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10thLich

Removing XP awards from summoned creatures

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The following shouldn't be changed in that way, as that creature is still used as a normal enemy in BGT:

~stalke.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (spwi601.spl -> spstalk.eff)

 

Rather than destructively setting its XP Value to 0, do it like spell revisions and create a separate copy of the creature for spstalk.eff.

 

Moreover, why are these enemy only creatures changed, when you only encounter them as enemies?

~c6guen.cre~ ~override~ // Guenhwyvar (c6drizz.cre -> c6drizz1.dlg)

~sahangu.cre~ ~override~ // Anguiliian (ar2300.are -> sahambo6.cre -> sahambo6.bcs)

~sahlace.cre~ ~override~ // Lacedon (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~sahskel.cre~ ~override~ // Skeleton Warrior (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~sahzomb.cre~ ~override~ // Sea Zombie (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~senstalk.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (ar6108.bcs)

~telelfir.cre~ ~override~ // Greater Fire Elemental (ar3010.are -> teltan1.cre -> teltan1.bcs -> spin570.spl -> sutelfir.eff)

~telicesa.cre~ ~override~ // Ice Salamander (ar3010.are -> teltan2.cre -> teltan2.bcs -> spin569.spl -> sutelice.eff)

 

10th

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AFAIK, these changes were made rather early in the fixpack's development cycle, maybe even in version 1.

 

We probably have a good case for deprecating them, but I'm interested in hearing other some views on this first.

Edited by aVENGER_(RR)

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I've noticed the missing XP for the Invisible Stalker when playing BGT as well. It's an exemplary compatibility problem between the BG2 Fixpack and BGT. The cause of it is the completely different usage of the same creature in BG1 vs. BG2:

 

You already know this.

In BG1, STALKE.CRE is a normal creature the player can kill. It grants 3000 XP, which is a fairly high amount in BG1.

For BG2, Bioware transfered the creature file from BG1. However, they decided to now use the STALKE.CRE file as the creature that is summoned by the mage spell "Invisible Stalker". Therefore, Bioware modified STALKE.CRE in the following way: They removed the 45 gp (because a creature created by a player's spell shouldn't drop gold), set the gender to SUMMONED, and did some minor BG2-style adjustments. They forgot to set the XP value to zero, but the BG2 Fixpack takes care of that (an obvious correction from early in the Fixpack's history, as aVENGER has pointed out).

 

BGT unsuspectingly uses BG2's STALKE.CRE file in the same manner as it was used in BG1, not accounting for the fact that the 3000 XP have been removed by the Fixpack. Hence, when the player encounters the real Invisible Stalkers in the BG1 portion of the trilogy, they do not get any XP for the kills.

 

 

I'm not sure which mod is the one to adjust though, because the handling of STALKE.CRE depends on whether you view it as a BG2 or BG1 resource:

 

If STALKE.CRE is a legitimate BG2 file now, rightfully belonging to the BG2-only mage spell, then the Fixpack's current behavior is correct and BGT would have to take care of the incompatibility by introducing an alternative, BG2-friendly file version called "BGSTLKR.CRE" or something, which would have the properties of the BG1 file. This is already done in a similar way for many BG1 resources.

 

If STALKE.CRE keeps its 3000 XP, it can be considered the original Invisible Stalker. Then the BG2 Fixpack has to create a new, unique creature file for the summoned Stalker to be used by the mage spell (this is the same as what 10thLich suggests). While at it, the Fixpack could also put the 45 gp back into STALKE.CRE and change its gender to something other than SUMMONED, to make it legitimate.

 

One more thing to note: In vanilla BG2, there actually is one other instance apart from the mage spell where STALKE.CRE is being used: In Throne of Bhaal, there is one action triggered by the dialogue BAZDRA01.DLG that makes Invisible Stalkers appear. However, I can't tell whether they are supposed to be "real" or summoned. If they are supposed to be summoned, then Bioware was consistent with making STALKE.CRE a summoned creature. If they are real, then all the more reason to think of STALKE.CRE as the original BG1 creature.

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We make changes according to the usage in BG2. BGT can modify the resource if there's a difference in how something works in BG content and in BG2.

 

We're also not going to change the resources used by a ton of scripts and spells in the game just to set the XP awards. We have to worry about mods that then make changes to those scripts and spells and expect that they work the way they always have. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.

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Moreover, why are these enemy only creatures changed, when you only encounter them as enemies?

~c6guen.cre~ ~override~ // Guenhwyvar (c6drizz.cre -> c6drizz1.dlg)

~sahangu.cre~ ~override~ // Anguiliian (ar2300.are -> sahambo6.cre -> sahambo6.bcs)

~sahlace.cre~ ~override~ // Lacedon (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~sahskel.cre~ ~override~ // Skeleton Warrior (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~sahzomb.cre~ ~override~ // Sea Zombie (ar2003.are -> sahambo3.cre -> sahambo3.bcs)

~senstalk.cre~ ~override~ // Invisible Stalker (ar6108.bcs)

~telelfir.cre~ ~override~ // Greater Fire Elemental (ar3010.are -> teltan1.cre -> teltan1.bcs -> spin570.spl -> sutelfir.eff)

~telicesa.cre~ ~override~ // Ice Salamander (ar3010.are -> teltan2.cre -> teltan2.bcs -> spin569.spl -> sutelice.eff)

We probably have a good case for deprecating them, but I'm interested in hearing other some views on this first.

wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.

 

So what's the final score - will those summons yield XP (rightly so, IMHO)? :)

Edited by Dakk

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We're also not going to change the resources used by a ton of scripts and spells in the game just to set the XP awards. We have to worry about mods that then make changes to those scripts and spells and expect that they work the way they always have. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to simply dropping the enemy-only summons from the list. I'm not worried if somebody wants to farm a few extra thousand XP from these encounters.
There must be something wrong with me, but I think I might be agreed with this bastard at least twice in the same day. I don't think creating separate copies of creatures is a good idea, not at this late stage anyway when few mods will be able to account for it.

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I thought the only copied creature was STALKE.CRE (which is now moot, per the BGT action by Asc64)? And that undoing the "set XP award to zero" by Fixpack was another issue?

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The 0XP summons has always been an elimination of an exploit of XP farming from green-circled creatures, which is why we don't mess with the summons from Gate/Cacofiend/etc. We should drop the 0 XP adjustments from enemy-only summons.

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