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piperb

[Pre-RC_Luridel] piperb's Playthrough

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-When the player flirts switch from the 1st to the 2nd level of flirts, the (Flirt with Aran) option appeared twice on the list in game.
The PC flirt option asking him to check her neck and he kisses instead, [a1290], was the last thing that came up. That was the first real contact between the PC and Aran.

From Miss Behave's feedback:

- After the morning after talk, the flirt option in the PID seems to be disabled.

 

OK. All three of these are symptoms of the same problem. In the first and cases, letting NPC-initiated flirting speed up or slow down the possible PC-initiated flirting responses has left a loophole with two possible "true" conditions on the first and no possible "true" conditions on the third. On the second, because two possible "true" states evaluate, if you take the second one, you get the "heavyweight" options, which shouldn't be available until there has been some holding of hands or physical interactions of some sort. In fact, by rebuilding player choice into the "sparring" talk, I have made it very likely that PCs who want to slow down the action or avoid it will have duplicate flirt lines in PID.

So, retthinking this...

/* PC Initiated Flirting; only one should be active at any given time. None show for males. */

/* PCIF 1 : PC wants to initiate a flirt : early (before the 3 friendtalks and lovetalks) : no action yet) */

/* PCIF 2 : PC wants to initiate a flirt : early (before the 3 friendtalks and lovetalks) : PC bedded him already) */

/* PCIF 3 : PC Wants To Initiate A Flirt : Broken Up */

/* PCIF 4 : PC Wants To Initiate A Flirt : Lightweight */

/* PCIF 5 : PC Wants To Initiate A Flirt : Heavyweight */

/* PCIF 6 : PC Wants To Initiate A Flirt : Mature */

/* PCIF 7 : PC Wants To Initiate A Flirt : But Aran Is Angry */ (handled within submenu)

 

a3296 = most results are uneasy but hinting he likes the attention.

a1074 = most results are lightweight.

a1075 = most results are lightweight and heavyweight.

a1076 = most results are heavyweight and mature.

 

PID flirts
TARGET TARGETSTATE GENDER ACTIONLEVEL ROMANCEACTIVE NOTFIGHTING LOVETALK_SCREEN
BeforeLTs - - - - - -
EarlyFlirt(noaction) a3296 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) GlobalLT("c-aransex","GLOBAL",4) - Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalLT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",3)
EarlyFlirt(PCbeddedhim) a1074 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",4) - Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalLT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",3)
LTsStarted - - - - - -
BrokenUp a3296 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) - Global(c-aranrom","GLOBAL",3) Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalGT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",2)
Lightweight(littleornocontact) a1074 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",1) !Global(c-aranrom","GLOBAL",3) Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalGT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",2)
Heavyweight(contactbutnotbedding) a1075 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",2)Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",3) !Global(c-aranrom","GLOBAL",3) Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalGT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",2)
Mature(bedding) a1076 Gender(Player1,FEMALE) !HasItemEquiped("belt05",Player1) Global("c-aransex","GLOBAL",4) !Global(c-aranrom","GLOBAL",3) Global("c-aranfight","GLOBAL",0) GlobalGT("c-aranbg2rom","GLOBAL",2)

 

 

If folks could look for any combination in which two of these become active, or worse, none become active, that would confirm my thinking. For females not wearing the girdle of gender-bender, RA = 1, 2, or 3. c-aransex = 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4.

 

In terms of the NPC-Initiated, flirts, they can be pushed into Heavyweight flirts by flirting with him more than a wole bunch of times. That may need adjustment, too.

 

[this is not yet on GitHub, but I will edit the post when I have sent it up]

 

but first - I guess the question is, can a player be broken up with Aran via flirting before she has had the first love talk? If so, that would be a loophole not covered under the above...

Edited by cmorgan

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Related or not?...Aran's talks were done before the end of Chapter 3, (installed 30 min timers and PC Female-no belt), and his flirts stopped. Wasn't hearing anything out of him, (towards the PC), but no var changed, (rom=2, etc). So did a clean install, then installed the Aran files you posted on 4-17, (used default timers), started new game. The random flirts didn't seem very random in the prev install, so I made notes on what appeared in this game. The earlyflirt local var=13, (all flirt related var below), and the not so random randomness is more pronounced in this game.

 

Examples:

 

2) (Brush your lips across his cheek.) [appeared 10 times in the second slot]

3) (Brush his hair back from his brow.) [appeared 8 times in the third slot]

 

These appeared the 6th, 7th, 9th & 10th time flirting with Aran = identical each time:

1) (Lean against him.)

2) (Brush your lips across his cheek.)

