Jump to content

Class Description Template


Demivrgvs

Class Description Template  

16 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

The following description templates are not to be considered finished, just consider them as examples to describe the main differences between the various solutions.

 

After having decided which solution I should pursue we can discuss less macroscopic things(e.g. should I use "- At 3rd level, ..." or "Level 3: ..."?) and even the details if you wish so (e.g. should I say "may use Rage" or "can use Rage"?).

 

Base class template

 

VANILLA STYLE

This is the style used by pretty much all vanilla classes/kits.

 

Advantages:

- Can use Barbarian Rage once per day per every 4 levels, starting with one use at level one.

When enraging, the barbarian gains an extra attack per round and a +2 bonus to damage, AC, movement rate, and saving throws versus breath, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. However, the barbarian will also be unable to perform actions that require concentration, like activating item's abilities or remaining hidden.

After 5 rounds, the enrage effect wears off and the user becomes fatigued for 5 rounds. While fatigued, the barbarian suffers a -2 penalty to AC, damage, and attack rolls and cannot re-enter the enraged state.

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- Base movement speed is increased by 20%.

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- At 3rd level, if the barbarian deals a creature enough damage to kill it, he gets an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

- At 5th level, the barbarian can fight without penalties even if unable to see

- At 6th level, an enraged barbarian can detect invisible creatures within 20 feet

- At 8th level, an enraged barbarian is immune to fear effects

- At 10th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +3 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

- At 11th level, the barbarian gains 10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing, and missile damage. At 14th, and 17th level, this increases by an additional 5%.

- At 15th level, can use Whirlwind Attack ability once per day

- At 19th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +4 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

 

Disadvantages:

- Cannot wear plate mail or full plate armor.

- Limited to specialization (++) in weapons.

- Cannot dual class.

 

 

 

REVISED STYLE

This is a sort of hybrid style between vanilla BG and 3E-like class advancement tables (such as this). Vanilla BG used this solution for kitted clerics, and aVENGER used it for Rogue Rebalancing.

 

Advantages:

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- At 1st level can use Barbarian Rage once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter.

- At 2nd level gains Swift Foot rage power.

- At 3rd level, gains Cleave feat.

- At 5th level, gains Blind-Fight feat.

- At 6th level, gains Scent rage power.

- At 8th level, gains Fearless rage power.

- At 10th level, gains Greater Rage.

- At 11th level, gains 10% resistance to slashing, piercing, crushing, and missile damage. At 14th, and 17th level, this increases by an additional 5%.

- At 15th level, can use Whirlwind Attack ability once per day.

- At 19th level, gains Mighty Rage.

 

Disadvantages:

- Cannot wear plate mail or full plate armor.

- Limited to specialization (++) in weapons.

- Cannot dual class.

 

 

BARBARIAN RAGE: When enraging, the barbarian gains an extra attack per round and a +2 bonus to damage, AC, movement rate, and saving throws versus breath, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. However, the barbarian will also be unable to perform actions that require concentration, like activating item's abilities or remaining hidden.

After 5 rounds, the enrage effect wears off and the user becomes fatigued for 5 rounds. While fatigued, the barbarian suffers a -2 penalty to AC, damage, and attack rolls and cannot re-enter the enraged state.

 

SWIFT FOOT: barbarian's base movement speed is increased by 20%, and by further 20% when enraged.

 

CLEAVE: If the barbarian deals a creature enough damage to kill it, he gets an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

 

BLIND FIGHT: the barbarian can fight without penalties even if unable to see.

 

SCENT: an enraged barbarian can detect invisible creatures within 20 feet.

 

FEARLESS RAGE: an enraged barbarian is immune to fear effects.

 

GREATER RAGE: At 10th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +3 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

 

MIGHTY RAGE: At 19th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +4 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

 

The advantage of this solution is more evident for classes with many new features and abilities which need lengthy descriptions, because with vanilla's template they end up having a single huge wall of text. The disadvantage is that it may look "mod added", especially until this mod will include all classes, and that the description might be more easy to read, but it's actually longer (and I even fear there's a limit to how long it can be).

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kit template

 

"Advantages & Disadvantages"

Taking for example the current Berserker. This is how it looks:

 

Advantages:

- At 1st level, can use Berserker Rage once per day. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day. This ability improves significantly at levels 5, 10, and 19.

- At 11th level, the berserker is able to regain 1 hit point every 3 rounds. At 14th and 17th level, the hit points restored increase by 1.

