Revised Saving Throws tables

[yarpen]

I know it's not doable now, but to be honest:

I believe Saving Throw bonus should be moved to Charisma. That would make this extremally underwhelming stat actually matter in the slightest bit. Maybe that's a bit too stretching to connect those two stats but I still believe Charisma is the "personal power" or even "luck" and that would make it fine.

And then, if we could remove +2 bonus from Paladins, we'd bring it back in form of bonus from Charisma (and they have requirement of 17 Charisma). That would be nice... but again, undoable.

[Grammarsalad]

I know it's not doable now, but to be honest:

I believe Saving Throw bonus should be moved to Charisma. That would make this extremally underwhelming stat actually matter in the slightest bit. Maybe that's a bit too stretching to connect those two stats but I still believe Charisma is the "personal power" or even "luck" and that would make it fine.

And then, if we could remove +2 bonus from Paladins, we'd bring it back in form of bonus from Charisma (and they have requirement of 17 Charisma). That would be nice... but again, undoable.

 

Keep the dream alive! I feel bad about being such a damper earlier. And, who knows, maybe BGEE will externalize attributes to the point where this might be possible. Something like it is an old request on the BGEE forum.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, no one said you can't make a script that does the charisma = luck bonus. It should be easy actually... but the bonuses of it might make the game a little too easy, especially if you go and make the table be that of the 3ed ((CHA- 10)/2 = per +1). As then paladins would naturally have +3 or +4 to damage/Thac0/Saves etc.

[Grammarsalad]

Well, no one said you can't make a script that does the charisma = luck bonus. It should be easy actually... but the bonuses of it might make the game a little too easy, especially if you go and make the table be that of the 3ed ((CHA- 10)/2 = per +1). As then paladins would naturally have +3 or +4 to damage/Thac0/Saves etc.

 

Well, heck, then make every attribute useful, at least to some extent. (though, as you say, not 3ed levels)

[kreso]

I know it's not doable now, but to be honest:

I believe Saving Throw bonus should be moved to Charisma. That would make this extremally underwhelming stat actually matter in the slightest bit. Maybe that's a bit too stretching to connect those two stats but I still believe Charisma is the "personal power" or even "luck" and that would make it fine.

And then, if we could remove +2 bonus from Paladins, we'd bring it back in form of bonus from Charisma (and they have requirement of 17 Charisma). That would be nice... but again, undoable.

I think this is actually implemented in the game already. They have 17 Charisma minimum, and they get +2 to saves. Sure, bonus should be higher but one can envision that high Charisma on Paladins gives them great saves. The fact that game designers decided to do "pick class first, roll after" approach instead of regular PnP "roll, and if you're lucky you may get to be a Paladin" is nothing that we can do about.

[Grammarsalad]

I know it's not doable now, but to be honest:

I believe Saving Throw bonus should be moved to Charisma. That would make this extremally underwhelming stat actually matter in the slightest bit. Maybe that's a bit too stretching to connect those two stats but I still believe Charisma is the "personal power" or even "luck" and that would make it fine.

And then, if we could remove +2 bonus from Paladins, we'd bring it back in form of bonus from Charisma (and they have requirement of 17 Charisma). That would be nice... but again, undoable.

I think this is actually implemented in the game already. They have 17 Charisma minimum, and they get +2 to saves. Sure, bonus should be higher but one can envision that high Charisma on Paladins gives them great saves. The fact that game designers decided to do "pick class first, roll after" approach instead of regular PnP "roll, and if you're lucky you may get to be a Paladin" is nothing that we can do about.

It's only implemented if my cha 18 swashbuckler gets the bonus too...

[Valandil]

Hi Demi, I looked into the specific file of revised saves and I figured out the problem I had mentionned in the monk's forum. Btw I've got what you meant with your good/normal/bad saves' system. The monk's 6/6/6/6/6 were good then ^^. He still has the problem with 3%MR and the +2 bonus to all saves which are not implemented but about this last one, we can adapt them in the savemonk.2da at level14.

 

About the priests' saves problem that I had reported (4/6/6/8/6), I found them again and here is the misunterstanding.

In the forum's presentation every class except monk has 2 good, 2 bad and 1 normal. However the priest has 3 normal, 1 good and 1 bad but you've wrote "Priests: 13/15/13/17/15" which should correspond to good/normal/good/bad/normal.

 

In the saveprs.2da file, he has 13/15/15/17/15 but Poly saves should be 13 instead of 15 as each class has the same average. I'll fix it myself and hope it'll help you.

 

EDIT : you've already mentionned it in the KR's forum, sorry.

[DrAzTiK]

Does this revised saving throw also apply to ennemy or NPC ? Because in my new game, Minsc looks to have vanilla saving trow.

[Valandil]

Yes the revised saving throws, which are also implemented in Spell Revisions V4 beta 14, are applied to enemies and NPCs as well as every modifications (kits/classes) made by KR.

 

About Minsc, what's its level? 1? if so then it's totally normal coz saving throws will be readapted at each level up for each character.

[Mike1072]

Other characters' saving throw values will only be recalculated when they level up.

[DrAzTiK]

and what about enemies ?

[Jarno Mikkola]

and what about enemies ?

Never ever... unless you install SCS and it will only check if the current value is that it should be and if it's worse than what the tables show it should be, the .cre is edited, if it's better, nothing is done.

Well, yes, if you apply an effect(doom, potions etc), then that does what it says in the tin, but that's not table based either.

[Mike1072]

and what about enemies ?

They're unaffected.

 

For what it's worth, it is possible to update joinable NPCs so they start with the proper values, but enemies are a lot trickier. They weren't really designed to follow the same rules as players, so their saving throw values may be completely unrelated to their stated class and level.

[Valandil]

They're unaffected.

Even with SCS installed?

[Mike1072]

I took a look at SCS and Jarno is sort of right. The initial component appears to update the saving throws of all creatures by selecting the lower of (existing value) and (table value). However, this means it will only ever improve a creature's saving throws.

It seems to use the warrior tables for anything that doesn't have a normal class and it relies on the level specified in the file (after adjusting it to a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 40 if it's outside that range).