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Compatability with Rogue Rebalancing.


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A few people have asked me what would happen if they were to use this mod with aVENGER's Rogue Rebalancing mod from Forgotten Wars, which sets out to do a similar thing to this one...


At the moment I have not implemented HLAs or anything. So if you were to install RR and then S&S you would get the S&S changes with the RR HLAs. If you installed S&S and then RR you would get the new kits and RR HLAs, but changes to unmodded game kits would be as aVENGER's modifications.


I have managed to get in contact with aVENGER, and he has said he is happy for us to use Rogue Rebalancing's HLAs as a basis for Song and Silence. So, when we get round to doing HLAs, we will do so. :) aVENGER had a lot of good ideas in his mod but he has retired from the scene now. Though of course we have some ideas of our own to add!


To attempt to, us, condense this post into a short statement: When HLAs are implemented we will use aVENGER's work from Rogue Rebalancing as a basis, so if you are a fan of that mod you will most likely be happy with this one too.


EDIT: To save some people the confusion, note that aVENGER of Rogue Rebalancing fame is not the same guy as avenger of DLTC fame.

Edited by Andyr
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Over at Spellhold I saw that Ronin has done an update of aPack (ie rogue rebalancing) and is just waiting to hear from aVENGER. The update won't over write things anymore so should be compatible with many more mods.


But concerning S&S, what content compatibility issues are likely to arise? This would probably be best resolved if you and Ronin69Hof at Spellhold compared notes.


Does either mod, as far as you know, add in game content or just alter classes/kits/abilities?

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I am updating the apack, but to only make it compatible with other mods.. i.e. no overwriting, I am not changing the content at all. I plan on rereleasing it if I dont hear from aVENGER by the end of next week (his email address returns an unknown email).


If you are interested in improving the mod (HLA's and the such) you are more than welcome to, just PM me. I think its better to have one updated version floating around than 3 or 4 different versions.




**edit** one more thing, we could also work together to make apack and Song and Silence work together.

Edited by ronin69hof
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I've not done much regarding HLAs, as I don't often play ToB. Actually, I'd been interested in modifying his Blade stuff and adding it in to S&S, so perhaps we could compare notes on that if it's something you're messing with.


IIRC, all we currently use from aPack is the bugfixes.


aVENGER was, last I heard, still active at Missy's Lair (one of the communities which sprang up around the demise of BIS). It might be worth looking there... he used to be fairly active (I'd get PM replies within a few days), but I don't visit often any more so couldn't comment on him. http://www.mistresslair.net/forums/

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I have sent aVENGER a PM over at Mistresslair requesting permissionn to rerelease the apack. They have a new address so you can update your bookmarks: http://www.mistresslair.net/community/


It would be nice to compare notes with you, but first I would like to get the apack updated so people can actually use it again without it overwriting lots of files. Then I will take a look at making the content more actual.


Maybe we could somehow combine the two mods to make a RogueRemix, the encounters in the apack are pretty good when they dont overwrite files and the mod was, IMHO, very well done.



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That'd be a possibility, yes--if aVENGER's up for it.


What exactly are you changing? IIRC it was all WeiDU before, and I don't remember it overwriting much (then again I only really fiddled with the rogue stuff).

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Area's ar0329 was overwritten, aran02.cre, gaelan02.cre, booter2, arled, plus numerous others. BCS files for ar0312, 0328, 0329. HLA 2da's were overwritten, a few clab files and luba and luth were overwritten along with weapprof. The biggest problem tho was with the creatures, you couldnt even install BP on top of apack without it crapping out with invalid creature errors. I dont know exactly the problem was with aVENGER's creature files but by patching them instead of overwriting I dont get the errors anymore when installing BP afterwards. If/when aVENGER answers my PM I will be able to tell you more if we are able to work together or not.


So far the tp2 has gone from an origina line count of 412 to 2117 and I have about 10 creatures left to patch.



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Reports suggest that some of the Shadow Thief Improvements may be somewhat dubious. I advise caution if you're considering combining S&S with them.


I will agree, some of the Shadow Thief improvements are somewhat dubious. The shadow thieves have ueber stats and great weapon proficiencies. Right now I am not changing any content just updating like I already said.


@CamDawg, I added a note that the elven fixes are added by g3 fixpack but left it enabled in case someone still uses the bd-weidu or baldurdash.



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Reports suggest that some of the Shadow Thief Improvements may be somewhat dubious.

No, the Chosen of Cyric encounter is "somewhat dubious," by which I mean that it's unavoidable (unless you specifically lower the difficulty slider to avoid / postpone it), it takes place at a time when you are likely to be down at least 1 party member and have certainly exhausted most of your best spells/abilities, it overwrites your Auto-Save, and the enemies are prebuffed even though you're not allowed to be. On the plus side, I like that it's possible to talk your way out of the fight.


Going up against the Shadow Thief Improvements essentially boils down to facing away from your computer and bending over.

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I don't really think you need to cater for people using obsolete mods, but if there aren't any compatibility issues then I guess it doesn't do any harm to leave those components in.


Once the Fixpack comes out of beta then I will probably just comment out that section alltogether because then most everyone will be using the new fixpack.



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Since I've been contacted regarding this issue, I thought I'd respond here in case ronin missed my PM on Mistress Lair. While I do appreciate your interest in my mod, I'd rather have it remain "as is", without any more updates since I've decided not to develop it further a long time ago. If the changes to the game files introduced by my mod cause compatibility issues with any other mods, then the authors of said mods can freely state that it would be best to uninstall my mod (or some of its components) prior to installation of their own mods.



However, as I've already said to Andyr in our previous correspondence, he (and any other modders) is free to incorporate the more generic components of my mod into his own, as long as he leaves any of my own custom created content out of it. By custom created I mean things like my Chosen of Cyric NPCs and their dialogue and any of my custom items introduced by the mod. You are free to use any and all of my Thief and Bard enhancements and abilities, i.e. the dual wielding fix, the improved Bounty Hunter traps, the new Bard songs, the new HLA's...etc. as well as the Elven Charm/Sleep fix.

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