3) Come here, Aran. You have some tangles in your hair. [also appeared the 1st & 3rd times, in same slot]

4) (Smile boldly, and lower your eyelashes glancing down his body when he looks at you.) [also appeared the 1st & 4th times, in same slot]

5) Oh, dear. I just dropped a handkerchief on the ground.

 

PC - [1] (6th)

Aran's response: (His easy smile is bright on his face, but he moves away from you and adjusts his belt.)

PC - [3] (7th)

Aran's response: Do I, now? Right. I can comb that out myself. I'll be gettin' right on it.

PC - [1] (9th)

Aran's response: (His easy smile is bright on his face, but he moves away from you and adjusts his belt.)

PC - [2] (10th)

Aran's response: (He smiles at you, but moves away and rubs one hand behind his neck briskly.)

 

Same Aran responses keep appearing. With all the different options you have in the d file, seems like there should be much more variety in game. Several of those PC options/Aran responses have never appeared in any of my games...supposed to be that way?

 

Again, when the flirts switched from 1st to 2nd stage, the duplicate PC options appeared, (You decide to flirt with Aran). The duplicate options remained thruout the romance in prev install, (once both appeared on the list). Selecting the first one pulls up the same early flirts that had been appearing up to this point. Selecting the second one on the list pulls up the next stage of flirts.

 

(Have the entire list of what appeared each time PC flirted with him, if you want it.)

 

Flirt related var that have set so far: rom=1; aranflirt=2; flirtrap=1; heavylfirt=0; lightflirt=0; pcflirtstart=1; innflirt=1; flirt timers; and earlyflirt(locals)=13

 

PS: The inn flirt that comes up when you forcetalk Aran - PC chooses wearing the dress option. You may want to add a PC option for those who can't dance and don't drink alcohol, (a sit and talk sorta thing or something of that nature).

Edited by piperb

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Just a few thoughts and points to consider based on what has appeared in my games and some of these tie into Miss Behave's comments:

 

Leave less to the players imagination, sorta. There are many points where Aran goes from A to D, E, or F. Just put the B and C in to give an indication of what is supposed to be happening. It doesn't have to spelled out in detail in every exchange between Aran and the PC, but a small hint of which direction our imagination is supposed to be going in would be helpful.

 

What about the clumsy PC, (very low dex, accident prone). There may be some hero types that are not "graceful under fire". Think Gavin, but with a shapely figure...(His talk in the Bridge Dist made this thought come to mind.)

 

My fav, the prankster, trickster and/or thief PC. There's only one PC option in the flirts for a thief and one Aran response that's appeared in my games. Would like to see more teasing/playful PC options & Aran responses, (also Aran initiated), in game at various stages of the romance. Nothing mean, unless the PC is evil, just light-hearted playfulness. Even a hero half-goddess needs a distraction from time to time.

 

From friendship to very early romance, there seems to be less content for Aran. Maybe a few more options that are subtle, (no/minimal touching and/or no assertive actions, by PC or Aran.) Give more opportunities to drag out the relationship building portion of the romance, before contact occurs. Altho randonmess could make Aran more replayable, in some games there has been little relationship building because many/most first stage options were, I am guessing, skipped too soon. This leaves little in the way of options for those who are concentrated on relationship building and less on bedding him. Can't make him wait if the option to do so doesn't appear in game.

 

As Miss Behave said, more content please. We need more of Aran, not less. So please don't remove what you've already created for him. Just "flesh him out" a bit more. Every romance goes thru a building stage, even if the PC beds Aran right after meeting him. Well, unless she takes him along soley for the sex, that is...Which some will do. Relationship will be a mute point with them.

 

And lastly, having a silent Aran around for one or more chapters. It's a pretty drastic change in game...Loads of attention towards the PC, then nothing until ToB starts.

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While calls for new content are fine, be aware that it actually takes a phenomenal amount of time to write this kind of content, and cmorgan has already been working on Aran for years. Due to the nature of how Aran's talks are structured, they take a long time to write as they must account for a huge variety of possibilities, and in exchange for those options, as a necessity there has to be less content.

 

I'd much prefer cmorgan didn't kill himself trying to add new content to what is already an enormous mod. ;)

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Nobody wants cmorgan to work himself to death over his mod. Obviously the creation is supposed to be fun for him, not only for his sake but because the quality of the mod will suffer if his heart's not in it. I think the problem is that Aran is trying to fill a lot of shoes, depending on what the player wants. Friend, utility npc, bedroll warmer AND romance. Now I know cmorgan was saying re-playability is important, but what if the romance portion were more linear? Wouldn't that cut down on the workload while still providing a romance mod more along the lines of what players have come to expect? Aran already has a huge amount of goodies to offer in terms of situational talks, flirts etc. that keep things interesting over multiple play-throughs. I don't think it would take very many talks to make the romance girls happy, just filling in the gaps to help us get from A to D.

