Kit Revisions Beta 20

[Demivrgvs]

The Cavalier-only 1st level spell is Shield of Faith, while Heroism is a unique 4th level spell in the current beta (it's a kinda great spell imo as it works as a sort of Bless + Mass Aid).

Makes sense as I imagine heroism would be rather powerful. I'm just going off the first page description which seems to state you get a single use at character level 4, not whenever you level up enough to be able to cast 4th level priest spells.

Sorry, the on-line description was not up to date and with EE not showing the correct description after character creation I guess it's hard for you to know what the class is supposed to get. Anyway, I've updated Paladin's topic now, and by doing so I've realized that I need to refine certain things:

- as others as suggested I should probably mention kits getting unique spells (e.g. Cavalier getting Shield of faith, Shield Other, Divine Retaliation and Heroism)

- Inquisitor's True Seeing description should be tweaked to match its new behaviour

- etc.

 

I have a 'Lay on Hands Amount: 8' listed on his character record, but no actual ability to use Lay on Hands yet if that's supposed to be something else later down the line.

At which level are you getting it? Within KR you don't get LoH until level 3, and to have LoH 8 you should be level 4 (be it vanilla or KR). Btw, the relative 2da isn't even used afaik, I don't know why it is referenced at all, perhaps just to show that parameter within the character screen?

 

Edit: I'm an idiot, Cavalier does not get LoH anymore since he got his spells back. I've corrected its description again. Sorry.

 

For some reason you get all kind of text displays at level up, but they don't seem to take actual changes into account. I think it's an EE-only issue, but it's not a big deal anyway I hope.

 

I've definitely noticed in the combat log the +2 bonus to hit against evil creatures, I can't really say I've ever seen targets being forced to fight my cavalier, but I'll assume it's working. Out of curiosity, should it only make them save or fight if they're dealt damage or will a successful hit against a mage stoneskin for example force him to stay there?

Challenge Evil doesn't use a "attack nearest enemy" opcode anymore because it had the potential to screw the AI, but we are trying to keep the ability behavior the same with a more refined workaround:

- when you hit an enemy with this ability the target creature cannot move for 1 round, giving your ally some time to get cover

- furthermore your allies within target's melee reach get a "protection from creature" effect for 2 seconds, making them "undetectable by enemy". This should pretty much force the target to attack the Cavalier as he remains the only valid "enemy" the AI can detect.

 

Challenge Evil bypasses Stoneskin. When it forced the target to attack in melee via berserk opcode we discussed to make it not work on spellcasters, but the way it works now it may be fine as it is because a targeted mage can still fight with his spells. Playtesting will decide further tweaking to this ability anyway (not to mention it still needs a mid-level upgrade).

 

It has been suggested to make Heroism a 3rd level spell and I may opt for that just because I'd like to have it available for mid game. That means Divine Retaliation would be moved up to 4th level, but I have some in mind to try making it worth such a spell slot (e.g. instead of damaging those who effectively strike the Cavalier in melee, I think I can make it affect anyone who attacks the Cavalier in melee even when such attacks miss - which would be huge plus imo considering Cavalier's outstanding AC).

Like this idea a lot. Doesn't Fireshield behave in the same manner where you don't have to score a hit, but just try to melee attack someone with it on and you'll take retributive damage?

Afair Fireshields damage targets only when they successfully hit the protected creatures. Such behavior is fine to protect mages under Stoneskin or PfMW, but as Kreso noticed it is sub-optimal for our Cavalier who has probably become the best tank in the game and gets so rarely hit that a Fireshield-like effect is not going to trigger much.

 

You mean the Cavalier portrait icon when activating Challenge Evil shows Disease (icon or text?) instead of "Smite"? o.O I don't know what could cause that, the files look fine. Kreso would have surely noticed it imo, thus I assume it's a EE-related issue. Can anyone else reproduce it?

Yes, linking to screenshots like I should have done originally. This is on 1.2.2031.

So, if Kreso is right this happens on BGEE (because it does not include HLAs portrait icons) but not BGEE2, correct? I don't get why it display disease icon though...it should not display any icon if anything. o.O

 

Edit2: on a side note, when it comes to Tracking, what about replacing the current Defensive Stance portrait icon with Perception (57)? The icon is the same used by SR's True Strike, but the text on character screen should display "Perception" which is rather fitting imo.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Demivrgvs

[kreso]

I tried a few things regarding this icons in BG EE. All of the icons do exist in the game itself, they can be used (even those which HLAs use) but they don't have any text beneath them on character screen. Why "Smite" says "diseased" is completely unknown to me. If I change the icon to "Asassination" it says nothing, and same happens with other HLAs I tried.

But this is such a minor cosmetic issue which one will notice only if he checks out character screen after he uses the ability.

 

I don't get why it display disease icon though...it should not display any icon if anything. o.O

It displays the Smite icon, just the text below the "little red smite picture on character screen" is messed up. You are correct that it shouldn't display any text, since other HLAs don't. It's the same thing as with fighter's combat stances, combat log will display "Defensive stance" and if you enter character screen you'll read "defensive spin".