- At 15th level, can use Power Attack once per day.

 

Disadvantages:

- May go berserk.

- Cannot use missile weapons.

- Cannot use Defensive Stance.

- Cannot use Called Shot.

 

 

 

"Class Features"

And this is how it would look with his own full class description:

 

Class Features:

- Rolls d10 for hit points.

- Can achieve grandmastery (+++++) in any melee weapon proficiency.

- Can wear all types of armor.

- May go berserk.

- At 1st level, can use Offensive Stance at will. This ability improves significantly at levels 10 and 19.

- At 1st level, can use Berserker Rage once per day. For every 4 levels, the ability can be used an additional time per day. This ability improves significantly at levels 5, 10, and 19.

- At 7th level, gains an additional half attack per round. This increases to an additional whole attack per round at 13th level.

- At 11th level, the berserker is able to regain 1 hit point every 3 rounds. At 14th and 17th level, the hit points restored increase by 1.

- At 15th level, can use Power Attack once per day.

 

Link to comment

There might be an advantage to keeping all of the info related to a single ability in a single spot. I'd like to know what rages are and in what way they improve with levels without scrolling up and down and trying to keep track of it in my head.

Link to comment
There might be an advantage to keeping all of the info related to a single ability in a single spot.
There would be yeah, and hopefully you won't be using this expression:
<ability> once per day per every 4 levels, starting with one use at level one.
And then summarily suppress the inclinations of it... you probably will do better by starting with:
- Gains use of ... at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 21, 25, 29, 33, 37, 41, 45 and 49.
... if you intent to express the same thing.
Link to comment

I've been suggesting the 3E template, but I think the hybrid version is equally good.

Vanilla template is good in a sense it provides a detailed step-by-step description, but I think it fails to deliver the overall picture when there're many abilities to list.

 

I tend to agree with Jarno

Advantages:

- Can use Barbarian Rage once per day per every 4 levels, starting with one use at 1st level.

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- At 2nd level gains Swift Foot rage power.

Advantages:

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- At 1st level can use Barbarian Rage once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter.

- At 2nd level gains Swift Foot rage power.

Link to comment
There might be an advantage to keeping all of the info related to a single ability in a single spot. I'd like to know what rages are and in what way they improve with levels without scrolling up and down and trying to keep track of it in my head.
Do you mean something like this?

 

 

BARBARIAN RAGE: When enraging, the barbarian gains an extra attack per round and a +2 bonus to damage, AC, movement rate, and saving throws versus breath, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. However, the barbarian will also be unable to perform actions that require concentration, like activating item's abilities or remaining hidden.

After 5 rounds, the enrage effect wears off and the user becomes fatigued for 5 rounds. While fatigued, the barbarian suffers a -2 penalty to AC, damage, and attack rolls and cannot re-enter the enraged state.

At 10th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +3 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

At 19th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +4 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

 

I do see your point, but without separate entries how do I reference the various upgrade (e.g. Greater Rage) in the "easy to read" advancement table?

 

It's even harder to do imo if I include there all the rage powers. What are you proposing exactly?

 

I tend to agree with Jarno
Advantages:

- Can use Barbarian Rage once per day per every 4 levels, starting with one use at 1st level.

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- At 2nd level gains Swift Foot rage power.

Advantages:

- Is immune to backstabbing.

- Rolls d12 for hit points.

- At 1st level can use Barbarian Rage once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter.

- At 2nd level gains Swift Foot rage power.

The latter is indeed better than my first draft.
Link to comment
There might be an advantage to keeping all of the info related to a single ability in a single spot. I'd like to know what rages are and in what way they improve with levels without scrolling up and down and trying to keep track of it in my head.
Do you mean something like this?

 

 

BARBARIAN RAGE: When enraging, the barbarian gains an extra attack per round and a +2 bonus to damage, AC, movement rate, and saving throws versus breath, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. However, the barbarian will also be unable to perform actions that require concentration, like activating item's abilities or remaining hidden.

After 5 rounds, the enrage effect wears off and the user becomes fatigued for 5 rounds. While fatigued, the barbarian suffers a -2 penalty to AC, damage, and attack rolls and cannot re-enter the enraged state.

At 10th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +3 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

At 19th level, the benefits gained from enraging increase to a +4 bonus to damage, AC, and saving throws versus breath.

Yeah, something like that.

 

I do see your point, but without separate entries how do I reference the various upgrade (e.g. Greater Rage) in the "easy to read" advancement table?

