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Demivrgvs

New Divine Spells for v4

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Tortoise Shell ...and making it temporary increase maximum hit points may as well, does it?
I am against this as it does not seem to fit with the spell concept. Just make it grant a solid AC bonus and physical resistance plus the possibility of casting it on others to make it really appealing.
Restrict Fighter/Druids to Armor that Druids Can Wear I'll never understand the heavy dislike for that component. :(
Do not change it. I use it and I like it EXACTLY the way it is, Demi!
I agree on both accounts. I'd never play without Druids restrictions. It should IMO be added to the main component.

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You know that even with PnP restrictions Jaheira is still able to wear some amongst the best IR's heavy armors? Within BG1 Ankheg Plate probably is the best heavy armor you can get, and she can wear it; within SoA Red Dragonplate Armor surely is one the best heavy armor, and she can use it; ToB's Blue Dragonplate Armor has the best AC in the whole game, and guess what...she can use it! I'll never understand the heavy dislike for that component. :(

Hehe, I got it now thanks. :p

 

Well, I don't asked for changing this component. But I'm now fully convinced about it and will probably install it in my next playtrough. As for Tortoise Shell, I think it doesn't have to compete with Entropy Shield. Clerics deserve to be better defense wise, while druids shine with their offesive potential.

Edited by Lawlight

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Let's finish what we started.

 

7th Level Cleric Spells

Clerics already have 11 spells here, so we don't necessarily need to add any unless it adds something new/unique.

 

Repulsion

I'd try to implement either this or 6th lvl Forbiddance, not both. Role wise, both spells are supposed to offer clerics something similar to mage's Teleport Field. Concept wise, Forbiddance seems much more appropriate as a cleric spell imo (in fact it's cleric only in PnP), whereas Repulsion doesn't feel/look so appropriate (both mages and clerics get it in 3E, and I think only mages had it within AD&D), but implementig the latter is easy (wing buffet opcode), while implementing the former is kinda complicated.

 

Destruction

It's the reverse spell of Resurrection, much like Slay Living is supposed to be the reverse of Raise Dead. With Harm and Finger of Death around I really don't think we need it, and even implementing it via "added on hit ability" would simply make it an improved Slay Living.

 

Protection from the Elements

Not really a new spell. I really don't know if this kind of spells is more appropriate for clerics (abjurations, wards) or druids (elements). Should clerics and/or druids get this spell?

 

7th Level Druid Spells

Druids have very few spells here instead (7 or 8 depending on the whole Heal/Regeneration thing), so we need to add 3 or 4 new ones imo. I'm not 100% sure of most of the following suggestions, thus if you have any other spell in mind let me know!

 

Conjure Greater Elemental

Nuff said. V3 Elemental Swarm and Elemental Princes HLAs will work as innates.

 

Protection from the Elements

See above.

 

Mist of Eldath

Within both PnP and IWD this spell had no duration (more precisely it lasts only 1 round), making it kinda weak imo (just a small healing effect plus cure poison/disease). I suggest instead to make this cloud-like spell last 1 turn as all other clouds. What do you think?

 

Poison Vines

I'm not 100% sure of it because it's 3E only. In terms of gameplay it would be the ultimate entangle spell, working as a party friendly Entangle + Spike Growth, with the added poison effect. Not extremely unique, but surely effective.

 

Tsunami

I mention it because it's really cool, but I don't think I can implement it unless we think a sort of Mass Striking Wave looks good (animation wouldn't be perfect imo).

Edited by Demivrgvs

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Cleric 7th Level

 

No additions

 

Druid 7th Level

 

I like the best Mist of Eldath as spell concept. A cloud that heals is a nice counter to all those ones delivering nasty effects. I don't know how the PnP version of this spell is but I definitely think it should last 1 turn just like all the other clouds as you suggested Demi. Plus, you'd have to make sure that only breathing creatures would indeed gain the benefit of staying inside the cloud (and it should also heal hostiles and neutrals ones of course, making it even more special)

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Mist of Eldath

Not sure if I would use this if it healed enemies.