And yeah, Smite/Diseased only occurs in BG1 EE.

"Lay on Hands" message is displayed when Cavalier levels up, on all installs. it says "LoH ammount increased by 2" or similar, in the box where you see how many HP etc. you got on level up. Inquisitors, even tough they get LoH, don't get this message on level-up, which makes me believe this is hardcoded into all paladin kits apart Inq since he didn't have it in vanilla.

[kreso]

Cavalier's "Shield Other" spell affects enemies as well. I've checked it's pro file, it's correctly flagged to affect allies only, but it doesn't. I've tweaked the spell itself to target "party", but it's quite sub-optimal solution, since it affects everyone regardless of their position.

[Demivrgvs]

Cavalier's "Shield Other" spell affects enemies as well. I've checked it's pro file, it's correctly flagged to affect allies only, but it doesn't. I've tweaked the spell itself to target "party", but it's quite sub-optimal solution, since it affects everyone regardless of their position.

Man it doesn't make any sense. The spell looks fine, the projectile is fine as well as you noticed. What the hell is going on? o.O

[kreso]

Have no idea. I tested this on all installs (BGT, EE, EE2) and always get the same issue - everybody gets covered in Sanctuary .

Regardless, I proposed a slight tweak to it at paladins forum, if you think it's fine (a single-target ability).

[Ardanis]

Off the top of my head - you're probably using a secondary AoE projectile. Such a thing doesn't inherit friendly flags from its parent source.

[Demivrgvs]

Off the top of my head - you're probably using a secondary AoE projectile. Such a thing doesn't inherit friendly flags from its parent source.

No, I would have noticed something like that. The main spell (sppa201) has no projectile, it triggers each round on caster the secondary spell (sppa201d), which has a projectile (dvcavshl.pro) flagged to not affect enemies (7). The more I look at it the more it seems fine. o.O

[Mazuo]

BGEE v1.2.2031

 

Finally got Khalid as a Fighter/Mage to level 5 and there seems to be an issue. The level 5 feat of Weapon Training removes his previous longbow and bastard sword levels and just sets everything to 1.

 

Same results with Jaheira a few minutes later.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Mazuo

[Mike1072]

Finally got Khalid as a Fighter/Mage to level 5 and there seems to be an issue. The level 5 feat of Weapon Training removes his previous longbow and bastard sword levels and just sets everything to 1.

 

Same results with Jaheira a few minutes later.

Are you using BGEE?

[Mazuo]

Yes, I am on BGEE. Meant to include that.

[Demivrgvs]

Finally got Khalid as a Fighter/Mage to level 5 and there seems to be an issue. The level 5 feat of Weapon Training removes his previous longbow and bastard sword levels and just sets everything to 1.

Unfortunately this is a known issue I still don't know how to handle. BGEE pretty much ruined this opcode, messing up tons of SR spells too (e.g. Flame Blade, Phantom Blade, Spiritual Hammer, etc.). Now, leaving aside SR, which is even harder to handle imo, if they don't make the opcode work again as it did I have very few options depending on how the opcode behaves, or will behave, with ToBEx.

 

Can someone confirm that Weapon Training still works fine with the latest ToBEx on a non-BGEE install?

 

If the original opcode behaviour cannot be used anymore, the only thing I can do with the modified opcode is to move Weapon Training to a much higher level (10+) because +1 bonus to all proficiencies would make Fighters reach Grandmastery at level 6 instead of 9. That would be a real shame though, because the whole point behind it was to make sure the TF could use different weapons without penalties even at low levels, giving the class more versatility compared to its kits.

[kreso]

Can someone confirm that Weapon Training still works fine with the latest ToBEx on a non-BGEE install?

Yes, it works fine with latest ToBEx. Only EE ruins it.

 

If the original opcode behaviour cannot be used anymore, the only thing I can do with the modified opcode is to move Weapon Training to a much higher level (10+) because +1 bonus to all proficiencies would make Fighters reach Grandmastery at level 6 instead of 9. That would be a real shame though, because the whole point behind it was to make sure the TF could use different weapons without penalties even at low levels, giving the class more versatility compared to its kits.

Imo, the best thing about this ability is it's early gain...it would indeed be a shame to have it removed.

[Mazuo]

Indeed, like it where it is even if I have to use Shadowkeeper to fix what EE broke.

[Darkersun]

So silent here. I will try to make a walkthrough with KR and BG2:EE.

Can't wait to see Bards and Thief revision. Thanks for all this nice work.

[Demivrgvs]

So silent here. I will try to make a walkthrough with KR and BG2:EE.

Can't wait to see Bards and Thief revision. Thanks for all this nice work.

SR is taking precedence right now, but as soon as I'm done with it I just need a bunch of hours to finish packaging b21 (the animal companion stuff has tons of different files). I cannot promise it, but I'll try to release it during this weekend. Edited January 30, 2014 by Demivrgvs