 

It's even harder to do imo if I include there all the rage powers. What are you proposing exactly?

The lines in the table could easily be made redundant. Why not drop them? The upgrades are important to the ability, but it's the ability itself that's important to the kit/class.

 

Note that the table as presented already misses some features of the class, like extra attacks per round. There are a lot of hidden class features which are not described in the game, like proficiency point allotment, hit points per level (especially the effect of CON bonuses and the changes after level ~10), and the general trend of saving throws and THAC0. I think these are worth mentioning, just not on a level-by-level basis.

 

I think we should also address what constitutes a disadvantage. The disadvantages listed by vanilla kits include everything that the parent class has that the kit doesn't. If KR gives abilities to unkitted classes without giving them to their kits, it would probably be easiest to abandon this method of describing disadvantages, and switch to a method that treats kits and unkitted classes equally. Each kit and class has their own hitpoints and access to weapons, armor, and specialization. I think these should be features rather than advantages/disadvantages. Perhaps the concept of advantages/disadvantages is only relevant to how these kits and unkitted classes measure up against multiclasses.

Link to comment

You may also want to consider whether it is worthwhile to describe bonuses/abiltiies as "feats." This seems odd as there is nowhere in the game that the player is presented with a list of possessed "feats" or the ability to choose/interact with "feats" possessed by a character.

Link to comment
Note that the table as presented already misses some features of the class, like extra attacks per round. There are a lot of hidden class features which are not described in the game, like proficiency point allotment, hit points per level (especially the effect of CON bonuses and the changes after level ~10), and the general trend of saving throws and THAC0. I think these are worth mentioning, just not on a level-by-level basis.
I agree in theory, but these are the basics of ADnD. Do we really have to add such things in the description? Mind you, I do like the idea in general, but we'd need a real table to represent it in an easy to read format.

 

I think we should also address what constitutes a disadvantage. The disadvantages listed by vanilla kits include everything that the parent class has that the kit doesn't. If KR gives abilities to unkitted classes without giving them to their kits, it would probably be easiest to abandon this method of describing disadvantages, and switch to a method that treats kits and unkitted classes equally. Each kit and class has their own hitpoints and access to weapons, armor, and specialization. I think these should be features rather than advantages/disadvantages. Perhaps the concept of advantages/disadvantages is only relevant to how these kits and unkitted classes measure up against multiclasses.
Agreed.
Link to comment
Note that the table as presented already misses some features of the class, like extra attacks per round. There are a lot of hidden class features which are not described in the game, like proficiency point allotment, hit points per level (especially the effect of CON bonuses and the changes after level ~10), and the general trend of saving throws and THAC0. I think these are worth mentioning, just not on a level-by-level basis.
I agree in theory, but these are the basics of ADnD. Do we really have to add such things in the description? Mind you, I do like the idea in general, but we'd need a real table to represent it in an easy to read format.
Like say the Fighter base kit description... ?!?

Also the kits should kinda have the base classes description attached too, just like the duals and multies have the two of theirs. And their(duals & multies) descriptions could use some tweaking to clear out the rules on HPs, HLAs etc.

Link to comment
I do see your point, but without separate entries how do I reference the various upgrade (e.g. Greater Rage) in the "easy to read" advancement table?
The lines in the table could easily be made redundant. Why not drop them? The upgrades are important to the ability, but it's the ability itself that's important to the kit/class.
I'm tempted to agree, but not enough. If I don't list what you get at each level (e.g. at 4th lvl you get Fearless Rage) in the advancement table and put most of the "upgrades" only in the ability description than I feel we're at square one: you have to read a huge wall of text to track down what you are exactly getting at xth lvl (e.g. somewhere in the middle of a huge BARBARIAN RAGE description there's a "at 4th lvl an enraged barbarian is immune to fear" line). Am I wrong?

 

Note that the table as presented already misses some features of the class, like extra attacks per round.
Actually I do list extra attacks per round in the table of True Fighters because it already doesn't use 'advantages/disadvantages' but just 'class features' (all fighter kits are based upon this table, and I give for granted that anything not listed under "disadvantages" is granted to the kit too). If we end up opting for using the 'class features' solution for all classes then I would probably mention it for all warriors.