 

Protection from the Elements

Yes, for druids.

 

Poison Vines

I would use this if the poison damage was decent. It would be a nice combo with Creeping Doom.

 

Tsunami

Sounds cool but it would need a good animation, as you mentioned.

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I don't find new cleric spells necessary

 

Protection from the Elements

Druids get this makes sense to me.

 

Mist of Eldath

Within both PnP and IWD this spell had no duration (more precisely it lasts only 1 round), making it kinda weak imo (just a small healing effect plus cure poison/disease). I suggest instead to make this cloud-like spell last 1 turn as all other clouds. What do you think?

Partyfriendly mist with healing ability? Nice.

 

Poison Vines

I'm not 100% sure of it because it's 3E only. In terms of gameplay it would be the ultimate entangle spell, working as a party friendly Entangle + Spike Growth, with the added poison effect. Not extremely unique, but surely effective.

I'd use it, seems a logical solution.

 

Tsunami

I mention it because it's really cool, but I don't think I can implement it unless we think a sort of Mass Striking Wave looks good (animation wouldn't be perfect imo).

Is it used in IWD/NWN? If doable it would be a cool spell.

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Repulsion

This is not really a new spell, but an improved/PnP-fied Repulse Undead, which iirc we have agreed was of little to no use.

 

Destruction

Assuming Finger of Death improves Slay Living by granting it range (roughly so), Destruction does so by removing the limitation to living targets.

 

I'd use it. And as a small bonus, it can be cast in advance.

 

Mist of Eldath

Like all clouds it should be non-friendly. I don't think it will severely reduce it's power.

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Animate Tree

Wants to point to Animate Tree http://www.shsforums...post__p__542463 suggested by Azazello.
Afaik we don't have a Treant animation in vanilla BG, but even if we had it I'm not sure I'd add this spell. It would have to compete with both Summon Shambling Mounds and/or Animal Summoning VII, losing to both spells imo, because the former summons much better creatures (11HD shamblers vs 7HD treants - treants have nothing special, and vulnerability to fire; shamblers have tons of special qualities, resistances and abilities) and the latter has much more potential (because of the synergy with Magic Fang and Animal Growth - else summoning 7HD trean7s instead of 7-8HD animals would be almost the same).

 

I could instead think of using a treants for Call Woodland Beings.

 

Repulsion

This is not really a new spell, but an improved/PnP-fied Repulse Undead, which iirc we have agreed was of little to no use.
Well, that's just semantics. :D Assuming we make it "replace" Repulse Undead, should it be a 6th or 7th lvl spell?

 

Destruction

Assuming Finger of Death improves Slay Living by granting it range (roughly so), Destruction does so by removing the limitation to living targets.
My point is that FoD and Destruction would compete with each other for the same spell slot, and don't differ enough from each other imo. I don't want to risk a new spell to potentially outshine a pre-existing one at the same spell lvl.

 

Mist of Eldath

Like all clouds it should be non-friendly. I don't think it will severely reduce it's power.
I'm instead with those saying that to be appealing it should be party-friendly. How can it be useful if it heals all opponents? o_O

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Mist of Eldath

I'm instead with those saying that to be appealing it should be party-friendly. How can it be useful if it heals all opponents? o_O

 

It would be useful working as regenerating pool for a party and its summons. The AI won't be smart enough to cope with its presence. It's enough to send into the cloud those allies that need curing and keep the enemies far from it.

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7th Level Cleric Spells

Destruction

With Harm and Finger of Death around I really don't think we need it, and even implementing it via "added on hit ability" would simply make it an improved Slay Living.

Clerics shouldn't even have Finger of Death and it should instead be druid-only imo. Destruction could be a good way to differentiate these two classes even further.

