions.

 

Animal Rage

As discussed before, I'd go with either 4th lvl Blood Rage (PnP & IWD) or 5th lvl Animal Rage (IWD only). I thought to use the latter name in either case, but saying within spell's description that Blood Rage is somewhat feral, or animal-related could be enough.

 

Which one of the two spells would you prefer? I'd probably vote for keeping the 4th lvl spell, and making it work more or less as per PnP.

 

On a side note, I must say PnP Blood Rage belongs to the Combat sphere, thus available to clerics too, but for obvious reasons I'd make it druid only as IWD did.

 

Conjure Lesser Elemental

A must have for druids imo.

 

(Call) Lightning Storm

Within PnP this is just a more damaging Call Lightning. I'd make it more similar to "storm" spells instead (druids already have Ice Storm and Fire Storm), making it strike every opponent in the area once per round for 4 rounds, but inflicting no more than 3d6 damage per bolt.

 

Rejuvenation Cocoon

This is a 3E only spell, introduced by Complete Divine but used by both IWD and NWN. It would be a short lasting Resilient Sphere which completely heals the protected creature. I'm not sure I have an animation for it though, probably not.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Demivrgvs

[F-man]

Bestow Curse

Sounds interesting, even better if AI starts intelligently using it. (I too didn't like TDD version but mentioned it as a possible inspiration.)

 

Mass Cause Wounds

Is this spell party friendly and/or can it be used to heal allied undead?

 

Animal Growth

Sounds good, resistance wouldn't be OP I believe, this is 5th level druid spell after all.

 

Animal Rage

Concerning this spell and Blood Rage: Chose whichever spell, level and name you prefer though this level seems to have a lot of other good choices.

 

Conjure Lesser Elemental

Naturally.

 

(Call) Lightning Storm

Nice, I really like the idea.

 

Rejuvenation Cocoon

Also a good choice.

[veyn]

Mass Cause Wounds - so is it going to be essentially a mini-ADHW (same magic damage type, party-friendly aoe)? Interesting, but could be tricky to balance. Is it going to be switchable to "cure" version on the fly?

 

Rejuvenating Cocoon - what is the planned duration?

 

PfmW equivalent - interesting, but I'm not sure whether PfmW alone (without additional breach/dispel protection) would be a significant protection. Oh, and "Lathander only" restriction for that kind of spell makes little sense imo

Edited May 28, 2012 by veyn

[Kalindor]

I do not think PfMW is thematically appropriate for clerics given their ability to wear heavy armor. It would be cool as part of KR for the Lathander followers, though.

Lightning Storm ("Thunderstorm?") is a nice addition, but do you have a good animation?

Rejuvenating Cocoon is cool. I think this would be a good addition for Druids.

[Demivrgvs]

Blood Rage & Animal Rage

I have to correct myself, both spells exist within AD&D, but the latter's name was just Rage, and it's a Forgotten Realms only spell, granted by the evil god Malar the Beastlord. Blood Rage instead is a FR's spell too, but granted by a god of war, Garagos the Reaver.

 

Actually, I'm now discovering that tons of spells which we (or at least I) considered generalist spells, are actually FR only spells, and granted by specific FR deities. For example False Dawn do exists (I thought they invented it for BG), but it's granted by Lathander; Dolorous Decay is not a generalist spell, but is granted by the evil god Myrkul, Lord of the Dead; Bolt of Glory is granted by Torm (it does sounded as a good only spell); and so on.

 

Mass Cause Wounds

Is this spell party friendly and/or can it be used to heal allied undead?

Yes it's party friendly, but no, it won't cure allied undead. I'd like to make Cure/Cause Wound spells work in the opposite way for undead, but that's not going to happen because it would seriously mess with the AI.

 

...so is it going to be essentially a mini-ADHW (same magic damage type, party-friendly aoe)? Interesting, but could be tricky to balance.

More or less yes.

 

Is it going to be switchable to "cure" version on the fly?

No. Cure/Cause Wounds spells were never "switchable on the fly", and afaik no reverse spell works like that. I don't think I like the idea, but I'll give it a thought.

 

Rejuvenating Cocoon

what is the planned duration?

Assuming we have a decent animation for it (don't remember if IWD used a unique one, and if it can be exported), and we decide to implement it, then it would last more or less as per PnP, few rounds. Something between 2 and 5 rounds imo.

[Lawlight]

4th Level Cleric Spells

Cloak of Bravery

As I mentioned before: I like it 'cause it expands clerics "reverse spells" concept pretty nice. In addition, I think your suggested implementation of Cloak of Fear/Bravdery should do fine.

 

Dimensional Anchor

I like it, but I think it isn't needed.

 

4th Level Druid Spells

I really like the following two spells. The other suggestions failt to attract me.

Blood Rage

First of all: This could be a pretty cool addition and would add something "fresh & new" (within BG) to the class. If you ask me, I thought it should be implemented at 4th level. I don't mind the name though. Animal Rage sounds a bit better. And yes, clerics shouldn't get it.

 

Striking/Smashing Wave

I've nothing to add here, but it could be a great tool for druids. Splish splash... a water based spell theme!

 

5th Level Cleric Spells

Mass Cause Wounds

Imo this is a must have in terms of consistency and a nice addition too.

 

Shield of Lathander

This spell is more KR's business imo.

 

5th Level Druid Spells

Animal Growth

Yes please. I like 3E's physical resistance buff.

 

Conjure Lesser Elemental

Must have for druids.

 

Lightning Storm

I like this one more than Rejuvenation Cocoon, because the latter is a bit creepy imo.