 

P.S @Jarno, as you see I'm more or less with you on this matter. ;)

 

There are a lot of hidden class features which are not described in the game, like proficiency point allotment, hit points per level (especially the effect of CON bonuses and the changes after level ~10), and the general trend of saving throws and THAC0. I think these are worth mentioning, just not on a level-by-level basis.
We actually discussed it with Arda some time ago, and I had a table with these things listed. Most of them (if not all) are not difficult to write down within KR (e.g. saves improve too much "randomly" in vanilla but with KR you have the base saves and then just +1 to all saves every odd lvl), but I think I discarded it either because it was looking too much "3e-like" and "mod added" or because it was causing the class description to be be longer than the allowed maximum length for a string reference.

 

It would simply mean turning this:

 

- Can achieve grandmastery (+++++) in any weapon proficiency.

- Can use all types of armor.

- Rolls d10 for hit points.

 

Into something like this:

 

WEAPON PROFICIENCY: Can achieve grandmastery (+++++) in any weapon proficiency. Starts with 4 prof points at 1st level and gain one more point every 3 levels.

 

ARMOR PROFICIENCY: Can use all types of armor.

 

HIT POINTS: Rolls d10 for hit points up to 10th level. At 10th+ levels gains +3 hp per level.

 

THAC0: gains +1 bonus to THAC0 at every level.

 

SAVES: "this line will indeed require some discussion"

 

 

 

I think we should also address what constitutes a disadvantage. The disadvantages listed by vanilla kits include everything that the parent class has that the kit doesn't. If KR gives abilities to unkitted classes without giving them to their kits, it would probably be easiest to abandon this method of describing disadvantages, and switch to a method that treats kits and unkitted classes equally. Each kit and class has their own hitpoints and access to weapons, armor, and specialization. I think these should be features rather than advantages/disadvantages. Perhaps the concept of advantages/disadvantages is only relevant to how these kits and unkitted classes measure up against multiclasses.
I agree, though the 'advantages/disadvantages' template should make easier for players to quickly compare the kits to the base class (or other kits), whereas having a 'class features' for all kits makes it much harder imo to understand "what you get and what you loose" with each kit. I may add a second poll question on this matter...

 

You may also want to consider whether it is worthwhile to describe bonuses/abiltiies as "feats." This seems odd as there is nowhere in the game that the player is presented with a list of possessed "feats" or the ability to choose/interact with "feats" possessed by a character.
As I said the templates showed in the first post were just drafts I'll update them to follow what we are discussing. That being said, I was just using the term "feat" not because there's an actual list of feats but to differentiate those features:

- ability: an x/day ability

- feat: a permanent feature of the class

- rage power: an upgrade/feat which is only applied while enraged

I may as well discard the term if we feel it's not worthwhile to do such distinction.

Link to comment
P.S @Jarno, as you see I'm more or less with you on this matter. ;)
:the Imp puts a wild smirk on it's face: We'll see. Almost there, you are almost insanethere.

 

ARMOR PROFICIENCY: Can use all types of armor.
Just note that this is false adverticement(in the vanilla game at least) ... as the fact is, they can't use robes, which are in fact mage type armors, armor slot and all.
Link to comment

Ok, the hybrid template seems to have won for now. Let's see if I get it right and what I need to refine or fix.

 

I'll start from the base class to determine the overall template.

 

Class Features:

- Rolls d10 for hit points.

- Can achieve grandmastery (+++++) in any weapon proficiency.

- Can use all types of armor.

- At 1st level, can use Offensive Stance and Defensive Stance at will.

- At 4th level, can use Called Shot once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter, up to 4 times per day at 16th level.

- At 5th level, becomes proficient (+) in the use of all types of weapons.

- At 7th level, gains an additional half attack per round. This increases to a whole attack per round bonus at 13th level.

- At 10th level, gains Improved Called Shot.

- At 11th level, gains the Tactician trait.

- At 14th level, gains the Expert Tactician trait.

- At 15th level, can use Hardiness HLA once per day

- At 17th level, gains the Master Tactician trait.

- At 19th level, gains Greater Called Shot.

 

OFFENSIVE STANCE:

While using an offensive stance, the character gains +2 bonus to damage, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. Every other nine levels damage bonus and attack roll penalty increase by one, up to +4 bonus to damage and -4 penalty to attack rolls at 19th level. The Fighter remains in this stance for 6 rounds, and cannot combine it with Defensive Stance.

 

DEFENSIVE STANCE:

While using a defensive stance, the character gains +2 bonus to AC, but suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls. Every other nine levels armor class bonus and attack roll penalty increase by one, up to +4 bonus to AC and -4 penalty to attack rolls at 19th level. The Fighter remains in this stance for 6 rounds, and cannot combine it with Offensive Stance.

