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Kit Revisions (Paladins)


Demivrgvs

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Undead Hunter

My toughts on this - if this kit had the ability to instantly kill any Undead by mere presence, he'd still be useless for BG2 apart killing Kangaxx. One can get a weapon which slays Undead in this game upon a failed save. High-level clerics turn them. Mages kill them with fireballs before they get close. Vanilla game features scrolls which grant complete immunity to Undead.

Unless you want to revise entire Undead population of BG2, UH will never be truly useful, regardless of .his spelbook.

Hear, hear!

 

Here is another suggestion: make the Undead Hunter a spellcasting-oriented Paladin. An example is:
This overlaps with the lathandrite kit.
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A suggestion for Challenge Evil - it should imo make the Cavalier himself also unable to move. It's quite exploitable this way.
Makes sense considering the Cavalier should remain there to block the enemy. If the target was allowed a save it would have been more problematic, but as long as the ability does not allow a save making both Cavalier and Target locked in melee shoud be ok.
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Here's some toughs about Cavalier, BG2:EE, SCS/SR/KR/Refinements armor tweaks/aTweaks/IR Weapon Changes component.

Apart from the beforementioned issue of "Shield other" affecting enemies, it's a wonderful spell, with limitless possibilities. Forcing enemy thieves to waste backstabs on a full-plated--13AC-120HP paladin is beautiful, same as making mages chuck meteors at a character with -20 AC vs missiles. The spell kind of overlaps with Challenge Evil ability, but it's slightly more convinient since it doesn't require a to-hit roll. Fast casting time is just icing on the cake. I'd nerf it slightly, tbh - so it only affects a single target, and leave AoE to Challenge Evil.

3*** in weapon is a nice boon until level 13, after that it looses it's edge (haste adds only 1/2 apr then) a bit but extra damage is still nice, not to forget that level 13 is a long way from level 7.

Shield of faith, level 1 spell is exellent. My 1st level slots are filled with this spell alone, it lasts for a long time and is quite a boon, especially since it progresses into late-game.

Divine Retaliation - meh. I fixed it locally so it triggers correctly, but it triggers on a very rare occurence, Cavalier doesn't get hit nearly as much to make this of use...tweaking it to a level 4 and making it trigger when attacker attempts to harm Cavalier would indeed be much better. It does a fair deal of damage none the less, definitely deserves a place in spellbook.

I haven't progressed to level 4 spellslots, but Heroism seems nice on paper anyway.

Anyhow, a great revision. Truly a unique kit to play, and makes for amazing front-line combos with berserker/kensai which both benefit from added protection. For as long as one keeps him operational (protections against confusion/hold etc.) nobody dies on his watch :).

I hope True class gets something even remotely unique as Cavalier did.

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Cavalier

Apart from the beforementioned issue of "Shield other" affecting enemies, it's a wonderful spell, with limitless possibilities. Forcing enemy thieves to waste backstabs on a full-plated--13AC-120HP paladin is beautiful, same as making mages chuck meteors at a character with -20 AC vs missiles. The spell kind of overlaps with Challenge Evil ability, but it's slightly more convinient since it doesn't require a to-hit roll. Fast casting time is just icing on the cake. I'd nerf it slightly, tbh - so it only affects a single target, and leave AoE to Challenge Evil.
Well, keep in mind that compared to how it works right now on your install Shield Other is supposed to work only for allies adjacent to the Cavalier (aka 5 feet radius). Speaking of which, I cannot make it a single target spell and still make sure the ally needs to remain close to the Cavalier each round to benefit from it. Else I would have probably made it single target as per PnP from the start.

 

You are right about it partially overlapping with Challenge Evil, and we may think about something to differentiate them a bit more, but between the two I think Shield Other probably deserves to be the most effective variant as it can only be used 2-3 times per day, giving up on useful alternatives such as Draw Upon Divine Might.

 

3*** in weapon is a nice boon until level 13, after that it looses it's edge (haste adds only 1/2 apr then) a bit but extra damage is still nice, not to forget that level 13 is a long way from level 7.
Well, it is there to make clear the Cavalier has more martial training than common paladins, it is not intended to be a game-changing feature. That being said it is quite good to have even later on imo.

 

Shield of Faith, level 1 spell is exellent. My 1st level slots are filled with this spell alone, it lasts for a long time and is quite a boon, especially since it progresses into late-game.
I do expected this spell to be so good, especially considering its high synergy with the Cavalier's combat role, but is it too good? I actually nerfed it compared to PnP where it capped at +5 AC instead of +4, and could even be cast on others.

 

Divine Retaliation - meh. I fixed it locally so it triggers correctly, but it triggers on a very rare occurence, Cavalier doesn't get hit nearly as much to make this of use...tweaking it to a level 4 and making it trigger when attacker attempts to harm Cavalier would indeed be much better. It does a fair deal of damage none the less, definitely deserves a place in spellbook.
We already discussed this and I agreed on your point. Tweaking it as I suggested may actually turn it into a devastating 4th lvl spell imo when combined with Shield Other and Cavalier's supreme AC. We'll see. ;)

 

I haven't progressed to level 4 spellslots, but Heroism seems nice on paper anyway.
Yeah, and I guess it will look even better as a 3rd lvl spell. :D

 

Anyhow, a great revision. Truly a unique kit to play, and makes for amazing front-line combos with berserker/kensai which both benefit from added protection. For as long as one keeps him operational (protections against confusion/hold etc.) nobody dies on his watch :).
:)

 

True Paladin

I hope True class gets something even remotely unique as Cavalier did.
Does it mean the True Paladin doesn't look cool now? :( With the Cavalier losing both Turn Undead and Lay on Hands, the base class should be a bit more versatile (e.g. he can restore hit points, cure diseases and poisons by default with LoH, allowing him to memorize different spells), not to mention Smite Evil is supposed to be a great selling point (isn't it?). If we can still do something to improve the base class appeal I think it should be something involving his Divine Spellcasting (emphasizing versatility) or Smite Evil.

 

On a side note, we still have to differentiate each paladin a bit more when it comes to mid-late levels, giving them slightly different auras maybe, and a different early HLA at level 15.

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I don't abuse "Shield Other", party AoE makes no difference for me apart annoying overlay graphics on 5 party members. :(

Maybe a different tweak - I noticed this spell looses it's use against some tougher oponnents - anything blessed with the ability to see through invisibility makes it moot, kind of underwhelming when Demons/Mind Flayers come to play...so, what I'd suggest is a single-target "protection from creature - IDS enemy". Since this is abusive, I'd make it:

 

- short-lasting - 1 round

- disable spellcasting

- apr set to 0

- Cavalier's own movement speed set to 0

- Cavalier must be visible

- touch range

 

Net effect - enemies attack Cavalier, since he is the closest target

- shielded ally can only move into a more favourable position or heal in safety

 

P.S.

As for True class, he isn't bad - but he isn't as "good-looking" as Cavalier. Smite Evil is powerful, yes...but I'd still prefer Cavalier any given Sunday.

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