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Agreed. Ask for feedback and 9 times out of 10 you'll get it. What cmorgan does with the feedback is totally up to him. We all appreciate the massive amount of time and effort that was put into this mod, it shows. But, if at any point cmorgan gets tired of getting our feedback, I am sure he will let us know. Now, back to game issues...had an unusual thing happen in the Planar Prison. Lost Gavin and Aran, rez Gavin with rod, collected his gear, then rez Aran with rod. After the rez animation stopped I selected Aran but before I could direct him to pick up his gear the game CTD. I deleted everything in the cache, the temp folders and the auto save before reloading a previous save and all seems fine now. It will be Monday before I continue this game, husband's birthday and with everything that is going on I want to spend time with him. But, I will resume the game Monday and go back thru PP to see if it happens again. PC is Bard w/party Minsc, Aran, Gavin, Kivan, Yoshimo. Thought you should know about this in case anyone else has this happen.

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Points taken all around!

  • mod is already huge, and adfding more needs to be taken carefully, both from modder time and from cluttering the mod up (do too much scripting for players and it removes their imagination, and we are already way over a normal NPC mod's worth of interaction).
  • playtesters want more content because the interactions are leaving too much to the imagination without giving a hint as to the direction - a point that is pretty important, given that English will not be the 1st language of some players. And made possible because I gave stage directions, so on my own head be it!
  • New romance content could be (at least for v1) a more linear story, which means less in terms of "conversational net" and more in terms of "plot development". that is a tough one, as it does mean shoehorning PC into a "good" vs "Evil" path, at least at first. New friendtalk development could wait for a v2, or I could just cut back on player choice of timers, and set up 1.5 hours between friendtalks (which means 5 player real-time hours into the game before the first lovetalk) - current ly we have 11 for pre-chapter 5 (or in 6+ if slow or started late), up to 5 in underdark, and 3 post-underdark.
  • Related idea - Chapter Talks that reset the frindship talk timer and insert themselves into the flow might be a good way to accomplish these goals.

 

Given the feedback, I think we are close to a v1, with traification coming at v2 at the end of the summer. I do want to take a few weeks and take a pass at some of the points raised; first and foremost, the flirting appearing/duplicating/disappearing.

 

Fixes in to Github for the following, so when folks start a new game, there is new stuff:

 

Lost Gavin and Aran, rez Gavin with rod, collected his gear, then rez Aran with rod. After the rez animation stopped I selected Aran but before I could direct him to pick up his gear the game CTD.

I bet I know what that is - there is a special "gavin got resurrected" one-off talk that is supposed to play if Gavin is raised. My bet is that the moment Aran was raised, his .bcs called for the talk, but the engine had not yet registered that he was not dead, so... a "tried to initiate dialog with someone dead" crash. I will need to think about how to delay that.... perhaps a block at the top that says 'If dead in last script round, delay for a second or two before reading the rest of this .bcs". It may not be fixable, but i can ask some serious script gurus if it can be controlled for.

 

...random flirst not so random...

Ah, my old nemesis, the RandomNumberGenerator - the thing that keeps my ME3 manifest from its rightful completion, day after day, week after week...

 

Yes - the RNG I can't fx, but now that we have elevated the early flirts to cover more of the PC territory, the Illusion Of Player Choice becomes much more obvious! There were initially only four to eight possible end states for the "early" flirts, on the supposition that folks would move beyond them after 12 flirts, so putting more in there would be a waste of time and energy. Now that we are expanding to 14 to 16 or so, we needed more, so a recast.

Repairs: rebuilt the Early Flirts options with more possibilities. Several more. WARNING: there are still only 14 to 16 random end states, as some should indeed repeat. But I added more variety in the "approach" states (more things PC can do to flirt with Aran early) and more possible outcomes for the same actions (more reactions that Aran can have to the same action being repeated). BUT there is still some overlap; the idea is to expad the interactions as Aran becomes more familiar with the PC, so at the beginning, there will be much more smiling and moving away, whereas later there will probably be highly inappropriate (or very appropriate, depending on your point of view) interactions provoked. CAVEAT - now the Early and Lightweight PC-initiated flirts are more varied than the Heavyweight/Mature levels. I might go back later and add, but I am shamelessly guessing that if players get tired of the Heavyweight/mature flirts, they will take advantage of the mature content and work through all the ways Aran and PC can play about in the bedroll/swimming/baths/etc.