 

CALLED SHOT: An experienced Fighter can aim his attacks more precisely, targeting a particular part of the body in order to gain various combat advantages from the attacks.

When this ability is activated, any attack made within the next round is made at -4 penalty to attack rolls, and the first successful hit is augmented in the following manner (according to targeted area):

Arm: -2 penalty to target's thac0 for 4 rounds

Leg: target's movement rate is halved for 4 rounds

 

IMPROVED CALLED SHOT: A veteran Fighter can land even more precise and lethal hits.

Called Shot attacks now have the following additional effects:

Arm: target must save vs. death or be unable to attack for 2 rounds

Leg: target must save vs. breath or be knocked down for 1 round

 

TACTICIAN:

Allies within 15 feet from the fighter get +1 bonus to attack rolls. Multiple bonuses from different fighters stack.

 

EXPERT TACTICIAN:

Allies within 15 feet from the fighter get +1 bonus to AC.

 

HARDINESS:

This ability grants the warrior 20% resistance to all forms of damage for 10 rounds.

 

MASTER TACTICIAN:

Allies within 15 feet from the fighter get +1 bonus to damage rolls.

 

GREATER CALLED SHOT:

Called Shot attacks now have the following additional effects:

Arm: targets who fail the save vs. death have their strength reduced to 50% for 1 turn

Leg: targets who fail the save vs. breath have their dexterity reduced to 50% for 1 turn

I'll list down all my doubts in no particular order.

 

1) "- at xth level, gains..." or "- xth level: gains..."? I think vanilla game had more instances of the first form, while BGEE uses the latter more.

 

2) BGEE replaced all instances of "Can use..." with "May use...", is there a point behind this change?

 

3) I'll use Called Shot as example. Mike suggested to keep all infos about an ability and its upgrades as close as possible to each other. So, my current solution is having this...

 

- At 4th level, can use Called Shot once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter, up to 4 times per day at 16th level.

...

- At 10th level, gains Improved Called Shot.

...

- At 19th level, gains Greater Called Shot.

...and then describe each upgrade with a separate entry.

I guess the alternative is having something like this:

 

- At 4th level, can use Called Shot once per day, and gains one extra use of this ability for every 4 levels thereafter, up to 4 times per day at 16th level. This ability further improves at 10th and 19th level.

...and describe everything within the same entry, like this:

 

CALLED SHOT: An experienced Fighter can aim his attacks more precisely, targeting a particular part of the body in order to gain various combat advantages from the attacks.

When this ability is activated, any attack made within the next round is made at -4 penalty to attack rolls, and the first successful hit is augmented in the following manner (according to targeted area):

Arm: -2 penalty to target's thac0 for 4 rounds

Leg: target's movement rate is halved for 4 rounds

 

At 10th level, Called Shot attacks have the following additional effects:

Arm: target must save vs. death or be unable to attack for 2 rounds

Leg: target must save vs. breath or be knocked down for 1 round

 

At 19th level, Called Shot attacks have the following additional effects:

Arm: targets who fail the save vs. death have their strength reduced to 50% for 1 turn

Leg: targets who fail the save vs. breath have their dexterity reduced to 50% for 1 turn

I know the latter solution has some merit but I don't like how vague the "This ability further improves at 10th and 19th level." line sounds, and the huge wall of text of describing all the upgrades together. Is it just me? Which solution do you prefer?

 

4) tell me everything you'd like to see corrected or improved, and re-write my lines or ability descriptions if you think you can put them down in a better form. :)

Link to comment
- Can use all types of armor.
This is a false statement as you would have known had you actually read the post above that post.

 

It should go something alike:

- Can/May use most Leather, Chain, Scale and Plate Armors.

 

The "most" is there to also exclude the non-dwarves using the a dwarf-only type armors etc.

Link to comment
- Can use all types of armor.
This is a false statement as you would have known had you actually read the post above that post.

 

It should go something alike:

- Can/May use most Leather, Chain, Scale and Plate Armors.

 

The "most" is there to also exclude the non-dwarves using the a dwarf-only type armors etc.

I do read your post and willingly ignored you and considered your statement the usual imp provocation. :D Was I wrong?

 

My statement (which, mind you, has been THE statement since 1st edition) remains true: fighters can use all types of armor. It may happen they cannot use a particular armor (e.g. a dwarven full plate only dwarves can use), but they can actually use the type of armor that mail belongs to (heavy armor).

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...