 

7th Level Druid Spells

1) Mist of Eldath

My favorite of your suggestions. I agree with you that it should last 1 turn like the other cloud spells, but I'm instead with those saying it should be party-unfriendly (thus healing enemies too). With this spell around I'm not sure anymore, if druids really need Heal at 9th level. Since Regeneration and Mist of Eldath would most likely stack (and they should imo) adding a direct heal on top of that could be imbalanced for one divine spellcaster alone.

2) Conjure Greater Elemental

Makes sense.

3) Protection from the Elements

I opt for implementing it druid-only.

4) Poison Vines

I could see myself using this. It is also a good candidate for a nasty Giant Snake combo.

Edited by Lawlight

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I actually changed my mind regarding Mist of Eldath: I think it should count for every one entering it.

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Destruction

Clerics shouldn't even have Finger of Death and it should instead be druid-only imo. Destruction could be a good way to differentiate these two classes even further.
While I agree that FoD isn't most appropriate spell ever created for clerics, it still suits them more than druids imo (clerics are semi-necromancers, druids aren't), and in any case both classes always had this spell in any PnP version. Furthermore, the current AI uses FoD, thus I surely cannot remove it.

 

I do share your thought, using Destruction instead of FoD for clerics would have been a more unique/appropriate choice, much like a Drown-like spell would have been hugely more appropriate than FoD for druids imo, but we do have FoD, and we afaik we cannot remove it.

 

Mist of Eldath

The AI won't be smart enough to cope with its presence. It's enough to send into the cloud those allies that need curing and keep the enemies far from it.
Well, I actually don't like to consider AI dumbness as a good reason to make this spell work this way. I'd instead consider it a good reason to not make it affect opponents, because else I would have to cope with opponents not stepping into the cloud (even if it's 2 feet away from them) only because the AI is unable to understand it would be much better to move there.

 

With this spell around I'm not sure anymore, if druids really need Heal at 9th level. Since Regeneration and Mist of Eldath would most likely stack (and they should imo) adding a direct heal on top of that could be imbalanced for one divine spellcaster alone.
Yes, Regeneration and Mist of Eldath's healing effect will stack (the latter isn't even a regeneration effect), but even if druids get MoD I don't see how having Heal as a 7th lvl spell will make them "imbalanced". Clerics get Heal as a 6th lvl spell, and at 7th lvl they get Greater Restoration, which is a sort of "Heal + Restoration + Improved Break Enchantment".

 

Druid's Heal is there for one and only reason: consistency with the current SCS AI, which uses it. If DavidW will ever come back to update SCS again, then we may remove Heal from them.

 

Protection from the Elements

It seems like all of you would like it as a druid-only spell. Fine with me.

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Mist of Eldath

Well, I actually don't like to consider AI dumbness as a good reason to make this spell work this way. I'd instead consider it a good reason to not make it affect opponents, because else I would have to cope with opponents not stepping into the cloud (even if it's 2 feet away from them) only because the AI is unable to understand it would be much better to move there.

 

All clouds-based spell are party unfriendly if memory serves well. Mist of Eldath should not be any exception, especially considering that there doesn't seem to be any valid reason for it to not be beneficial to all breathing creatures.

 

And when it comes to AI, every game's strategist aims to just exploit's the AI's weaknesses in order to be victorious. I am not shocked by the idea of having the AI not understand the effects of the Mist, especially considering that in the vanilla game that spell won't ever be used by the AI.

Edited by Salk

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Mist of Eldath

Well, I actually don't like to consider AI dumbness as a good reason to make this spell work this way. I'd instead consider it a good reason to not make it affect opponents, because else I would have to cope with opponents not stepping into the cloud (even if it's 2 feet away from them) only because the AI is unable to understand it would be much better to move there.

 

All clouds-based spell are party unfriendly if memory serves well. Mist of Eldath should not be any exception, especially considering that there doesn't seem to be any valid reason for it to not be beneficial to all breathing creatures.

Unless the mist itself isn't life force that is absorbed when entering the mist but only a medium that druid uses to transfer life force to his/her allies from some natural source.

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