 

Still working through the swimming materials, and tracking what went hinkey - adding action shorthand, so if someone is giving feedback on the code, I am using

 

pc_c_b ("pc" "clothed" "bank") | pc_c_w ("pc" "clothed" "water") | pc_u_b ("pc" "unclothed" "bank") | pc_u_w ("pc" "unclothed" "water")

aw_c_b etc.

 

on the exit states to track where the mis-mapped entries have cropped up.

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Related idea - Chapter Talks that reset the frindship talk timer and insert themselves into the flow might be a good way to accomplish these goals..

 

Love this idea

 

Lost Gavin and Aran, rez Gavin with rod, collected his gear, then rez Aran with rod. After the rez animation stopped I selected Aran but before I could direct him to pick up his gear the game CTD.

I bet I know what that is - there is a special "gavin got resurrected" one-off talk that is supposed to play if Gavin is raised. My bet is that the moment Aran was raised, his .bcs called for the talk, but the engine had not yet registered that he was not dead, so... a "tried to initiate dialog with someone dead" crash. I will need to think about how to delay that.... perhaps a block at the top that says 'If dead in last script round, delay for a second or two before reading the rest of this .bcs". It may not be fixable, but i can ask some serious script gurus if it can be controlled for.

 

You may be on to something here. Went thru PP again purposely lost Gavin and Aran. This time Rez Aran first, collected his gear, then Rez Gavin - didn't get the Rez Gavin talk, but one of Aran's flirts appeared so that could be why...Either way, it didn't CTD.

 

...now the Early and Lightweight PC-initiated flirts are more varied than the Heavyweight/Mature levels. I might go back later and add, but I am shamelessly guessing that if players get tired of the Heavyweight/mature flirts, they will take advantage of the mature content...

 

That should fill in the blanks a lot better with the early stage romance. You have a huge amount of mature content included and it would surprise me if players got bored with it too quickly.

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Some new fixes up and tested on GitHub - still working on some - will report whenI can post details.

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Husband got checked today and no sign of cancer!!! Maintainance treatments periodically is all he will have to do now as long as it doesn't come back again. So, things here should calm down. Will download the new file and start a new game with a clean install tomorrow. :)

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CONGRATULATIONS!!

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Well, dowloaded the new files you posted, clean install, new game and all was fine until the party tried to enter The Broken Sword from the Promenade...game CTD. First time I recall that happening at this point in game. Any suggestions/solutions?

Edited by piperb

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That is interesting. I'll give it a shot on my game, but I don't have much more than a generic "delete everything, reinstall or drop the backed up vanilla fixpacked game into place, and try again"... nothing I changed should touch anything that could result in a CTD uunless there was a glitch in the area. Hold on, I'll be right back...

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Well, clean install on testbed, and i can replicate this. Funny thing is, no errors detected by DLTCEP or NI on installed script, WED, area, etc. But, CTD on going from AR0700 to C-AR01 or just jumping from prologue to C-AR01. That is usually area-corruption related.

 

Let me work on this for a bit. Not sure what is going on, since nothing that has been done has changed anything related to this.

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...and now i am really stumped. CamDawg's Debugging tool shows no problems with AR0700 or C-AR01 at all -

AR0607.ARE error: Map Notes offset is incorrect

Appending to files ...

[./override/DEBUGGER.LOG] loaded, 21282 bytes

Appended text to [debugger.log]

[./override/AR0700.ARE] loaded, 45228 bytes

[./override/AR0700.bcs] loaded, 13237 bytes

[./override/AR0700.bcs] loaded, 13237 bytes

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD5\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD4\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD3\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD2\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD2\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD1\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF]

[G:\BGII - SoA\/DATA/DIALOG.BIF] 4557664 bytes, 2729 files, 0 tilesets

[./override/TOWNC01.cre] loaded, 1096 bytes

[./override/TOWNC01.cre] loaded, 1096 bytes

[./override/c-ar01.are] loaded, 10228 bytes

[./override/c-ar01.are] loaded, 10228 bytes

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD5\/DATA/AREA0700.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD4\/DATA/AREA0700.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD3\/DATA/AREA0700.BIF]

BIFF may be in hard-drive CD-path [G:\BGII - SoA\CD2\/DATA/AREA0700.BIF]

[G:\BGII - SoA\CD2\/DATA/AREA0700.BIF] 36358768 bytes (compressed), 73 files, 2 tilesets

 

moving on to search for other instances where installations consitently CTD.

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